Did Jesus descend into hell?

[B_T]

This is a very important question which requires a very good answer because it's one of the key questions about Christianity.

Well, I read some articles about Lazarus and the rich man and that we can't tell for sure that sheol is divided into two literal places - Abraham's lair and a burning hell. BUT! In my church the pastor said that Jesus descended INTO THE ABRAHAM'S LAIR ... and got the believers with himself in paradise while the others remained in sheol. As a result when you die you go immediately with God if yo believe in Jesus OR you go to sheol ( hell ) if you are  an unbeliever.
What would you say?

[Michele]

Some would say that this life is Sheol....meaning this life can be a paradise or a hell.

If this is true.....it would mean that Jesus' Spirit was really slain prior to His physical birth......and that His incarnation into this realm is His descent into Hell and His resurrection was His ascension back to heaven.

Any thoughts??

[FineLinen]

Well, I read some articles about Lazarus and the rich man and that we can't tell for sure that sheol is divided into two literal places - Abraham's lair and a burning hell. BUT! In my church the pastor said that Jesus descended INTO THE ABRAHAM'S LAIR ... and got the believers with himself in paradise while the others remained in sheol

Well, B_T perhaps you could ask the pastor of your church, what was the outcome of the Lord Jesus Christ preaching to "disobedient" spirits in the prison house of sh@owl/ hades?

1 Peter 3:18-20

"Christ once for all died for sins, the innocent One for the guilty many, that He might bring us near to God, being put to death in physical form, but His spirit entering upon new Life.

By which He also went and preached to imprisoned spirits which sometimes were disobedient and refused obedience long ago when the longsuffering of God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved through passing through the waves." 

1. What was the purpose of Jesus Christ ministering to disobedient dead upon His resurrection from the dead?

2. Who were these disobedient spirits?

3. What was the outcome of the ministry of Jesus Christ to the spirits of disobedience?

4. What did many of the earliest church fathers believe transpired when Jesus Christ preached to these spirits of disobedience from the days of Noah?

5. What is Zao?

Millions of hells of sinners cannot come near to exhaust infinite grace. -Samuel Rutherford-

ABRAHAM'S BOSOM by J. Preston Eby

The Parable

The Rich Man

Lazarus

The Deaths of the Rich Man and Lazarus

Abraham's Bosom

Lazarus In Abraham's Bosom

The Rich Man In Torment

The Great Gulf

HERE
 

[firstborn888]

Well, I read some articles about Lazarus and the rich man and that we can't tell for sure that sheol is divided into two literal places - Abraham's lair and a burning hell.

Here's something I posted on mychurch.com:

(quote) The good starting point I was referring to would be a quick easy study in the Hebrew and Greek concerning the words translated in the KJV as 'hell'. Almost every reference (all but 13) are Sheol (OT) and Hades (NT) which are synonymous terms. These two terms at NO TIME denote anything except (also translated as) the grave, the pit (holes where people are buried?) the state of the dead, the 'hidden state' ect.

All living persons who die, the good bad and ugly - ALL go there. Please DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. Study it out.

Now, the ONLY place which talks about 'fire' in Hades AND two compartments in Hades (the other compartment being the bosom of Abraham) is in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man, which, incidently, never mentions anything about faith in God or salvation, just that one was rich and had a good life and the other was poor and sick and had a bad life.

Questions about this ONE referrence SHOULD be asked, since a huge theological doctrine has been built around it (which you're not supposed to do from one scripture!) This one 'hitch' in the absolutely certain meaning of hades and sheol throughout scripture MUST have an explanation, one that may surprise you. (end quote)

This should make it clear - there are no 2 compartments, angels don't escort people's spirits around after death, even 'Abraham's bosom' is never mentioned except in this one 'parable'. Also, this is the only place in scripture where sheol or hades have anything to do with fire at all (in the bible).

Pagan mythology, however, is replete with descriptions of the good and bad places - the 'two' compartments in death doctrine has it's origin in pagan mythology and apparently seeped it's way into the Jewish religious system (possibly while they were in captivity to one of these pagan nations?)

So, bottom line, the Pharisees had such a doctrine, the bible doesn't. Jesus took there OWN teaching and turned it upside down on them. (ie: they said the rich were obviously blessed by God and the poor/diseased obviously cursed)

So, in answer to your question, Yes - Jesus went to 'death', 'the grave' the only ONE there is to go to.

