Could these be one and the same?

[gregoryfl]

I noticed in my study recently of Daniel's account of the heavenly vision, which is repeated in Revelation, that the throne is said to be fire, and that a river of fire comes out from him, from his throne.

Dan 7:9  I watched until thrones were set up and the Ancient One, who has lived for endless years, sat down. His clothes were as white as snow and the hair on his head was like pure wool. His throne was fiery flames, and its wheels were burning fire.
Dan 7:10  A river of fire flowed. It came from him. Thousands and thousands served him. Ten thousand times ten thousand were stationed in front of him. The court convened, and the books were opened.

When I read of the account in Revelation, this time a river of water of life is seen coming from his throne:

Rev 22:1  The angel showed me a river filled with the water of life, as clear as crystal. It was flowing from the throne of God and the lamb.

So I got to meditating on this, and it was like the Lord told me that the fire and water are the same thing, it is the same river flowing from him, the fire for the destruction of anything ungodly and the purification of what is of God, while the water is for the nourishment and life of all that is of God.

What do you all think?

Ron

[jabcat]

I think it's worth shoutin' over.

[Beloved Servant]

Let it be!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi; yes, He showed me a vision and told me that fire and water are the same as in, the 'waters' above the firmament, are fire. This is why the tongues of fire came upon their heads in Pentecost; the mind of Christ/new heavens are created from/of this fire. Blessings....

[preistsplace]

agreed and fire and water serve the samepurpose for the Israelites as far as cleansing the spoils gained in war before allowing them into the city.....

[gregoryfl]

Yes, thanks for the replies and confirmations. I was also thinking based on your comment, that the very word in Hebrew for heavens is Shamayim, made up of the shin, representative of fire in the shortened form of the hebrew word ash, and mayim, the word for waters. Heaven is fire and water together, the very presence of our Creator.

Ron

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Didn't know that; loved that!  :thumbsup: Blessings....

[gregoryfl]

And as I was digging around a house treating for termites, I had these other thoughts as the Lord and I talked together, spurred by this comment from a sister:

Rose sent me this message, from another message board I am on, giving further insight into this:


Rose wrote:
Very good insights Ron!

Have you also noticed Rev. 4:5 and Rev. 15:2?

    Rev. 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightning's and thundering and voices: and [there were]seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.


    Rev. 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

God Bless

Rose

It appears as though these seven lamps of fire, the seven spirits of God, God's spirit in completeness being likened to fire, and then then the sea of glass, speaking of calmness, with fire in it.

And yet another correlation...

Rev 4:5 Lightning, noise, and thunder came from the throne. Seven flaming torches were burning in front of the throne. These are the seven spirits of God.
Rev 4:6 In front of the throne, there was something like a sea of glass as clear as crystal.


Rev 22:1 The angel showed me a river filled with the water of life, as clear as crystal. It was flowing from the throne of God and the lamb.

Rev. 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:

Perhaps this is the meaning of what Jesus spoke of when he said:

Luk 3:16 John replied to all of them, "I baptize you with water. But the one who is more powerful than I is coming. I am not worthy to untie his sandal straps. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

I have been taught that the baptism with the Holy Spirit was the good baptism, and the one with fire is the destructive, bad one we don't want. However, I have come to see that they are one and the same. God's spirit is both water AND fire, and we have been baptized in both.

While it is easy to only think of fire as destructive, and in a negative light, like you said, it purifies. In fact, that is the Greek word for fire, pur, where we get our English word pure from. It only consumes and destroys what is consumable, things not of God. At the same time it purifies that which is not consumable, things which are of God. And the best news of all is, we are of God!

As I was doing my termite job, another insight came to me I wanted to share that really hit home with me. Remember this verse I shared earlier?

Rev 4:5 And from the throne proceeded lightnings, and the sound of thunders; and seven lamps of fire were burning before his throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev 4:6 And before the throne, as it were a sea of glass like crystal;

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were, a sea of glass mixed with fire.

I asked the Lord, what is the significance of the sea being as glass? My mind went to a sea that was totally calm. Imagine if you saw such a sight. Would it not look like glass? A sea, normally turbulent and restless, in total peace and rest.

