Is That REALLY Loving??

[Tim B]

For Calvinists: is it REALLY loving if an all powerful being brings creatures into existence and only intends to save a few of them?

For Arminians: is it REALLY loving if an all knowing being brings creatures into existence knowing that most will reject him and be lost forever?

Christians in general: is it REALLY loving if you tell people to love YOU - OR ELSE?!? And, on another thought, is it even possible to truly love a person who threatens you in such a way?

I'm beginning to realize, I think, that any such view of a being is not truly loving.

[sparrow]

No.
No.
No. and No.

:happygrin:

[NinjaWizards777]

I agree...none of that is loving by any standard. I think the problem is though, is that most other Christians blame ANY thing they dont understand as just that "Gods ways are higher than ours". So anything that violates every sense of logic and morality to them is simply trumped on that...I know because I used to do that.

While I can agree with that in essence, His ways are higher, I think if His ways are so much higher than ours that they arent even on the same plain of morality...then as humans we cant even base any morals around God. Because any perception of perfect love or justice (that God hardwired in our being) we can have, is totally different from Gods ideas of them. In which case, we would all just be screwed anyway.

really absurd if you think about it. and it also makes "let us make man in our likeness and our image" completely meaningless

[Tim B]

I agree...none of that is loving by any standard. I think the problem is though, is that most other Christians blame ANY thing they dont understand as just that "Gods ways are higher than ours". So anything that violates every sense of logic and morality to them is simply trumped on that...I know because I used to do that.

While I can agree with that in essence, His ways are higher, I think if His ways are so much higher than ours that they arent even on the same plain of morality...then as humans we cant even base any morals around God. Because any perception of perfect love or justice (that God hardwired in our being) we can have, is totally different from Gods ideas of them. In which case, we would all just be screwed anyway.

really absurd if you think about it. and it also makes "let us make man in our likeness and our image" completely meaningless

It's almost like the extreme sceptic who says, "You can't positively know anything."
To refute them, all you must do is ask, "Then how do you positively KNOW you can't KNOW anything?"

If our morals cannot be trusted because God's ways are higher than ours, so obviously is his knowledge infinitely higher than ours, and it might be argued that we cannot even trust that our "knowledge" - that says his ways are higher than our ways - is even a knowledgeable statement! At least, I hope that makes sense.  :bigGrin:

Whether my example follows or not, you definitely made an excellent point, NW!  :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

God is a mystery
1 Corinthians 2:7    But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

That's hidden wisdom. :HeartThrob:
1 Corinthians 2:7   But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

You are a URatic so don't speak about things you don't know!

Nope
2 Corinthians 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


That's basicly the answers you will get...
Build a doctrine with lots of fantasy, twisting, bending and streching verses.
When you can't iron out a certain inconsitancy explain that part with 'mystery verses'.

[Seth]

For Calvinists: is it REALLY loving if an all powerful being brings creatures into existence and only intends to save a few of them?

For Arminians: is it REALLY loving if an all knowing being brings creatures into existence knowing that most will reject him and be lost forever?

Christians in general: is it REALLY loving if you tell people to love YOU - OR ELSE?!? And, on another thought, is it even possible to truly love a person who threatens you in such a way?

I'm beginning to realize, I think, that any such view of a being is not truly loving.

And all you have to do is check their doctrine against 1 Corinthians 13:4-5 to see how they stack up.

[Redlettervoice]

My people are destroyed for the lack of the knowledge OF GOD.

Even the errors that we have made in life and God has "redeemed" us
from by His Love, give "us" the wherewith to LOVE others!!! With
the "same" comfort by which we are comforted. 

[legoman]

For Calvinists: is it REALLY loving if an all powerful being brings creatures into existence and only intends to save a few of them?

For Arminians: is it REALLY loving if an all knowing being brings creatures into existence knowing that most will reject him and be lost forever?

Christians in general: is it REALLY loving if you tell people to love YOU - OR ELSE?!? And, on another thought, is it even possible to truly love a person who threatens you in such a way?

I'm beginning to realize, I think, that any such view of a being is not truly loving.

No, no, no and no.  Most (all?) people severely underestimate what it means to be all-powerful and what it means to be the very definition of love.