- b

[SeekerSA]

I had this exact question a few days ago and was looking for the verse.  No wonder I did not find it, I was looking for descend and hell as keywords, So it is Prison.

Well I did a word search on Prison and it translates Prison or Watch or Prisoner or Imprisonment.

Again this comes from the Apostolic Creed below.

I believe in God the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth.  
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord;
who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
he descended into hell;
the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.  

I omitted the RCC tail piece

Some comments from creeds.net

The final clause in this sequence, "He descended into hell," is the most controversial in the Apostle's Creed. Indeed, some denominations consider it optional or refuse to include it at all. The problem with this phrase begins with what it connotes. To some, the descent into hell represents the physical agony of death upon the Cross. It was hellish in its pain. To others, the word hell means Hades or Sheol, the collective abode of the dead, divided into Paradise or Abraham's Bosom--the state of God-fearing souls--and Gehenna, the state of ungodly souls. Thus the descent into hell may suggest that the Son of God carried the sins of the world to hell; or the Son of God carried Good News of deliverance to the godly dead such as Lazarus the beggar and the repentant thief. A third-century Syrian Creed speaks of Jesus, "who was crucified under Pontius Pilate and departed in peace, in order to preach to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the saints concerning the end of the world and the resurrection of the dead."

Still others believe that the descent into hell account for the problem of God's justice by providing an opportunity for all mankind--in eternity as well as in time--to hear the message of redemption from the Word Himself. But whatever interpretation one accepts, the scriptural passages upon which this teaching is based must be studied closely. Some of the standard texts are Job 38:17, Psalm 68:18-22; Matthew 12:38-41; Acts 2:22-32; Romans 10:7; Ephesians 4:7-10, 1 Peter 3:18-20, and 1 Peter 4:6.

Now applying a 2nd witness principle, and knowing that some text was tampered with, I have a hard time believing anything else but Jesus descended into the grave.

1Pe 3:18-21  
For Christ also once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, indeed being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit; in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, to disobeying ones.

When once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared (in which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water);   which figure now also saves us, baptism; not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

Here I have deliberately changed the punctuation without altering the text.  We know punctuation, chapters and verses were inserted by translators.

Read the way it is punctuated above, the story changes quite a bit.

in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, to disobeying ones

What does the in which also refer to?

1. For Christ also once suffered for sins,
2. the just for the unjust,
3. that He might bring us to God,
4. indeed being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;

in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison⁵⁴³⁸, to disobeying ones.

Prison G5438 φυλακή phulakē foo-lak-ay'
From G5442; a guarding or (concretely guard), the act, the parson; figuratively the place, the condition, or (specifically) the time (as a division of day or night), literally or figuratively: - cage, hold, (im-) prison (-ment), ward, watch.

G5442 φυλάσσω phulassō foo-las'-so
Probably from G5443 through the idea of isolation; to watch, that is, be on guard (literally or figuratively); by implication to preserve. obey, avoid: - beware, keep (self), observe, save. Compare G5083.

G5443 φυλή phulē foo-lay'
From G5453 (compare G5444); an offshoot, that is, race or clan: - kindred, tribe.

G5083 τηρέω tēreō tay-reh'-o
From τηρός teros (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from G5442, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from G2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), that is, to note (a prophecy; figuratively to fulfil a command); by implication to detain (in custody; figuratively to maintain); by extension to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively to keep unmarried): - hold fast, keep (-er), (ob-, pre-, re) serve, watch.

G5453 φύω phuō foo'-o
A primary verb; probably originally to "puff" or blow, that is, to swell up; but only used in the implied sense, to germinate or grow (sprout, produce), literally or figuratively: - spring (up).

The Greek word G5438 φυλακή phulakē foo-lak-ay' is used only once in Peter and every other occurance relates to prison, watch etc.  Now how prison becomes an allegory for Gehenna I cannot see it by this analysis.

Even the RCC's I have discussed this with on baptism, this verse comes up but they cite it as I have split it as one of their proof texts.

I would go along in part with SG's take except that whom Jesus' ministered to here on earth were prisoners to their lot in Adam and being under the law.

