Mathew 16:26 How can one LOSE his/her own soul and go to heaven?

[ChosenofGod37]

Good afternoon. Glad to be here.  Gary and I have been having a interesting discussion about this scripture. Although, the discussion has been one sided due to the fact that Gary will not respond to my questions. So, I thought I would give his forum a chance to answer.

Matthew 16:26 " For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits( Loses) his soul?"

Here are the questions and statements that Gary has been alluding:

Gary, can you explain to me why Jesus would say that one can LOSE his/her own soul if He were going to save the very ones who He says will lose their soul by gaining the world?

How can one Lose his/her own soul and go to heaven?

If everyone is going to be saved, is not Jesus contradicting Himself here? That would be a silly thing for Jesus to say if all souls were going to be saved.

I look forward to hearing your response. God bless. :thumbsup: :winkgrin: :winkgrin: :winkgrin:

[Seth]

The meaning of "soul" is important here:

Matthew 16:
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself (the concept of "self" is important to the next phrase), and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life (psuche) shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life (psuche) for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul (psuche)? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

As I said, the concept of SELF is important to understand in relation to how Jesus is using the word "psuche."

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G5590 — Strong
ψυχή

psuchē (psoo-khay')

From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

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Do you see where Jesus says: "He that SAVES his soul, shall lose it, and he that LOSES his soul shall find it?" Well, that would make no sense if you view the soul as being what I was taught as a christian, the soul being our ghost. Nope. The psuche in regard to how Jesus uses it contextually is our SELF. It is the seat of our emotions, our MINDs, our sense of autonomy located in our mind (not brain which is the physical part).

We must lose our SELf we actually gain ourselves, because God gives us the Spirit, which SAVES our selves from sin. When we are in sin our self, our mind, the seat of our emotions, our thoughts, our identifiable being is gone and lost. This is why Jesus said: LET THE DEAD BURY THE DEAD. He was speaking of people who were physically alive, that is physically animated, as being DEAD. What makes them dead? Well, this world of sin.

The salvation of our being, is in the Spirit which delivers us from sin. Paul said that the KINGDOM OF GOD is not in meat or drink (physical manifestations), but the peace and joy of the Holy Spirit. This is why Jesus said that some people standing there listening to him would not taste of death before they see Christ coming in his Kingdom. Think Pentacost. That is the kingdom, peace and joy in the Spirit.

There are two ways to lose our selves/souls: 1) to the world and 2) through the cross.

In the world, we lose our souls/lives IN sin. Through the cross we lose our souls/lives TO sin because our old self/soul/life is crucified with Christ and raised to what Paul called "walking in newness of life." (Romans 6)

Again, in order to GAIN our souls we must LOSE our souls. In other words, we must take up our cross to crucify the flesh with all its passions and lusts, and in doing so we FIND our souls/lives/selves because we are saved BY Christ and IN Christ and THROUGH Christ.

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Seth, thanks for your reply.

I believe this passage teaches an exchange. Let me explain. People want worldly gain. Worldly gain comes with a price. Jesus said you can't serve money and God.  There is a choice. I believe the people who lose their souls are exchanging them for worldly possession that leave you bankrupt spiritually. Another words, they exchanged their souls for a lie ( The World) , rather than losing their life to gain it through Christ.

At the judgment when the people who lost their souls for worldly gain faces the disastrous hell of remorse and suffering for his lost soul, with what will he buy it back from perdition? Nothing.

Aaron

[Seth]

There seems to be two threads. So I'll just post in the other one. It's easier that way.

[peacemaker]

Another words

In other words, not in another words.

You're Welcome!

[Raggedy Anne]

Chosen,

By "Gary" I assume you mean Gary Amirault.   He is likely busy ministering the word of life to those who are hungry and thirsty.  Now why would he drop that to spend time arguing with you?  Seriously.   If you don't believe God is good, that is your problem.  You should study out the matter on your own rather than coming into a forum to stir up contention. 

