Barriers to Entry in Understanding UR

[legoman]

I've been thinking about this lately as I discuss UR with all sorts of opposers... what are the biggest blocks to understanding UR?  This is what I've come up with so far:

1.  FEAR of HELL - it seems there is a class of people who can't even consider the possibility there is no hell.  They fear by doing such a critical investigation, they would be blaspheming God and would fall into the very Hell they are questioning.

2.  HARDENED HEART - these are the types who say HELL is fair, HELL is just, even if God sent everyone to HELL He is still loving for saving me (what if He send you to hell though?)

3.  Belief in FREE WILL - I don't want to start a big debate on free will - I think most people here agree we have a choice about what we do.  But many people say UR can't be true because we have free will - there will always be one person who will walk up to God and say NO to His face, and God can't do anything about it.  Man's will trumps God's will.

4.  Mistranslations - many people just can't believe that the bible would have mistranslated certain words.



Of these, I think #1 and #2 are the toughest to deal with, as using reason or logic has no effect on them.  They proceed on pure faith, but their faith is based on HELL.  "HELL MUST EXIST or I have no reason for doing anything"....

Thoughts?

Legoman

[Paul Hazelwood]

Just to add to that as the people I have encountered have had various objections and have encountered all that you list in one way or another.

But, I think a factor that I have heard along with all that you list is that we have until we die on this earth to make the choice.   I think it is reasonable to say that in some way or another people die not professing to believe in even God not to mention Christ.


So until that time frame barrier is broken, most scriptures for UR are then seen out of that context.   The case can of course be made, but I think the time frame perspective is going to be a part of most peoples thinking that has had any kind of influence from any religious based instruction where eternal hell is a factor.   Even Islam if I am not mistaken has the influence of death on earth being the point at which judgment is rendered.

This is why I have come to the conclusion that I am to share, give verses when necessary and know I can walk away even with the person convinced they defeated me in a debate and KNOW that their agreement with me was not necessary for Jesus to accomplish his purpose 100%

[legoman]

Yes, this would be another barrier:

5. Blinded by Doctrines of Men.  Things like:
- when we die, its "too late"
- Jesus spoke about "hell" therefore eternal torment must be true
- why should God let everyone into heaven after they die?  That would mean I'm living righteously right now for nothing...
- an infinite God demands infinite punishment...


Here's another one.  Today I saw someone had written this: 
"If universalism is true, then I don't need to hear about it.  If universalism is false, then I don't want to hear about it."

[WhiteWings]

To much boxes Legoman,

Perhaps it started out as 'boxes' but it all merged together 1000s of years ago.

Lets start with 4. Mistranslations.
Are you sure it ar mistranslations (=mistakes) or intended (=doctrinal lie)?
What came first? The doctrine or the translation. If I was forced to pick a side I would pick doctrine.
Pagan concepts of eternal torture influenced translation.
So points 4 and 5 are already blended.

Point 2. Hardened heart
Ever seen a war docu/movie where young soldiers where scared as hell to make their first kill?
After a few kills something snaps in their brian. Their heart hardens. They don't feel anything anymore when killing.
Same goes for religion. People are put in the mid such a doctrine. Like on the battlefield shoot or be shot.
Believe others will suffer or else you will suffer also.
Point 2 is just the result of points 4 and 5.

3. Free will. It doesn't really matter if it exists or not.
Every false doctrine exposes contradictions/mistakes in the Bible. Love vs Torture for example.
Most people feel that doing good is an act God likes to see. They also believe God is good.
But because they are already drowning in points 4, 5 and 2 fantasy is used to explain away contradictions.

That leaves us with point 1 that I sorta already answered.
The whole doctrine has build is saftey catches. Hell is real. If you don't believe that you end in Hell.
Soldier: Kill or be killed.

So, Ther was a time when choices where made.
Now people are just born into a sick twisted web of lies.
Their mind is hardened/conditioned during childhood. When they are finally are old enough to think for themselfs the programming of their minds prevents them from looking outside the box.

[legoman]

Good points Paul and WW.

Yes perhaps there are too much boxes!

But when discussing with an individual, often these points come up seperately, and one will be the primary resistance of looking at UR.  Mostly its just fear and doctrines that need to be overcome I suppose.  And logic and reason has no place when dealing with fear and preconceived ideas.

[WhiteWings]

Their mind is hardened/conditioned during childhood. When they are finally are old enough to think for themselfs the programming of their minds prevents them from looking outside the box.

I once same a small article on a BBQ-site. I don't remember the exact figures.
70% is saved before 16.
85% before 17.
99.5 before 18.

Of course saved means believing their doctrine.
Still I truth in it.
Around the age of 15-16 people really start to think. I think :laughing7:
If they aren't infected at that age their developing logic may keep them out of the web of hate because they see contradictions.