The descend into hell where hell elsewhere is viewed as Eternal Torment as opposed to grave is where the issues arise.  Notice it only appears in the creed and is not backed convincingly by scripture.

I would like to hear other's take on this

Edit: I looked at other proof texts that I forgot to copy in with the comments, but still do not see it.  In 1 Peter 4:6 For to this end the gospel was preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the Spirit.

This in no way infers that this verse speaks of preaching in the grave only the dead.  "In Context" it is merely a statement of fact.

Matthews account tells of the graves opening up and many appeared at the time of Jesus' death, now they were dead.

In light of other views I have on UR, What would Jesus have needed to preach?  If the bit of Abraham's bosom is believed as a literal place, He would have just needed to stretch out His hand and take them with Him.  Had He appeared in this Abraham's Bosom, He sure would have looked differently to the rest of the folk there and would not have had to say one word except "Come".

Blessings

[AbbasChild]

If one follows up Peter's words to 1. Peter 4:6 I think it becomes obvious what Christ proclaimed in hades:

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

We also should remember that He went to make this proclamation to the spirits that were disobedient in the days of Noah.

[FineLinen]

If one follows up Peter's words to 1. Peter 4:6 I think it becomes obvious what Christ proclaimed in hades:

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

We also should remember that He went to make this proclamation to the spirits that were disobedient in the days of Noah.

Bingo, Floyd, the Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed zao life to the "disobedient" to bring them to live as God lives in spirit.

Salvator Mundi

In the first Epistle of St. Peter chapter 3: 18-20 we are distinctly told that, when Jesus was put to death in the flesh, and descended in the spirit to that dim Hadean world in which, as the Jews held, the spirits of men await the Resurrection, and preached his Gospel "to the spirits in prison," to those who had been"disobedient" to the word of God, to that ungodly generation to which Noah had preached righteousness in vain, --a generation so disobedient and ungodly that it repented God He had made them, and compelled Him to sweep them off the face of the earth with a flood.

Do you ask. "For what purpose, and to what effect, did He preach to them?"

St. Peter replies in the same Epistle chapter 4:6:

For this cause was the Gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Now we know how this strange revelation made to St. Peter was interpreted hy the primitive Church--and this is the point which those should mark who object to the late and modern date of the doctrine of Universal Redemption; for within a hundred years of the death of St. John there appeared a work of fiction, called the Gospel of Nicodemus, which professed to set forth all the details of Christ's descent into Hades. Of course this Fiction speaks to us with an authority no greater than that of the "Pilgrim's Progress," although, when it appeared, it was very widely received as an authoritative description of our Lord's ministry in Hades. But just as from Bunyan's great Allegory we might very safely infer what the Puritan conception of the Christian life was in the seventeenth century, so from this "Gospel of Nicodemus" we may very safely infer what conceptions the Christians of the second century formed of Christ's descent into Hades. And in this Gospel it is expressly affirmed, that, when He arrived, the gates of the Hadean prison burst open before Him, and the King of Glory, taking our forefather Adam by the hand, and turning to the vast multitude of imprisoned spirits, said...

Come all with me, as many as have died through the tree which he touched; for, behold, I raise you all up through the tree of the cross.

...words which, after all, are but a paraphrase of St. Paul's great saying, "As by one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so the the obedience of One shall the many be made righteous."

This then was the faith of the early Church, before it became corrupted by heathen philosophies and heathen superstitions--

viz., that the good news brought to earth by Christ was also preached by Him in Hades, preached even in Gehenna; that on the bridge of his Cross even the worst of the spirits in torment were able to pass over the "great gulf" and enter into the joys of Paradise; that even the disobedient generation of Noah, though still dead in the judgment and censures of men, live unto God.

Why should it not be our faith too?

St. Paul held it as well as St. Peter; for in all those passages (Phil. 2:9-11), in which he speaks of the redemption of Christ extending to all who are in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, by those who are "under the earth," he signified the inhabitants of that vast subterranean kingdom in which, as he held, the spirits of the dead were reserved for the day of judgement. And St. John held it as well as St. Paul; for, in his Apocalyptic vision (Rev. 5:13) he too beheld "every creature in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth," i.e, in Hades, giving glory and power unto Him that sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

And if St. Peter held the faith that even the most disobedient spirits in prison were quickened into life by the preaching of Christ; if St. Paul held that every knee in the Hadean kingdom should bow to Christ, as well as every knee confess Him Lord, which yet no man can do but by the Holy Ghost: if St. John heard "every creature" in Hades as well as in heaven and on earth, singing the high praises of God and the Lamb,--why should not we also hold this faith?

