The Gospel

[arcticmonster2003]

This was not written specifically for Tentmaker, but I believe that the True Gospel, that we are saved by grace through faith is really the best argument against universalism that exists.
I had to divide this as it would not fit in one post.

I am beginning to think that most people have not heard the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I have seen that often people, when asked if they are saved say "I think so" or "I hope so" or "I don't know" or some such thing.. In fact if I remember correctly, in the roman church a person is not even allowed to proclaim their salvation with any assurance, I have read that the roman church actually calls this a "presumptuous sin".



What a horror it will be to be found in unbelief after death, when it is belief that God, by his grace, has chosen as the requirement for salvation.



Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Our salvation is by faith alone - so if one says they are not sure if they are saved, then what faith is that?? The first question that comes into my mind is this:
"Has this person heard the true Gospel?". Because if they have and they have not believed it then they are at that moment still not saved, but if they have heard it and believed it, then they know assuredly that they are saved. Why all the gray area? The Gospel is simple enough that even children can easily understand it.


We are saved by grace, through faith.. So we must believe, this belief is how God has chosed to save us, and if we do believe then we are saved (not that all whom profess belief really believe), but for those whom know in their hearts that they truly believe then if they have heard the true Gospel then they shall know assuredly they are saved. This will be horror for all whom chose not to seek God on this matter, to understand his salvation, when they realize all they had to do to be saved is believe.


1 Corinthians 1:18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


Such cults as the roman church won't even allow a person to believe that they are saved, so they have effectively made the Word of God, even the Gospel itself, of none effect to all whom believe their dogmas. How shall their people be saved by faith, when the roman church calls this saving faith a presumptuous sin!! I am not saying that there are not any people in the roman church whom are not saved by grace through faith (the only way to obtain salvation), but surely they know that their own church would call this assurance of
salvation a heresy. Surely they would leave the roman church very soon after this, seeing how all of their brothers and sisters are being held back from salvation by being denied the true gospel, and being denied by dogmas of achieving a saving faith.


A saving faith says this: I am saved, and nobody is taking that away from me, because this faith  is how God has wholly ordained my salvation by his grace.


Many even think they are going to be saved by their good works, not taking into account that God has chosen faith as the requirement for salvation, the requirement, its not optional. It reminds me of this verse:
Romans 10:3  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Why do I say this, because many out there are doing good work to get "brownie points" in heaven, but when asked if they are saved they "hope so", or "think so", or "not sure yet". So all their good works are being done apart from the faith required, by God, for salvation. Many are doing good works unto false gods and to adhere to false gospels. Somehow the idea that there is one God whom created all that is seen and unseen and that all the enemy has to do to is keep you from serving the true God, this idea seems to confuse
many people. And God's requirement, one and only, is faith.


God chose faith as the requirement for his salvation, and not just the requirement, but that we rely solely on this faith for salvation, accepting salvation as a free gift from God that he has given us by his grace.



Then comes the next part. Faith in what? Faith that the earth spins around the sun? Faith that the pope will call out your name and you will be let into heaven? Faith the Joseph Smith will call out your name and welcome you to heaven? Faith that you were a good enough person? Faith that all roads lead to salvation? Faith that fallen angels and lying spirit guides are giving a true alternative to the salvation offered by God? Faith that fallen angels and nephilim posing as aliens with a different gospel are your real hope? Faith in
lucifer? Faith that your preacher is a godly man and therefor since you attend church every sunday you will get into heaven by knowing him? Faith that fallen angels and nephilim posing as ascended masters have the "real scoop" on what is going on? Faith in a false Jesus whom is not Almighty God, the Creator of all that is seen and unseen?
Anyone whom places faith in any of those things or anyone whom has apathy to their eternal destination is in a very bad state.


The point is that this faith I am speaking of isn't faith in whatever one chooses, but rather it is faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that alone, no mixtures. It is faith in the promises that God has given to us through his Gospel.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, to the True Gospel of salvation, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


It is in the True Gospel of Jesus Christ that your faith must be placed in order to be saved by the grace of God.


Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.


