found this...

[Andromeda_Organa]

This false teaching comes from various words used in the Old Testament. Some Christians try to convince themselves that the words Hades or Sheoul are not really talking about hell but refer to the grave or death. In the gospel of Mark Jesus quoted the prophet Isaiah directly on hell. (Old Testament)

"Where their worm will never die and their fire will never be put out" - Isaiah 66 / Mark 9

In the Old Testament Job refers to hell as the "gates of sheol" and Jesus calls it "the gates of hell".

Christians that tell people hell does not exist are in danger of being sent to hell themselves. The Bible states in Revelation that "all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire". When you tell people that hell does not exist you are contradicting Christ's own words.

"I am tormented in this flame" - Luke 16
"How shall you escape the damnation of hell?" - Matthew 23

[WhiteWings]

"Where their worm will never die and their fire will never be put out" - Isaiah 66 / Mark 9
Gehenna/garbage dump

"In the Old Testament Job refers to hell as the "gates of sheol" and Jesus calls it "the gates of hell".
-> It's translated as hell. The word is Hades.


Christians that tell people hell does not exist are in danger of being sent to hell themselves. The Bible states in Revelation that "all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire". When you tell people that hell does not exist you are contradicting Christ's own words.
-> A liar is someone who on purpose doesn't tell the truth.
A Christian that is wrong is just wrong. And not by definition a liar.

"I am tormented in this flame" - Luke 16
"How shall you escape the damnation of hell?" - Matthew 23
-> heel=Gehenna

[sven]

"hell" in the book of Job:

Job 14:13

Oh that thou wouldest hide me in Sheol, that thou wouldest keep me secret until thine anger be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me, --

"grave" in the KJV

Job 3:11-19

Wherefore did I not die from the womb, -- come forth from the belly and expire? Why did the knees meet me? and wherefore the breasts, that I should suck?  For now should I have lain down and been quiet; I should have slept: then had I been at rest, With kings and counsellors of the earth, who build desolate places for themselves,  Or with princes who had gold, who filled their houses with silver; Or as a hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants that have not seen the light. There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the wearied are at rest. The prisoners together are at ease; they hear not the voice of the taskmaster. The small and great are there, and the bondman freed from his master.

the gates of "hell"

Isaiah 38:10

I said, In the meridian of my days I shall go to the gates of Sheol: I am deprived of the rest of my years.

"grave" in the KJV

Matthew 16:18

And *I* also, I say unto thee that *thou* art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it.

(quotations from Darby's translation)

Matthew 16:18 in another translation (Complete Jewish Bible)

I also tell you this: you are Kefa," [which means `Rock,'] "and on this rock I will build my Community, and the gates of Sh'ol will not overcome it.

they always mix up sheol and gehenna and Job does not say anything about the gates of sheol as I remember, only in Isaiah 38:10 where the KJV has "grave"

[preistsplace]

some translations alsohave Jonah in hell(sheol) instead of in the belly of the fish.

[firstborn888]

some translations alsohave Jonah in hell(sheol) instead of in the belly of the fish.

Bill Wiese uses that story for verification of his story that people can go to hell and get out!. Ironic, no?

To me it's obvious that Jonah is simply saying "I'm as good as dead!"  :thumbsup:

[Andromeda_Organa]

some translations alsohave Jonah in hell(sheol) instead of in the belly of the fish.

Bill Wiese uses that story for verification of his story that people can go to hell and get out!. Ironic, no?

To me it's obvious that Jonah is simply saying "I'm as good as dead!"  :thumbsup:

wasn't Jonah inside a fish?