Dr. Samuel Cox: Salvator Mundi

[FineLinen]

Question # 5 = What is Zao?

Zao=

John 5:25

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall zao."

John 6:51

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall zao for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

John 6:57

"As the living Father hath sent me, and I zao by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall zao by me."

John 6:58

"This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall zao for ever."

John 6:69

"And we believe and are sure that thou art the Christ, the Son of the zao God."

John 7:38

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of zao water."

John 11:25

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the 'zwhv' (zoe): he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he zao."

1 Peter 4: 5,6

"Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they may be judged according to men in the flesh, but zao according to God in the spirit."

1 John 4:9

"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might zao through Him."

1 Peter 1:3

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a zao hope by the resurrection of Christ from the dead."

1 Peter 2:5

"You also, as zao stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God."

Heb. 4:12

"The word of the Lord is zao, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword....."

Heb. 7:25

"Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by Him, seeing He ever zao (s) to make intercession for them."

Heb. 10:38

"Now the just shall zao by faith...."

2 Tim. 3:12

"Yea, and all that will zao godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

2 Tim. 4:1

"...the Lord Jesus who shall judge the zao and the dead."

Phil. 1:21

"For to me to zao is Christ, and to die is gain."

Gal. 2:20

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I zao; yet not I, but Christ zao in me; and the life which I now zao in the flesh I zao by the faith of the Son of God who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Gal. 3:11

"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident; for, the just shall zao by faith."

Gal. 5:25

"If we zao in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."

2 Cor. 13:4

"For though He was crucified through weakness, yet He zao by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall zao with Him by the power of God toward you."

"For this is why the gospel was preached to the dead as well, that while they are judged in the flesh as men, they may zao as God lives in the spirit." -James Moffatt-

New Music

HERE

[Taffy]

Good response Fine Linen.

If one follows up Peter's words to 1. Peter 4:6 I think it becomes obvious what Christ proclaimed in hades:

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

We also should remember that He went to make this proclamation to the spirits that were disobedient in the days of Noah.

Those who are DEAD OR in prisoned are Likened to walking Tombs who speak the Ministry of DEATH...Dead to Christ  who are \were not yet LIVING.( zoa)

Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 


In Peters early days he struggled to with the Traditions of His fathers....Paul Himself having to Be firm with Him concerning such Matters
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews


Christ came to RAISE the DEAD, give EYES to the Blind and EARS to the Deaf, to cure SICKNESS, as the TRUE physcian OF LIFE which HE is.

...No PRISON ,Or Grave\or bondage or Chains  can HOLD those Christ came to Make FREE...

Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death


Act 5:15  Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid [them] on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.


Act 5:16  There came also a multitude [out] of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.


Act 5:17 ¶ Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation,


Act 5:18  And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison.


Act 5:19  But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said,


Act 5:20  Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.


Act 5:21  And when they heard [that], they entered into the temple early in the morning, and taught. But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought.


Act 5:22 ¶ But when the officers came, and found them not in the prison, they returned, and told,


Act 5:23  Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within.


Act 5:24  Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow.


Act 5:25  Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people


Blessings Taffy

[FineLinen]

What many of the earliest church believed

The Lord Jesus Christ emptied hades according to many of the early church fathers. And, according to the Apostle St. Peter, preached zao life to the disobedient dead from the days of Noah "when once the longsuffering of God waited...while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved through the water."

The two passages of the Ancient Words in 1 Peter 3 & 4 are some of the most difficult for those who cannot grasp our Lord's ongoing reconciliation on the other side of the veil.

Jesus Christ Holds The Keys Of Death & Hades

The Old Covenant

Isa. 9:2....Isa. 45:2,3...Isa. 49:9,25....Zech 9:11...Psl. 68:18....Psl. 69:33...Psl. 107:16

The New Covenant

1 Peter 3:21....Matt. 12:29....Phil. 2:9,10....Col. 2:15...Eph. 4:8,9

Primitive Witnesses

Acts Of The Apostle Thomas

"Christ, the Saviour of every creature, thou who wentest down even to hades. And didst bring out thence those shut in for many ages."