You either freely accept it, or freely reject it.
Firstly, we must know that we are in need of salvation, because people whom don't think they have a problem won't understand why they would need salvation. To show them that all have fallen short of the glory of God, to show them that their "good works" or their "I am a good person" means nothing to God apart from the salvation he has offered through Jesus Christ by his grace, through faith. To tell them that all whom do not accept God's free gift of salvation shall be damned.



Mankind is in a fallen state, and needs to be reconciled to God, this reconciliation can only be done by the way that God has provided. That is by his grace, through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


2 Corinthians 5:18  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of
reconciliation;
19  To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.



Romans 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Isaiah 64:6  ¶But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


Mark 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Put your Faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that alone. Here is the best that I can present the Gospel to you:



Only God could save us, and so God did. Jesus Christ was literally God, the creator of all that is seen and all that is unseen, in the flesh. Jesus Christ was born of a virgin.


Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


John 1:1  ¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2  The same was in the beginning with God.
3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


John 14:8  Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


Isaiah 7:14  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.


Matthew 1:23  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Luke 1:28  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29  And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31  And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36  And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37  For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38  And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.


Jesus Christ was the Messiah.


John 1:41  He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.


Mark 14:60  And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
61  But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62  And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.


Jesus Christ died for our sins.


Isaiah 53:10  ¶Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.


1 Corinthians 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;


Through the blood of Jesus Christ we have remission of sins.


Mark 14:24  And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.


John 19:34  But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.


Romans 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Ephesians 1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


Ephesians 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


Colossians 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.


Hebrews 9:22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


1 Peter 1:19  But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:


1 John 5:8  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Revelation 1:5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

[arcticmonster2003]

continued:



Jesus Christ died for our sins and was raised again on the third day.


Matthew 28:1  ¶In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2  And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3  His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4  And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5  And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6  He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7  And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
8  And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
9  And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.


Mark 10:32  ¶And they were in the way going up to Jerusalem; and Jesus went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid. And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what things should happen unto him,
33  Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:
34  And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.


1 Corinthians 15:12  ¶Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Corinthians 15:13  But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:


There shall be a judgement.



Romans 2:16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


All whom believe will be saved and salvation is by faith alone, lest any man should boast.



Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12  ¶For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16  But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.



Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Every person is saved only by their faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, don't let anyone take your assurance of salvation from you. Believe the Gospel, and keep believing, even to death. All whom believe will be saved, so believe. Don't let your faith be wavering like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Believe!! This is where all whom say, of their salvation that they are "not sure" or "don't know" or "hope so" have a serious problem.


Faith says "I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I believe the promises of God, I am Saved!!


1 Timothy 5:12  Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.


There shall be a resurrection of all, some to eternal life (those whom are saved) and some to eternal damnation, and if one thinks they have "done good" but have not believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ then they are in a horrific state.


John 5:28  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Romans 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


The finished work of Jesus Christ.


John 19:30  When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Ok, so if you believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that Jesus Christ, whom is Almighty God, the maker of all that is seen and unseen came in the flesh and died on the cross, so that he is the propitiation for our sins through faith in his blood, that is, we have remission of sins through his blood, and are reconciled unto God through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, freely justified, and you believe Jesus Christ was resurrected on the third day, and you believe in the finished work of the cross to save you from eternal damnation and believe that you will be raised again to eternal life by Jesus Christ by grace, through faith. Then you are saved, you have come to God on his terms, if you I believe it. Believe it!! You, after hearing the Gospel, either freely accept it or freely reject it.



Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.



God knows whom believes and whom does not. I cannot tell anyone that they are saved, because I do not know whom believes and whom does not, thus these verses:


Romans 10:6  But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7  Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



But if you do believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then YOU know that you believe, therefore YOU know that YOU are saved.


The scriptures speak of many things, but this writing is just about the Gospel, about salvation.


Some might say, what about being baptized? I say, yes, get baptized, after you believe the Gospel and are saved by faith. If you don't believe the Gospel then what do you think getting baptized will do for you? We are saved by faith, Faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, his blood shed for us and his ressurection, his finished work of the cross. Getting baptized is something you do AFTER you are saved
by faith, in obedience to God.