The sea of glass along with the fire pictures the amazing fact that, despite all the fiery trials that we go through, which serves to reveal the gold (picturing God's nature) that we possess, we are at peace, in total and utter rest, like a sea of glass.

The rest of humanity is likened to a sea as well, only they are described in this way:

Isa 57:20 But the wicked are like the churning sea. It isn't quiet, and its water throws up mud and slime.
Isa 57:21 "There is no peace for the wicked," says my God.
Jud 1:13 Their shame is like the foam on the wild waves of the sea.

Each of us has our own fire to go through, yet in it all, you read of this sea of glass, this total peace, as we drink of life's water free. There is peace in the midst of the fire. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did so literally, in shadow. We do today, in reality.

Ron

[Molly]

Beautiful, Ron!  The smooth glass contains the fire.  It is the support under the feet of the saints.

27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

--John 14

[aspiring son]

And as I was digging around a house treating for termites, I had these other thoughts as the Lord and I talked together, spurred by this comment from a sister:

Rose sent me this message, from another message board I am on, giving further insight into this:


Rose wrote:
Very good insights Ron!

Have you also noticed Rev. 4:5 and Rev. 15:2?

    Rev. 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightning's and thundering and voices: and [there were]seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.


    Rev. 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

God Bless

Rose

It appears as though these seven lamps of fire, the seven spirits of God, God's spirit in completeness being likened to fire, and then then the sea of glass, speaking of calmness, with fire in it.

And yet another correlation...

Rev 4:5 Lightning, noise, and thunder came from the throne. Seven flaming torches were burning in front of the throne. These are the seven spirits of God.
Rev 4:6 In front of the throne, there was something like a sea of glass as clear as crystal.


Rev 22:1 The angel showed me a river filled with the water of life, as clear as crystal. It was flowing from the throne of God and the lamb.

Rev. 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:

Perhaps this is the meaning of what Jesus spoke of when he said:

Luk 3:16 John replied to all of them, "I baptize you with water. But the one who is more powerful than I is coming. I am not worthy to untie his sandal straps. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

I have been taught that the baptism with the Holy Spirit was the good baptism, and the one with fire is the destructive, bad one we don't want. However, I have come to see that they are one and the same. God's spirit is both water AND fire, and we have been baptized in both.

While it is easy to only think of fire as destructive, and in a negative light, like you said, it purifies. In fact, that is the Greek word for fire, pur, where we get our English word pure from. It only consumes and destroys what is consumable, things not of God. At the same time it purifies that which is not consumable, things which are of God. And the best news of all is, we are of God!

As I was doing my termite job, another insight came to me I wanted to share that really hit home with me. Remember this verse I shared earlier?

Rev 4:5 And from the throne proceeded lightnings, and the sound of thunders; and seven lamps of fire were burning before his throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev 4:6 And before the throne, as it were a sea of glass like crystal;

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were, a sea of glass mixed with fire.

I asked the Lord, what is the significance of the sea being as glass? My mind went to a sea that was totally calm. Imagine if you saw such a sight. Would it not look like glass? A sea, normally turbulent and restless, in total peace and rest.

The sea of glass along with the fire pictures the amazing fact that, despite all the fiery trials that we go through, which serves to reveal the gold (picturing God's nature) that we possess, we are at peace, in total and utter rest, like a sea of glass.

The rest of humanity is likened to a sea as well, only they are described in this way:

Isa 57:20 But the wicked are like the churning sea. It isn't quiet, and its water throws up mud and slime.
Isa 57:21 "There is no peace for the wicked," says my God.
Jud 1:13 Their shame is like the foam on the wild waves of the sea.

Each of us has our own fire to go through, yet in it all, you read of this sea of glass, this total peace, as we drink of life's water free. There is peace in the midst of the fire. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did so literally, in shadow. We do today, in reality.

Ron

Yes very inspiring.  It's funny how God uses what appears to be opposites, like water and fire as the same; a purifier of the spirit. Standing on the sea of glass mingled with fire is a testimony of overcoming the wicked one.

The fire is are trial, while the living water is our refreshment to keep us from getting dehydrated in the trial, giving us the pure spiritual nourishment we need to press forward.

Brandon

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Ron........good post........ :thumbsup:........another thought; water cleanses, but fire purifies/sterilizes in the natural. There's also a correlation with salt, as Jewish babies were rubbed with salt the 8th day, and given their new name/nature, and as salt BURNS..........Blessings....

