He will reject you forever.

[MacPherson]

1 Chronicles 28:9

9 "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever. NSAB

9`And thou, Solomon, my son, know the God of thy father, and serve Him with a perfect heart, and with a willing mind, for all hearts is Jehovah seeking, and every imagination of the thoughts He is understanding; if thou dost seek Him, He is found of thee, and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever. YLT

[Paul Hazelwood]

Good find


H5703  `ad  ad

from H5710;

properly, a (peremptory) terminus, i.e. (by implication) duration, in the sense
of advance or perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a
preposition):--eternity, ever(- lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without
end.


So which word or phrase in this definition should we use and why?

[WhiteWings]

What if you stop forsaking Him?
If the verse is taken to be taken to literally the grace will never be shown because I think everyone at least once in her life has forsaken Him.

I think the verse simply means: If you push me away, I will push you away too.
(When you stop, I stop too.)

[Paul Hazelwood]

Right, WW   properly, a (peremptory) terminus, i.e. (by implication) duration

[MacPherson]

Right, WW   properly, a (peremptory) terminus, i.e. (by implication) duration

Oh man. I thought I had something good there. Now it's just "this traffic light is taking forever"?  :sigh:

Rotherham's has:
He will cast thee off for ever*
*Or: "for the time to come."

Well, that's great. I guess there's no way an ETer can use that verse. Oh well.

[WhiteWings]

Well......
Do you really think the above will impress an ET?
Blasphemous Paul didn't quote from the only a-u-t-h-o-r-i-s-e-d (speak with hollow dramatic voice) Bible KJV.

I only understand  afraction of what's going on in the Bible (communities) but I think I do clearly understand all agree on 2 points.
a] Everyone that has ever lived has sinned. -> pushing away
b] Geniune belief in Jesus is you way out of trouble.

If at point a] Father declared eternal rejecting then how can b] more than a hollow phrase?

[MacPherson]

Well......
Do you really think the above will impress an ET?

About as much as I believe in leprechauns riding flying pigs.

[sven]

hebrew ad translates one of my translation with 'withness time'

olam ad it translates 'for eon and withness time'

I only have a German link, page 6/21 - maybe it helps

http://www.bibelthemen.eu/gassler/el-olam.pdf

maybe the LXX helps?

kai nun Salwmwn uie mou gnwqi ton qeon twn paterwn sou kai douleue autw en kardia teleia kai yuch qeloush oti pasaV kardiaV etazei kurioV kai pan enqumhma gignwskei ean zhthshV auton eureqhsetai soi kai ean kataleiyhV auton kataleiyei se eiV teloV

kai êan katalêipses auton katalêpsêi sê êis têlos

I think this possibly might mean: and when you forsake him, he will forsake you at the end

I think telos means end or goal, but I just started to "learn" Greek on my own, so don't give anything on my translation.

[MacPherson]

hebrew ad translates one of my translation with 'withness time'

olam ad it translates 'for eon and withness time'

I only have a German link, page 6/21 - maybe it helps

http://www.bibelthemen.eu/gassler/el-olam.pdf

maybe the LXX helps?

kai nun Salwmwn uie mou gnwqi ton qeon twn paterwn sou kai douleue autw en kardia teleia kai yuch qeloush oti pasaV kardiaV etazei kurioV kai pan enqumhma gignwskei ean zhthshV auton eureqhsetai soi kai ean kataleiyhV auton kataleiyei se eiV teloV

kai êan katalêipses auton katalêpsêi sê êis têlos

I think this possibly might mean: and when you forsake him, he will forsake you at the end

I think telos means end or goal, but I just started to "learn" Greek on my own, so don't give anything on my translation.

I myself haven't dug into the Hebrew or Greek yet. What surprised me, is usually when I come to "forever" or "eternal" in the New American Standard translation, I then go to the Young's Literal Translation and find the word "age" or "age-during". Finding an actual "eternal" or "forever" in the Literal Translations is very rare.

[jabcat]

Well......
I only understand  afraction of what's going on in the Bible (communities) but I think I do clearly understand all agree on 2 points.
a] Everyone that has ever lived has sinned. -> pushing away
b] Geniune belief in Jesus is you way out of trouble.

:thumbsup:

[Dallas]

The truth is under the law the jew could decide to reject God, and thats what they did and thats why God removed from them the light and gave it to jesus.

Matthew 21: 33"Listen to another parable. (AD)There was a landowner who (AE)PLANTED A (AF)VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT AND DUG A WINE PRESS IN IT, AND BUILT A TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and (AG)went on a journey.

   34"When the harvest time approached, he (AH)sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce.

   35"The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third.

   36"Again he (AI)sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them.

   37"But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.'

   38"But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.'