Origen Regarding Psl. 68:18

"Christ drew up and set free from the recesses of hades, the souls that were held in captivity."

Eusebius Of Alexandria

Christ will descend in order that all, both on earth and in heaven and in hades, may obtain salvation from Him.

Eusebius Of Caesarea 315 A.D.

Christ, caring for the salvation of all, and bursting the eternal gates, opened a way of return to life for the dead bound in chains of death.

Saint Athanasius

"While the devil thought to kill one, he is deprived of all cast out of hades, and sitting by the gates, sees all the fettered beings led forth by the courage of the Saviour."

Basil Of Seleucia

That which happened to the visible tomb of Christ (i.e. its being emptied on His rising), the same happened to hades the invisible.

St. Hilary 354 A.D.

"Christ ascended on high took (captured) those who had been captured by the devil."

M. F. Victorinus 360 A.D.

"The Saviour descends into hades by that passion of the cross in order that He may set free every soul."

St. Ambrose

"In the liberation of all, no one remains a captive; at the time of the Lord's passion he alone (the devil) was injured, who lost all the captives he was keeping."

St. Basil 370 A.D.

"The true Shepherd brought out of the prison of hades, and handed over to the holy angels, the sheep for whom He died."

St. Gregory Of Nazianzus 385 A.D.

"Until Christ loosed by His blood all who groan under tartarean chains."

Unknown Origin (From Christus Patiens)

"All of whom (the dead) Thou shalt bring forth as Thy spoils from hades...I believe Thou wilt bring forth from hades as many mortals as it has imprisoned."

St. Ambrose 375 A.D.

"The Lord descends to the infernal world, in order that even those, who were in perpetual abodes, should be set free from their perpetual bonds."

"Christ, when amongst the dead, gave pardon to those in the infernal abodes, destoying the law of death."

The Ambrosiaster

"Christ descending to the infernal abodes condemned death, taking from him those whom he was keeping."

"Christ snatched from hades all the devil, lost, together with Christ, all whom he was keeping."

"Christ went down to the depths of hell (Tartarus) and recalled the souls, bound by sin, to life, out of the devil's jaws."

Maximus Of Turin

"Hell (Tartarus) yields up those it contains to the upper world: the earth sends to heaven those whom it buries."

St. Jerome 378 A.D.

Our Lord descends and was shut up in the eternal bars, in order that He might set free all who had been shut up.

"In the blood of Thy passion thou didst set free those who were being kept bound in the prison of hell."

"The Lord descended to the place of punishment and torment, in which was the rich man, in order to liberate the prisoners."

Caesarus Of Arles

The eternal night of hell is illuminated as Christ descends the bonds of the damned, torn asunder, fell away every cry of the groaning still. The captive souls loosed from bonds go forth from hell (Tartarus), and the Apostle's words come true, i.e., in Jesus' name every knee bends of things in heaven, and earth, and under the earth.

Epiphanius

"Christ, like a swift-winged hawk, snatched away all that He had from the beginning, from the devil and left him deserted."

"Christ arose, and the prison of hades was emptied."

St. Chrysostom 398 A.D.

"While the devil imagined that he had got hold of Christ (in hades), he lost all in fact whom he was keeping.

Cyril Of Alexandria 412 A.D.

"Christ left the devil there solitary and deserted."

Christ, wandering down even to hades, has emptied the dark, hidden, unseen treasures.

Maximus Of Turin

"Christ carried off to heaven mankind whose cause He undertook, snatched from the jaws of hades."

Theodoret 430 A.D.

To the devil Christ declares...."I mean to open the prison of death for the rest, but will shut up thee only. Thou wast justly despoiled of all thy subjects.

Proclus, Bishop of Constantinople 434 A.D.

"Today Christ emptied the entire treasury of death."

All the dead, wondering at His passion, cry for joy, we are healed by His stripes.

Saint Chrysostom- Cyril of Alexandria

In reference to 1 Peter St. Chrysostom said...