"For where envying and strife is: there is confusion and  every evil work." [James 3:16]
   

STRIFE IS A KILLER:
The devil knows that envy and strife destroy relationships and long-term friendships. He is aware that if he can create envy and strife between you and the ones you love, he can ruin those special relationships that God intended to be a blessing in your life. Do you have any relationships in your life right now that are under this kind of demonic assault?

The devil doesn't just target relationships or friendships with this type of assault. He also knows how to get in between you and your church family, a ministry you love and support, or even the organization or place of business where you work. The enemy doesn't care whom he divides - he simply wants to divide!

Since envy and strife are some of the tools he uses to do this, it is crucial that you understand how to recognize envy and strife and how to stand against them!

ABOUT ENVY:
In James 3:16, the Bible says:
"For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work."

I want you to notice the word 'envy' in this verse. It is taken from the Greek word 'zeros', and it denotes a fierce desire to promote one's own ideas and convictions to the exclusion of everyone else.

This word 'zeros' is where we get the word 'zealot', which describes a person who is so captivated, obsessed, and fanatical about his own cause that others perceive him as an extremist on the threshold of becoming militant.

In the case of James 3:16, this word presents a picture of a believer who is so obsessed, gripped, and preoccupied with his own view of things that he can't see or hear the view of anyone else. In fact, his militant perspective has made him lopsided in his thinking. He never takes a softer line but holds out until all the other parties admit defeat and agree with his point of view.

Therefore, the word envy in James 3:16 could be translated this way:
"For where there is a fierce desire to promote one's own ideas and convictions to the elimination of everyone else.... "

If this kind of attitude continues, it will naturally lead to the next step in this horrible sequence of events. This is where strife comes into the picture! Notice that James goes on to say, "For where envying and strife is...."

ABOUT STRIFE:
The word 'strife' is taken from the Greek word 'eritheii' - It was used by the ancient Greeks to stand for a 'political party'.

This Greek word is often translated as a 'party spirit' because of its linkage to political systems and political parties. Therefore, in order for us to understand why James used this word, we need to stop and think about the way political parties are formed and how they function.

Political parties are formed by a group of people who have similar values and views. After the party is formed, the participants develop a unified agenda; once the agenda is decided on, they create a platform. From that platform, the people begin to push their agenda and ideas, fighting fiercely to see that their party's platform is accepted and eventually put in the position of ruling and calling the shots.

In the same way, some Christians become so clouded by their ambition to see their own views adopted that they have no tolerance for anyone who sees things differently than they do. These people usually gravitate to other believers who hold similar views.

Once these so-called "like--minded" Christians find each other, they naturally begin to take sides, forming a kind of allegiance. Then they begin to form agendas and develop plans to see their views pushed, promoted, and accepted. As a result, people who once stood shoulder to shoulder often end up standing on different sides of a fight with their relationships ruined and filled with hurt.

When envy and strife have made it this far, the next step in this sequence of events becomes inevitable. James 3:16 continues; "For where envying and strife is, there is confusion"!

HERE COMES THE CONFUSION:
The word 'confusion' is taken from the word 'akatastasia'. It was used in New Testament times to describe civil disobedience, disorder, and anarchy in a city, state, or government.

By using this word, James explicitly tells us that when situations of strife and discord are allowed to persist, an atmosphere of anarchy sets in and begins to destroy the relationships once loved and cherished. Rational thinking is replaced by raw emotions, and people end up getting hurt.

James wants to make sure we understand what this kind of conduct eventually produces if this behavior isn't stopped. He goes on to say, "For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work."

EVIL REARS IT'S UGLY HEAD:
The word 'evil' is from the word 'phaulos' describing something that is terribly bad or exceedingly vile. We get the word 'foul' from this Greek word. James is saying that where envy and strife are permitted to operate, thus producing confusion and anarchy in relationships, they ultimately yield a foul-smelling situation!