   39"They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

   40"Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?"

   41They said to Him, "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and (AJ)will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons."

   42Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures,
         '(AK)THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
         THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;
         THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD,
         AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?

   43"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.

   44"And (AL)he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

   45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.

   46When they sought to seize Him, they (AM)feared the people, because they considered Him to be a (AN)prophet.

[Tim B]

What if you stop forsaking Him?
If the verse is taken to be taken to literally the grace will never be shown because I think everyone at least once in her life has forsaken Him.

I think the verse simply means: If you push me away, I will push you away too.
(When you stop, I stop too.)

You know, thinking about it, it seems that when he pushes us away he only pushes us so as to bring us back. I don't think that he actually forsakes us, but he lets us feel as if he has, so that we wrestle with our sins and eventually come back. Kind of like the "prodigal son.". The Father certainly let his son go, but he was willing to let him come back at any time.

[Dallas]

The verse is, "I will never forsake you or leave you."

This is an old testament quote, it was a promise, and all promises are yes and amen in Christ, (2 Corinthians)

It's a sick and distorted idea that God pushes us away. Would He send His Son to die so He could push you away, seriously?

The phrase is better translated, I will never leave you nor will I let go of you. The idea that he wont let go means he has you, he has grasped you he is holding on to you.... NOT pushing you away.

Come on people, He loves and adores you... he's not some kinda cold shoulder lover who pushes you away to teach you some manners.

[martincisneros]

Come on people, He loves and adores you... he's not some kinda cold shoulder lover who pushes you away to teach you some manners.

I agree, however St. Paul likewise says we're excluded by our own carnal thinking from walking in the light and provisions of God.  Our own thinking can cold shoulder us, even in the most ideal of circumstances with Holy Spirit, His ideal for our mate and/or ministry team, etc.

[Seth]

Come on people, He loves and adores you... he's not some kinda cold shoulder lover who pushes you away to teach you some manners.

I agree, however St. Paul likewise says we're excluded by our own carnal thinking from walking in the light and provisions of God.  Our own thinking can cold shoulder us, even in the most ideal of circumstances with Holy Spirit, His ideal for our mate and/or ministry team, etc.

That's wisdom bro..  :thumbsup:

[Molly]

hebrew ad translates one of my translation with 'withness time'

olam ad it translates 'for eon and withness time'

I only have a German link, page 6/21 - maybe it helps

http://www.bibelthemen.eu/gassler/el-olam.pdf

maybe the LXX helps?

kai nun Salwmwn uie mou gnwqi ton qeon twn paterwn sou kai douleue autw en kardia teleia kai yuch qeloush oti pasaV kardiaV etazei kurioV kai pan enqumhma gignwskei ean zhthshV auton eureqhsetai soi kai ean kataleiyhV auton kataleiyei se eiV teloV

kai êan katalêipses auton katalêpsêi sê êis têlos

I think this possibly might mean: and when you forsake him, he will forsake you at the end

I think telos means end or goal, but I just started to "learn" Greek on my own, so don't give anything on my translation.

if518 thou seek1875 him, he will be found4672 of thee; but if518 thou forsake5800 him, he will cast thee off2186 forever.5704


"forever"

H5704
עד
‛ad
ad
Properly the same as H5703 (used as a preposition, adverb or conjugation; especially with a preposition); as far (or long, or much) as, whether of space (even unto) or time (during, while, until) or degree (equally with): - against, and, as, at, before, by (that), even (to), for (-asmuch as), [hither-] to, + how long, into, as long (much) as, (so) that, till, toward, until, when, while, (+ as) yet.


It doesn't seem to make much sense to me in English, since it looks like it is a dangling conditional.

...he will cast thee off [during/while/until].




37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38See, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again, until...

... you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

--Mat 23

[Tim B]

hebrew ad translates one of my translation with 'withness time'

olam ad it translates 'for eon and withness time'

I only have a German link, page 6/21 - maybe it helps

http://www.bibelthemen.eu/gassler/el-olam.pdf

maybe the LXX helps?

kai nun Salwmwn uie mou gnwqi ton qeon twn paterwn sou kai douleue autw en kardia teleia kai yuch qeloush oti pasaV kardiaV etazei kurioV kai pan enqumhma gignwskei ean zhthshV auton eureqhsetai soi kai ean kataleiyhV auton kataleiyei se eiV teloV

kai êan katalêipses auton katalêpsêi sê êis têlos

I think this possibly might mean: and when you forsake him, he will forsake you at the end

I think telos means end or goal, but I just started to "learn" Greek on my own, so don't give anything on my translation.

if518 thou seek1875 him, he will be found4672 of thee; but if518 thou forsake5800 him, he will cast thee off2186 forever.5704


"forever"

H5704
עד
‛ad
ad
Properly the same as H5703 (used as a preposition, adverb or conjugation; especially with a preposition); as far (or long, or much) as, whether of space (even unto) or time (during, while, until) or degree (equally with): - against, and, as, at, before, by (that), even (to), for (-asmuch as), [hither-] to, + how long, into, as long (much) as, (so) that, till, toward, until, when, while, (+ as) yet.