[Redlettervoice]

agreed and fire and water serve the samepurpose for the Israelites as far as cleansing the spoils gained in war before allowing them into the city.....

I dreamed of winding up the water hose on my Father's house one
time, you know, round and round, to hang it on the side, and
suddenly instead of a waterhose, it was an electrical conduit thingy.

So .......I'd agree with that.

[reFORMer]

The outer court of the tabernacle/temple dealt with sin through the water in the laver and the fire in the altar.

Discounting dark matter and dark energy, 90% of matter is in giant clouds of methane and hydrogen at temperatures near absolute zero.  The remaining 10% is in stars that are inconceivably hot.  Only a tiny fraction exists for but a moment on fragile dust frames at 98.6 degrees.  We are, what is it? about 3/4 water and are burning at 98.6 degrees.  "...a sea of glass mingled with fire..." (Rv 15:2) I ask the same question:  "Could these be one and the same?"

I have seen the spirit of a man as liquid crystal colored as the colors of the body of the man, only transparent.  I've seen spirit beings that appeared in the physical realm with transparent bodies like liquid crystal and all of one color.  One was yellow.

I've had visions of the coming move of God.  Some are already ascending in the currents from it.  The figures used were a giant "tsunami" of the Spirit and a giant hurricane of fire.  Water and fire are images of the God as Spirit.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I've seen the liquid crystal too, reFORMer.......... :thumbsup: Blessings....

[sheila]

  Beuatiful thread;

   It brought to my mind SOE 29  God is telling Enoch how

   He creates the heavenly troops;

   And for all the heavenly troops I imaged the image and

  essence of FIRE,and my eye looked at the very frim hard ROCK

   and from the gleam of my eye the LIGHTENING received it's

   wonderful nature,which is ;

  BOTH FIRE IN WATER AND WATER IN FIRE, AND

  ONE DOES NOT PUT OUT THE OTHER, NOR

  DOES THE ONE DRY UP THE OTHER,THEREFORE

   THE LIGHTENING IS BRIGHTER THAN THE SUN

  SOFTER THAN WATER AND FIRMER THAN HARD ROCK

   AND FROM THE ROCK[our God is a rock]

   I CUT OFF A GREAT FIRE, AND FROM THE FIRE I CREATED

THE ORDERS OF THE INCORPEAL TEN TROOPS OF ANGELS


         Sheila

[sheila]

 Cardinal and Reformer;

  You are the secound and third ones to wittness this to me. A

brother declared the very same thing several years back.

   I receive it as the truth in Spirit that it is.

                                 :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

I've had visions of the coming move of God.  Some are already ascending in the currents from it.  The figures used were a giant "tsunami" of the Spirit and a giant hurricane of fire.  Water and fire are images of the God as Spirit.

:cloud9: ReFORMer, I never caught this the first time I read it.......what you just described, the giant 'tsunami' of Spirit, I have seen before. I saw it in a dream the Lord gave me for my mother to bring repentance; it was a 30 foot wave of water, getting ready to hit her HOUSE.

It was judgment to the flesh that was coming to her, she did not repent, and she died. The 30 fold realm speaks of those that would betray Him (by staying in the realm of judgment to the flesh, ie. walking in the flesh); Judas betrayed Him for 30 pieces of silver, and hung himself (suffocation's just like drowning in principle;loss of spirit/breath).

They which insist on staying in this realm walking in the flesh, instead of walking in the Spirit, betray the Spirit. The Lord knew such as would betray Him. We all start out in this realm, but for our silver He gives us gold, as we learn to walk in the Spirit of what He gives us, and obediently lay down that which offends.

I see what you saw as coming judgment of the two standing in the field/world; the one that is left standing is in the "strong tower" ,ie. the whirlwind/pillar of fire that catches the Spirit man up, but doesn't harm his flesh (the second death had none effect).

The one that is not left standing is the one that didn't get in the "strong tower", and so in not laying down his life, lost it (harmed of second death). In the days of Noah, only the wicked left the earth; the righteous were RAISED UP above it. Blessings....

[Raggedy Anne]

Wow!  Water and fire!   These both speak of the blood of the Lamb.  Whew!   :bgdance:

Anne