Christ, he asserts, not merely opened, but broke in pieces the gates of brass, in order to make the prison useless, where there is neither door, nor bar, whosoever enters is not detained. What God destroys, who can set up again? Earthly kings indeed set free prisoners, yet leave untouched the prison gates; but Christ broke in pieces the gates of brass. Christ went to the utterly black and joyless portion of hades, and turned it into heaven, transferring all its wealth, the race of man, into His royal treasury. In this, too, Christ surpasses kings, for they send messengers, but He went in person to set the captives free. So again, he says: "Our Lord, when He was in hades, set free all who were kept prisoners by death. 

Cyril Of Alexandria 412 A.D.

"The devil was deprived of all power of being able to do anything for the future. The souls of men who had been caught in his toils to their ruin, came out of the underground gates, and, leaving the hiding-places of the pit escape"

Traversing the lowest recesses of the infernal regions, after that He had preached to the spirits there, He led forth the captives in His strength. For when death devoured Him who was the Lamb on behalf of all, it vomited forth all men in Him and with Him. Now when sin has been destroyed, how should it be but that death, too, should wholly perish?

......On the death of Christ, "all iniquity stopped its mouth, and the rule of death was destroyed, all sin (tes hamartias, sin generally) having been taken away, so, then, the sin of all having been taken away, we can justly say, 'O death where is thy sting? 

Theodoret, the Blessed, 423 A.D.

Theodoret became Bishop of Cyrus (Cyrrhus), in Syria...he wrote of the liberation of every soul from hades....

I shall shut up thee only..."Thou," says Christ to satan, "art justly despoiled of all thy subjects. Thou shalt vomit forth all that thou hast already swallowed. I shall free all from death for I paid the debt for the race. As the debt has been paid, it is right that those confined on account of it should be set free from their prison.

[Pierac]

As a result when you die you go immediately with God if yo believe in Jesus OR you go to sheol ( hell ) if you are  an unbeliever. What would you say?

2Ti 2:18  men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.


It is interesting to note the warning sounded by Justin Martyr about 150A.D:
"For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christian, but who do not admit the truth of the resurrection and venture to blasphemy the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; who say that there is no resurrection of the dead but that their souls when they die are taken into heaven: Do not imagine that they are Christians" (Dialogue with Trypho, ch.80).

For, as William Tyndale argued with the Roman Catholic Church, what point is there in a future resurrection of the dead if in fact they have already achieved their glory in heaven?

Modern scholars realize that the view of death which has prevailed (and is now promoted in church constantly) is not biblical . Far from it, it is, amazingly, actually "pagan" and "Gnostic." In a standard text of Christian Dogmatics we read:
"...the hellenization process by which Christianity adopted many Greek [PAGAN] thought patterns led in a different direction as the eschatological hope came to be expressed in Hellenistic categories. Irenaeus said: 'It is manifest that the souls of His disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things shall go away in the invisible place allotted to them by God. and there remain until the resurrection, awaiting that event. Then receiving their bodies and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come into the presence of God.' Irenaeus' statement contains the concept of an abode or purgatory in which the soul of the dead remains until the universal resurrection. We should not denounce this as a deviation from biblical teaching, since the point of the assertion is antignostic. Irenaeus wanted to reject the Gnostic idea that at the end of this earthly life the soul immediately ascends to its heavenly abode. As the early fathers fought the pagan idea that a part of the human person is simply immortal, it was important for them to assert that there is no rectilinear ascent to God. Once we die, life is over" (CHRISTIAN DOGMATICS, BRAATEN/JENSON, VOL. 2, p. 503, section written by Hans Schwartz, Professor of Protestant Theology, University of Regensburg, Federal Republic of Germany)

There is a further impressive protest against the popular idea that the dead survive as conscious "souls" in heaven. One might expect that such protest would initiate a wide-scale reform amongst the clergy. Alan Richardson writes in A Theological Word Book of the Bible (pp. 111, 112, emphasis added):

"The Bible writers, holding fast to the conviction that the created order owes its existence to the wisdom and love of God and is therefore essentially good, could not conceive of life after death as a disembodied existence [as millions of sincere believers now do] ("we shall not be found naked" — II Cor. 5:3), but as a renewal under conditions of the intimate unity of body and soul which was human life as they knew it. Hence death was thought of as the death of the whole man, and such phrases as 'freedom from death,' imperishability or immortality could only properly be used to describe what is meant by the phrase eternal or living God 'who only has immortality' (I Tim. 6:16). Man does not possess within himself the quality of deathlessness, but must, if he is to overcome the destructive power of death, receive it as the gift of God who 'raised Christ from the dead,' and put death aside like a covering garment (I Cor. 15:53, 54). It is through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that this possibility for man ((2 Tim. 1:10) has been brought to life and the hope confirmed that the corruption (Rom. 11:7) which is a universal feature of human life shall be effectively overcome."