[martincisneros]

Yes, he was inside a great fish that was within the passage likewise likened to "Hell."  "Hell" is never mistranslated as "fish" in anything I've ever seen, although a few words are mistranslated as "fish" that can mean vegetables and other stuff, such as opsarion and ichthys as a casual study of their usage regarding Socrates and Pythagoras will clearly/easily demonstrate since they were both vegetarians.  Pythagoras supposedly multiplied bread and "fish," though he was a rawfood vegan.  Raw bread is possible as any rawfoodist would know, but he wouldn't make his body a tomb for anyone!  Jesus cited the Jonah passage not to indicate He'd be in the grave, which breaks down under the pressure of His body not having been cast out to sea.  He was indicating that at death, He went STRAIGHT DOWN and was surrounded by the gates of Hell, as Jonah was after he died and then rose from the dead after praising God 3 days later.  Some people think his "gates of Hell" reference in Jonah simply means the great fish's rib cage, but dude was killed and pickled by that fish's stomach enzymes! roflol :laughing7:

[chuckt]

This false teaching comes from various words used in the Old Testament. Some Christians try to convince themselves that the words Hades or Sheoul are not really talking about hell but refer to the grave or death. In the gospel of Mark Jesus quoted the prophet Isaiah directly on hell. (Old Testament)

"Where their worm will never die and their fire will never be put out" - Isaiah 66 / Mark 9

In the Old Testament Job refers to hell as the "gates of sheol" and Jesus calls it "the gates of hell".

Christians that tell people hell does not exist are in danger of being sent to hell themselves. The Bible states in Revelation that "all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire". When you tell people that hell does not exist you are contradicting Christ's own words.

"I am tormented in this flame" - Luke 16
"How shall you escape the damnation of hell?" - Matthew 23

tell it like it is,

the lake of fire is NOT hell/hades, as hades can NOT be cast into itself.

The word hell has done much harm, even mixing the judment of gehenna and the judgment if hades thinking they be the same.


babel= confusion by mixing.

peace
chuckt

[firstborn888]

some translations alsohave Jonah in hell(sheol) instead of in the belly of the fish.

Bill Wiese uses that story for verification of his story that people can go to hell and get out!. Ironic, no?

To me it's obvious that Jonah is simply saying "I'm as good as dead!"  :thumbsup:

wasn't Jonah inside a fish?

Yes, and that's why he would think and say "I'm as good as dead". Of course a human could not naturally survive that long in a large fish's stomach.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Who is Bill Wiese and what led him to conclude that people in 'hell' can get out?

Also, read a Jewish thing somewhere that stated that Jonah was bleached white from the stomach acids of the whale, and so the deposit on dry land of this 'white man' in a middle eastern world also shook up the inhabitants of Ninevah, as well. Blessings....

[firstborn888]

:cloud9: Who is Bill Wiese and what led him to conclude that people in 'hell' can get out?

He's the author of the best selling book "23 minutes in hell". In fact - it was on the book stand at the pharmacy when I went to buy meds for my daughter the other day!

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=3173.0

[Shadow]

:cloud9: Who is Bill Wiese and what led him to conclude that people in 'hell' can get out?

He's the author of the best selling book "23 minutes in hell". In fact - it was on the book stand at the pharmacy when I went to buy meds for my daughter the other day!

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=3173.0

It's made it's way across the internet and christian bookshops like some kind of unstoppable plague and scourge, you can't join any type of christian message board without some people thinking it's gospel truth

The thing is though...that book (or rather should I say clip that I saw) is what eventually led me on a search...and how I landed up on the tentmaker site and forum...its the type of thing that leads to more questions than answers...questions I was able to suppress but was no longer able to and had to address

A few years ago I purchased Mary Baxter's book, even when I could defend ET I found even then I just couldn't read that book and wanted it out of my house, and I was the type of person that like horror movies, but that was too much for me, judging by the clip I think BW is even worse than MB

I can't but help wonder if it's one of those things that....

1Ti 1:4  Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

[firstborn888]

The thing is though...that book (or rather should I say clip that I saw) is what eventually led me on a search...and how I landed up on the tentmaker site and forum...its the type of thing that leads to more questions than answers...questions I was able to suppress but was no longer able to and had to address

Yep - fear mongering eventually backfires

[Andromeda_Organa]

The thing is though...that book (or rather should I say clip that I saw) is what eventually led me on a search...and how I landed up on the tentmaker site and forum...its the type of thing that leads to more questions than answers...questions I was able to suppress but was no longer able to and had to address

Yep - fear mongering eventually backfires

It backfired on me too- I actually LEFT the church for awhile b/c of it!