Acts 8:36  And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37  And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38  And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


Some might say, you have to keep the commandments that Jesus Christ gave us in the New Testament scriptures to be saved. I say, get saved, by your faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then learn the commandments that Jesus Christ gave us in the New Testament.
Following all of the New Testament commandments will not help the soul whom does not believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And don't forget that we are under grace, and don't confuse good works with salvation. Good works are great, but apart from salvation through the Gospel of Jesus Christ what shall they profit you? Once we are saved God will free you from all of those bonds of sin, keep repenting every time you fall short, keep praying to be freed from every snare of sin, you are under grace, he will change you
completely, but all of this occurs while you are saved, not to work up to being saved, this is where I have really learned what his grace really means.



Some will say that repentance is the first step. Again, if you don't believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, what good do you think your repentance shall profit you? First believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then, after you are saved by grace, through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of your sins.


Some will say that they are christians, but believe many others, whom aren't saved through the Gospel of Jesus Christ will probably go to heaven as well, in other words they believe that others are saved apart from the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Little do they realize that they, in other words are saying, that Jesus Christ died in vain, they are saying his death, burial, and resurrection was not needed for all, thus, really wasn't needed for anyone, just "one way to get there". They have made the gospel of none effect. Jesus Christ made it very
clear, he said:


John 10:9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.



Matthew 7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15  ¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.



The truth is, all roads lead to Rome, only one leads out, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


(and remember, even if some fallen angels and nephilim or demons pretending to be aliens or ascended masters or spirit guides bring a different gospel, remember this verse: Galatians 1:8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.)



And remember, a Holy Angel will always point you towards Jesus Christ and the everlasting Gospel.


And by the way, I am saved, by grace, through faith.


Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.


You either freely accept it, or freely reject it. I plead with all whom might read this email to accept it. And remember God's terms for salvation =  FAITH in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Don't try to make your own terms and attempt to establish your own righteousness.
God has only asked you to believe, so believe!!


1 Corinthians 1:23  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25  Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26  For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27  But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29  That no flesh should glory in his presence.


John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20  For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21  But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.



This is the best that I can currently present the gospel. Believe!!!


I hope this has been a blessing and if you think I did a good job of presenting the True Gospel of Jesus Christ then please feel free to forward this email to others.


Travis

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Arcticmonster, what has happened to you to cause you to fall from walking and hearing in the SPIRIT as you once did, to try to hide under the rocks (letter)? Love to you in Him, Card

[Paul Hazelwood]

This is where people fool themselves, Gods character is LOVE  and it either succeeds or it fails and if it is a failure, then there is no God worth giving a crap about anyway.

[martincisneros]

Universalism is salvation by grace thru faith -- that's why the message of Universalism's a bit too nursery school for me.  I'm sorry you've fallen from grace, arcticmonster, and have gone shipwrecked.  I know that's strong, serious words to use right now and I'd better be right about 'em.  But I am.  The Bible leaves no wiggle room -- He's the Saviour of all men, or of no men and we've all been damned from the foundation of the world.  Arcticmonster, I'd encourage you to read some of my previous posts via the link at the bottom of my profile that's available by clicking on my username on the left of this post, 'cause I've been unbelievably transparent, per the Holy Spirit's leading, about stuff going on in my own life that would be the basis for my being able to authoritatively say what I've just said. 

I'd encourage you to do a 50 to 60 day fast, and on your fast, obviously spend time in thanksgiving and worship, but ask Lord Jesus each day of the fast whether or not He's the Saviour of all men without the "and," "if," or "but."  And see what He says.  Not what Churches and Pastors have to say, but what the Living Jesus would say.  I challenge you to press in that hard for His answer, so that as St. Paul in Galatians 1, you won't be receiving it of men, but by revelation of Jesus Christ as it pleases the Father to at long last reveal Jesus Christ within YOU.  The Holy Spirit is more than willing to Personally take you back thru the Bible.  I hope you've got a spiritual father that prays and lets the Word of Christ dwell in them richly in all wisdom, but if you're really growing with Him, then there will likely be 4 subjects you'll differ with even the greatest among men right now regarding.  I won't say what the other 3 are, but obviously these discussion boards are devoted to one of them.