The fundamental confusion about life after death which has so permeated traditional Christianity is brilliantly described by Dr. Paul Althaus in his book, The Theology of Martin Luther (Fortress Press, 1966, pp. 413, 414):

"The hope of the early church centered on the resurrection of the Last Day. It is this which first calls the dead into eternal life (I Cor. 15; Phil 3:21). This resurrection happens to the man and not only to the body. Paul speaks of the resurrection not 'of the body' but 'of the dead.' This understanding of the resurrection implicitly understands death as also affecting the whole man.... Thus the original Biblical concepts have been replaced by ideas from Hellenistic, Gnostic dualism. The New Testament idea of the resurrection which affects the whole man has had to give way to the immortality of the soul. The Last Day also loses its significance, for souls have received all that is decisively important long before this. Eschatological tension is no longer strongly directed to the day of Jesus' Coming. The difference between this and the Hope of the New Testament is very great."

That difference may be witnessed in contemporary preaching at funerals which, though claiming the Bible as its source, reflects a pagan Platonism which both the New Testament and the early Church Fathers rejected.


Peace,
Paul

[firstborn888]

Well, I'm sure my view is not widely accepted, but take a look at this earth, the news, the evil, the perverseness, the wickedness, where Satan's seat is. IMO earth is the pit, it is hades, it is the prison, it is where death reigns, where most are completely seperated from God (what many ET'ers say hell is, seperated from God) there is the visible and the invisible, this is hell, this is the lake of fire, this is the place of suffering, this is the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth! So, yes, Jesus did decend into hell. He came here to save us!

Now to clarify, those who don't serve God here are in a "deeper" hell right now. And a depth of hell can be classified by a persons "current depth in it". Also, the term hades may refer to the invisible, that part that we can't see in the flesh.
And I should also clarify, that those who serve God are not experiencing the same "hell fire" as those who don't.

You make some great points. If you look closely at Jonah - you will see a description of 'living' in the realm of death. "The earth with her bars were about me forever" is the prison you refer to. "I am cast out of your site" refers to the general penalty of death/separation (driven from the garden/tree of life). "The weeds were wrapped around my head" refers to the mental/emotional anguish we experience while we are in this state of living death. "All thy waves and thy billows" refers to the physical suffering.

I think it's important though to recognize that the word 'hell' is not a scriptural term at all. Some who read my posts have heard this a thousand times, but I'll say it again; sheol/hades is a generic term for 'the grave' and it does not discriminate - the good, the bad and the ugly all are there or go there. Throughout scripture (in the after death aspect) there is no fire, no thought, no consciousness EXCEPT in the one parable where Jesus turned the Pharisees false doctrine of the two compartments in sheol (taken from pagan mythology) upside down on them.

Gehenna is a totally different thing, as is the lake of fire. So we would do well to drop the word 'hell' altogether, as it only creates confusion.

Anyway, we spiritually escape sheol in Christ now and then literally (bodily) escape sheol at the resurrection. When sheol is cast into the lake of fire - it's very existence is completely destroyed, death is swallowed up in victory.

   - b

[arcticmonster2003]

quote from firstborn888

Gehenna is a totally different thing, as is the lake of fire. So we would do well to drop the word 'hell' altogether, as it only creates confusion.

I agree that there are differences in meanings in the bible where hell is the word used to translate different hebrew and greek words, but this would have required a completely different thread to be started and I really just wanted to explain why I think Jesus decended into the same "hell" referred to in the original topic question:

Did Jesus descend into hell?

, and I felt I needed to offer some more explanation for my view, which isn't a common view, otherwise people might have thought I was just trying to be a downer. :icon_king:

[firstborn888]

I really just wanted to explain why I think Jesus decended into the same "hell" referred to in the original topic question:

Did Jesus descend into hell?

, and I felt I needed to offer some more explanation for my view, which isn't a common view, otherwise people might have thought I was just trying to be a downer. :icon_king:

Many times the uncommon views are the correct ones. I'll take the next step and say that Jesus' death was literal, but also symbolic. I'm not saying just symbolic of something spiritual that happened to Jesus, but symbolic of what someone else did.