These various Greek words in James 3:16 convey this idea:
"For where there is a fierce desire to promote one's own ideas and convictions to the exclusion of everyone else, it produces divisions so great that people end up taking sides and forming differing parties with conflicting agendas. This is a terrible event, because it creates great unrest among people who should be united. Ultimately, the whole situation becomes a stinking mess!"

But understand this: You can help stop this from happening by choosing to consider other people's opinions to be just as important as your own! Instead of pushing your own agenda, why not stop and listen to what others have to say? They may have something powerful to contribute, but if you can't hear them, you'll never benefit from their perspective.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO YIELD TO ENVY AND STRIFE!
When the opportunity for strife arises, you can beat Satan at his own game by choosing to make room for the ideas, thoughts, and opinions of others. Even if you don't agree with what they say, at least you can demonstrate that you value their right to have a differing opinion. By maintaining an attitude of staying on the same side with your fellow believers, you can put the devil on the run and keep your relationships alive, healthy, and long lasting!

[martincisneros]

I don't even understand how a lost soul can be a contradiction to someone needing a Saviour?  Do any of the rest of you?  If Jesus isn't the Saviour of lost souls, what's He the Saviour of, then?  The Pious?  Then the Scriptures should be rewritten to say, "Behold the Lamb of God Who taketh away the sins of the righteous and holy and of those that need no physician!!"  How is the news of the coming of Jesus news that's supposed to be great joy for all people, per the announcement of the angels??  If Jesus doesn't save those that have lost their souls, then Who saved me??  And when did Jesus stop seeking and saving the lost?  Talk about consistent cessationism!!

[martincisneros]

Great post, Raggedy Anne.

[Raggedy Anne]

I don't even understand how a lost soul can be a contradiction to someone needing a Saviour?  Do any of the rest of you?  If Jesus isn't the Saviour of lost souls, what's He the Saviour of, then?  The Pious?  Then the Scriptures should be rewritten to say, "Behold the Lamb of God Who taketh away the sins of the righteous and holy and of those that need no physician!!"  How is the news of the coming of Jesus news that's supposed to be great joy for all people, per the announcement of the angels??  If Jesus doesn't save those that have lost their souls, then Who saved me??  And when did Jesus stop seeking and saving the lost?  Talk about consistent cessationism!!

I was thinking that same thing, Martin.  As Jesus put it, he came for those who are sick and in need of a physician.  Not those who are whole.   

This line of thinking espoused earlier in this thread reminds me of those who I have heard teach that God does not speak to sinners.  I really have heard that from pulpits before!

:-)
Anne

[martincisneros]

If God doesn't speak to sinners, then how are they supposed to have saving faith since faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, per Romans 10 -- the hallmark of Evangelicalism, as far as chapters, besides John 3, which plainly says that the wrath of God abides on unbelievers, but that one may freely choose to believe and come out from under a position of wrath into a place of walking in the light?  Everyone's a child of disobedience, of darkness, etc., until they're brought to the place of embracing His Lordship -- yet the persistence continues that Christ died to create a dual eternity where wickedness has as much right to exist in it's own world as righteousness has the right to exist everywhere else.  I wonder what the conclusion would have been that would have been drawn had 1Corinthians and Romans been the last couple of books of the Bible instead of the book of Revelation since some people think the book of Revelation is "the end."  Wickedness has zero right to exist for eternity!!  ZERO!!!!!

[WhiteWings]

Matthew 16:26 " For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits( Loses) his soul?"

I believe this passage teaches an exchange.

The key is in the words "and"
There is no implied exchange at all.
Just read Job.
Job was very wealthy and kept believing even while very sick. God even rewarded him by doubling his wealth.
Or do you think that was another test....

The verse simply teaches you should avoid getting spiritually poor while getting rich on other things.

[Seth]

WW, that's wisdom brother.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen WW........ :thumbsup: