Chip Brogden

[JP]

Does anyone know what Chip Brogden believes about UR? I've been told that He teaches a form of it, but when I checked his site...

Q: It is reported that you promote Universalism in your book, "The Irresistible Kingdom." Is this true?

Chip: No, I do not teach Universalism. These accusations are largely made by people who have not even read my book. Since my writings are based on Scripture, I am more than willing to respond to intelligent, thoughtful, and Scriptural concerns related to the specific issues I have raised in the book. So far I haven't received any.

http://www.theschoolofchrist.org/books/kingdom.html

Has anyone read this book?

Thanks.

[WhiteWings]

http://www.zionstrumpet.org/To%20Chip%20Brogden.pdf
I haven't read the book but quotes found in the above link point toward UR.

[martincisneros]

He's UR, but not a Universalist, if that makes any sense -- like a lot of the rest of us that teach the Universal Restoration, but it's neither the particular emphasis, nor the excuse to abandon all other Biblical truths -- and the intent is to teach the whole counsel of God's Word for the development of the whole man in Christ: ages of ages, anointing, spirit, soul, body, financially, socially, etc.

[WhiteWings]

Mystery Man Martin,

To me it all sounds like he is in the denial phase. He has yet to come out of the closet  :laughing7:

[martincisneros]

Not really, I've heard quite a few UR messages from him.  He's dogmatically UR, but just not going to wander very far away from the calling to be conformed to the image of Christ Jesus.  Gary Amirault has loved his stuff in years past and has forwarded articles from him to his email lists.  Not sure if I bumped into Chip's older website on my own, or via Gary's forwarding of his stuff.  Haven't been to his website in years, so unsure if his book of Revelation stuff is still available on there.  Not 100% sure what my emphasis is any more, since God revealed to me nearly a couple of years ago that the Song of Solomon is His intended Apocalypse for each of us rather than global destruction; passionate embrace in bottomless, infinite love for each person (including in this world - 1John 4:17), RATHER THAN a stick of dynamite in everyone's butt, as in a Looney Tunes cartoon and everyone being blown into outer space!  EARTH'S FUTURE ISN'T KRYPTON'S PAST!!  Neither is society's future!!  I can deal with other labels, and have a few in mind as preferences, but can't personally bare to be called a Universalist 'cause I've met a few. :laughing7: :icon_jokercolor:

[sven]

btw as you mention it, how does he understand ages of ages?

[JP]

Thanks very much for your replies. I did check that pdf at http://www.zionstrumpet.org/To%20Chip%20Brogden.pdf and it's quite clear Chip is UR but that he wants to distance himself from the weirdo fringe elements. I don't know how well his approach will work, seems like he'd be better of just saying it straight and bringing some correction to those who have gone to extremes. But that's for him to work out with the Lord. Thanks again.

[Seth]

I think the difference is between Universalism (often referred to Unitarian Universalism) as opposed to UR (through Christ only). Unitarian Universalism supposes that "all roads lead to heaven" so they embrace all religions. Where "UR" through Christ only says that Christ is the only savior and the only road to salvation is through Him, and nobody is saved in false religions, but FROM them. I would not want to be supposed a Universalist in that sense.

[WhiteWings]

In that case the UR name is poorly chosen. It's never good to have a similar name of what you oppose.
And it will confuse outsiders too.
The Christ part should be more prominent in the name I think.
CUR would already be much better I think.

[Tim B]

I usually refer to myself as a Christian Universalist or UR as Christian Universalism. If people ask for more detail, or I wish to clarify, I state that Christ will, in the end, save everybody. I think simply calling myself a universalist could lead to false assumptions.

[jabcat]

I agree!  Too much baggage, too many negative connotations to "all roads lead to heaven" jazz.

My favorite is "I believe in Ultimate Reconciliation...that God will save all through Jesus' death on the cross and His resurrection".  Sort of long, but I think it explains what I believe and opens doors if they wish to discuss further.

Gary's Victorious Gospel moniker is a good one too, IMO.  Have a great day!

[jabcat]

Interesting thread.  Bump.