It doesn't seem to make much sense to me in English, since it looks like it is a dangling conditional.

...he will cast thee off [during/while/until].




37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38See, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again, until...

... you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

--Mat 23

LOL Maybe the entirety of the manuscript was lost and then written down incorrectly.

[Tim B]

hebrew ad translates one of my translation with 'withness time'

olam ad it translates 'for eon and withness time'

I only have a German link, page 6/21 - maybe it helps

http://www.bibelthemen.eu/gassler/el-olam.pdf

maybe the LXX helps?

kai nun Salwmwn uie mou gnwqi ton qeon twn paterwn sou kai douleue autw en kardia teleia kai yuch qeloush oti pasaV kardiaV etazei kurioV kai pan enqumhma gignwskei ean zhthshV auton eureqhsetai soi kai ean kataleiyhV auton kataleiyei se eiV teloV

kai êan katalêipses auton katalêpsêi sê êis têlos

I think this possibly might mean: and when you forsake him, he will forsake you at the end

I think telos means end or goal, but I just started to "learn" Greek on my own, so don't give anything on my translation.

if518 thou seek1875 him, he will be found4672 of thee; but if518 thou forsake5800 him, he will cast thee off2186 forever.5704


"forever"

H5704
עד
‛ad
ad
Properly the same as H5703 (used as a preposition, adverb or conjugation; especially with a preposition); as far (or long, or much) as, whether of space (even unto) or time (during, while, until) or degree (equally with): - against, and, as, at, before, by (that), even (to), for (-asmuch as), [hither-] to, + how long, into, as long (much) as, (so) that, till, toward, until, when, while, (+ as) yet.


It doesn't seem to make much sense to me in English, since it looks like it is a dangling conditional.

...he will cast thee off [during/while/until].




37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38See, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again, until...

... you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

--Mat 23

It's got like a trillion different translations:

Strong's Number:  5704
Original Word   Word Origin
   עד       properly, the same as (05703) (used as prep, adv or conj)
Transliterated Word   Phonetic Spelling
   `ad       ad 
Parts of Speech   TWOT
   N/A       1565c

Definition
    prep
as far as, even to, until, up to, while, as far as
of space
as far as, up to, even to
in combination
from...as far as, both...and (with 'min' - from)
of time
even to, until, unto, till, during, end
of degree
even to, to the degree of, even like conj
until, while, to the point that, so that even

Translated Words
KJV (99) - as long, ; as yet, 99; by, ; hitherto, ; how long, ; when, ;

NAS (235) - account, 1; afar, 1; after, 1; all the way, 1; along, 1; before, 3; beside, 1; beyond, 1; both, 1; completely, 1; either...or, 1; equal, 1; even, 24; even including, 1; exceedingly, 3; extremely, 1; far, 1; forever, 66; forevermore, 1; here, 2; how many, 2; including, 1; like, 2; little while, 1; long, 25; momentary, 1; never, 2; only, 1; or, 9; over, 1; over there, 1; point, 1; reaching, 1; since, 1; so long, 1; still, 1; there, 1; threatened, 1; till, 3; time, 1; toward, 1; unfathomable, 1; until, 43; until the when, 1; utterly, 3; very, 2; violently, 1; when, 1; while, 7; while i was still, 1; within, 1; without, 2; yet, 1; ...

How do some of these even remotely relate to "forever"??

[WhiteWings]

How do some of these even remotely relate to "forever"??

Well, Mr. T, it's quite simple. Define age as endless and it means forever. The age after death lasts forever.
I think that's the reasoning.

[Dallas]

I agree, however St. Paul likewise says we're excluded by our own carnal thinking from walking in the light and provisions of God.  Our own thinking can cold shoulder us, even in the most ideal of circumstances with Holy Spirit, His ideal for our mate and/or ministry team, etc.

- martin

Just because our thinking leads us down some darkened alley doesn't mean that God leaves us. Because of what Jesus did I am included, I can't undo that with any carnality. Carnality is just not that powerful. That doesn't mean I may loose some peace joy and righteousness during periods of my life but it does not mean I am some how excluded for that moment.

God never does anything but hold us as close as we can be, we may not feel that it is that way sometimes, but we are no further from him even though our heart may tell us such... it wasnt our heart that saved us, it was Jesus... and that can't be undone.