I'll be brazen enough to say that you're not yet a grown man until you've done a several week fast 'cause whether preparation for a ministry like Jesus' ministry, or preparation for marriage, which is essentially Biblically the exact same thing, you're not prepared by the Holy Ghost without it.  I found out recently that I threw the plan of God for my life off by over 12 years by not having obeyed Him about a really extended fast.  I embraced His Lordship fully January 1, 1990 at midnight in a revival meeting conducted by Dwight Thompson at Calvary Cathedral in Fort Worth, Texas that's pastored by Bob Nichols.  Lord Jesus began dealing with me about the 40 day fast IMMEDIATELY, and I'd do many 3 and 4 day fasts, including absolute fasts of 1 to 5 days.  Cumulative wasn't good enough, apparently.  Had to be all in one bang. 

I won't even go into details here about the harm that I not only caused myself but others with not having obeyed Him on that to let Him fully bring the Man, Christ Jesus, out of me.  Not another person on the whole planet was in the Written Word more than me all of those years.  I would have understood UR by 1995 (instead of 2001) and had His Choice for my bride by 1997, instead of going thru the last 12 years that I went thru instead.  You're dealing with too many Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers at these boards, together with folks of the other gifts mentioned in 1Corinthians 12, Romans 12, 1Timothy, and Titus -- too many of us [formerly] opposed the truth of Universal Recovery for too many years with the gnashing of teeth of Saul of Tarsus. 

Don't make it this doctrine or that one, but go after Him.  And I'm not opposed to doctrine.  You'll find few men ANYWHERE whose minds are as systematically Biblical as mine.  But the dangers of trodding under foot the Blood are as genuine for you as for any of us here, to where He'd have to deal with someone like that as He describes in the Old Testament where He was going to redeem those He was esteeming reprobate and said things to the effect of "you'll never again open your mouths when I get done with you!" 

Why is often the most anointed music utterly impossible to divorce from our paradigm of the inescapable, never failing, love of God?  Songs by Petra such as "Song of Moses," "Ancient of Days," "Creed," or songs like "The Love of God," "Joy To The World," or songs by Newsboys like "In Wonder."  You deeply fear we're wrong, but you've not yet announced your prayer meeting that you've gathered to really believe God that Jesus wouldn't be the Saviour of the whole world.  I've yet to hear the ET song that's genuinely anointed of His Spirit.  Yet, if it's the unchangable counsel of His Will, then why aren't the Psalmists busting out with the occasional somber melody of His limitless wrath, utter hatred of the wicked (which goes with your paradigm, if you've gone dishonest on yourself -- read what you'd esteem classics of what you're presenting, Arcticmonster -- the defenders of damnation, such as Edwards, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, et. al.), etc.?? 

It winds up being songs like Carman's song "Lord of All" that make you nearly wanna peel your skin off in such a fit before the Lord, to dance as David danced, -- and the song's not about Him being Lord of a few, of some, of many, of an elect chosen by grace to damn all of the rest, etc.  Why are the best, most powerfully anointed songs about the triumph of the Lord over all of Creation, and absolutely all of Creation singing His praises, revealing His Majesty, et. al.??  Why is it songs like "Everything Cries Holy" or Rich Mullen's song "Creed," (different song from Petra's by the same name) that bring both saints and sinners to their knees before Him??  By your paradigm, taken to it's logical conclusion, then all of the songs I've mentioned are "THE lie" and must be combatted with everything you've got!

Trying to be more thorough, but my computer's begging for a reboot 'cause of updates that were installed, so since it's becoming increasingly more and more insistent, I'll let it shut me down here for a few, lest I get too deeply involved with a post and it decides to do it anyway before I've hit the post button.  And with the broadband connection, you know that's about 20 minutes.  Probably read Song of Solomon while I'm waiting to be back online :bgdance:  As always, hoping the typos aren't bad.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, Martin.........