   - b

[arcticmonster2003]

I'm not saying just symbolic of something spiritual that happened to Jesus, but symbolic of what someone else did.

Lost me here. :dontknow:

[firstborn888]

I'm not saying just symbolic of something spiritual that happened to Jesus, but symbolic of what someone else did.

Lost me here. :dontknow:

Haha - I think I lost MYSELF there. That's what I get for posting at 4 am :mshock:. What I meant to say is - though the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus was literal, it was also symbolic of what happened to someone else.

   - b   

[Michele]

Do you mean each of us firstborn888?

[Pierac]

What happened to someone else?   :dontknow:


Paul

[rosered]

Hi ya all ,,  i have read this thread with great interest

  hearing some what   what is being said ,

  the  waters of Noah to me are the same  waters voices of peoples being  the dead sea [ dragons flood ]..and we are compared to as Noah  finding the same saving grace of God By the Word of God ..Noah: repose; consolation, rest
  what if  Jesus Christ is Spirit & Soul and embodiment being  the WORD OF GOD
that only came in the fulness of times [ages] as a man born of woman under Law  ?, and yet  IS  what we dont quite realize
  being   the incorruptible  HOLY ONE  promised of God
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Act 2:31  He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

  what was dead to us, was Him , and what now lives,  is us by and  IN HIM ? we were dead to God but now Live to God because of HIM

    thanking God for our Lord Jesus Christ .. seeing the Spirit of God & Christ as being  the HOLY SPIRIT
love  rose

[firstborn888]

Do you mean each of us firstborn888?

Yes. The aguish of mind (crown of thorns) the works of our hands, the piercing of heart, our walk.

I will never ever minimize the literalness of what Jesus suffered for us, but I see mankind in a totally different light that mainstream Christianity.

When I first read where Jesus said "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the fish's belly, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" I went to Jonah, and saw the description of suffering, lost mankind: "From the belly of hell I cried" and "I am cast out of thy sight" and "the earth with her bars were about me forever" and "the weeds were wrapped around my head" etc.

So, yes, He was/is a symbol of all humanity.

(I know, I KNOW - tie me to the stake!)

   - byron

[Michele]

Do you mean each of us firstborn888?

Yes. The aguish of mind (crown of thorns) the works of our hands, the piercing of heart, our walk.

I will never ever minimize the literalness of what Jesus suffered for us, but I see mankind in a totally different light that mainstream Christianity.

When I first read where Jesus said "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the fish's belly, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" I went to Jonah, and saw the description of suffering, lost mankind: "From the belly of hell I cried" and "I am cast out of thy sight" and "the earth with her bars were about me forever" and "the weeds were wrapped around my head" etc.

So, yes, He was/is a symbol of all humanity.

(I know, I KNOW - tie me to the stake!)

   - byron

Hey byron :icon_flower:.......I keep wanting to call you lord byron. :laughing7:  :happygrin:

Anyway....I absolutely agree with what you posted......and appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the subject. You know... I haven't come across many who see this as you do......and often wonder why.  :dontknow:

[firstborn888]

Hey byron :icon_flower:.......I keep wanting to call you lord byron. :laughing7:  :happygrin:

Hi SG,
Yeah, in my first year of school I was freaking out because I had NO CLUE why my teacher started calling be that, and I was afraid to ask. I thought she was blaspheming! Strange experience for a 6 year old...

  - byron

[Michele]

Hey byron :icon_flower:.......I keep wanting to call you lord byron. :laughing7:  :happygrin:

Hi SG,
Yeah, in my first year of school I was freaking out because I had NO CLUE why my teacher started calling be that, and I was afraid to ask. I thought she was blaspheming! Strange experience for a 6 year old...

  - byron

Yeah......I bet. :grin:  That's cute.   :icon_flower:

[Bethany]

If one is to take the parable literaly instead of symbolically, then one would have to assume that Heaven is Abraham's bossom.  :dontknow:

Bethany

[Michele]

If one is to take the parable literaly instead of symbolically, then one would have to assume that Heaven is Abraham's bossom.  :dontknow:

Bethany

Good point Bethany! :Sparkletooth: