The Elect shall Rule with a Rod of IRON!

[legoman]

I just had one of those jaw-dropping moments.  Read this article:

http://www.mercifultruth.com/links-chosenkingdom.htm

The Elect shall Rule with a Rod of IRON!  (Rev 2:26-27)  Sounds pretty harsh doesn't it?  Many show this verse to mean the non-elect will be crushed and utterly punished before/while they are in hell.

Here is the specific verse:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27And he shall rule [greek: poimano] them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Two important points I just learned:

1.  the greek word for "rule" here is "poimano" which has this meaning: 

to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
- to rule, govern
- of rulers
- to furnish pasture for food
- to nourish
- to cherish one's body, to serve the body
- to supply the requisites for the soul's need

2. they shall be broken to shards by the elect, just like the elect were broken by the Father!


To summarize, what this verse is really saying:  The elect will be shepherds to all the non-elect, just as the Father was the shepherd to the elect.  Everyone is broken into shards so they can come to God!

WOW - this pretty much confirms for me that the elect are instrumental in bringing the non-elect to God.

(an aside: not sure how the "lake of fire is NOW" theory fits in with this).

Legoman

[WhiteWings]

Very nice find :thumbsup:

Still rod of iron sound a bit harsh.
Why not just a rod of wood like usual?
Regardless of the definition of 'rule' it sounds a bit less gentle that a shepard with ordinary sheeps.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, Legoman.......that's true.  :thumbsup:  And WW, it's iron because iron speaks of judgment in there. And that's why our natural blood bloodline has so much iron it, which is what makes it red, the color of our sins. Blessings....

[legoman]

Being broken into shards also sounds a bit harsh, thats why you need a rod of iron - to do all the breaking.

Its judgment like Cardinal said.

We will all go through it one time or another, but the beautiful part is there is always a shepherd to lead us in the right direction (eventually).

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, we all do. But the beauty of it is, He saves us in our brokenness, so His judgments truly are unto victory. Blessings....

Ps 34:18 - The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Ps 51:17 - The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

[WhiteWings]

And WW, it's iron because iron speaks of judgment in there.

Cardinal I never expected diffrently.
It's just that the word definitions Leogoman posted don't really fit in one sentence with that.
When I read "to nourish" I think of babies. And not of hitting babies with a rod of iron.
Or do you think "rock the cradle" means stoning the babie to sleep?

And that's why our natural blood bloodline has so much iron it, which is what makes it red, the color of our sins.

Adam means red earth/soil/sand IIRC. Maybe God used iron ore (spelling?)

It's just that for me iron seems to add force.
The verse also could have read:
- rule with a firm hand. -> sounds much diffrent from the king ruled with an iron fist.
- rule with a rod. -> normal everyday rod used for sheep
- rule with an iron rod -> sounds to me the iron is added to show the more hash ruling.
- rule with the sword -> the king slays all who don't disagree.

The 2 verses just don't align with the bold print imo. The none bold definition seem to fit better.
Just my two iron  :2c:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I understand.......let me try again. The rod also speaks of His authority. Iron speaks of the heart of man for the reasons I said, and an UPRIGHT heart (made by His Spirit to be so) is what a rod of iron is.

This is why we will "rule" over the nations, but FIRST we must seek to let HIM rule over our hearts. Adam lost the ability to rule over his surroundings, because he did first rule over his heart/Eve. God is restoring thru a perfect and upright man (Christ in us, the hope of glory), that which was lost in the garden.

And rule does not mean beat into submission as we tend to think of rule, but is judgment to the things of the flesh that keep us from doing His perfect will. So although it is a judgment, it is a judgment that sets free, not a judgment that imprisons. It is a reversal. Many things in there are in "reversal mode", so it appears to be something it is not, because of the reversal imparted into it's nature, by the Spirit of Christ.

The Word speaks of children as being a glory. To be blunt in comparison here; an upright rod also speaks of the ability of the male to release seed, in this case, the righteous (means upright) Christ imparts seed into a female (virgin soul).

So the ultimate goal of our Father is to produce sons who have an UPRIGHT heart (rod of iron, Christ in us manifested and ruling over us), capable of reproducing that nature in others, thru the submission of the Spirit, which is rooted in LOVE. So Adam's rod "fell" also, and was only capable of reproducing children after the flesh, not mature sons unto God.

Pentecost was never about producing sons, it was about producing virgin souls, that He could impregnate fully with Himself.  That is why El Shaddai was the manifestation of God associated with the inner court, but ElYon, with the Holy of Holies.

And many in Pentecost are still trying to produce mature sons that bring in the fullness of times (Him again, it's all about Him), but will not because you cannot impart what you do not have, and their trying to has been as two women together, not a male possessing his female.

And this is why Song of Solomon was not allowed to be read until the men reached 30 years of age, the same age David ASCENDED the THRONE, and the same age our elder brother was when He displayed the King/priest role He possessed.

Christ is in the many, but the many will not submit to have Him rule over their hearts completely, to reproduce His nature. But those of the "resurrection" while still in the body (RAISED HEARTS), are the children of the Kingdom, and to them it will be granted to sit upon His throne and rule and reign with Him a "thousand years".

So; 1000 years = 10 X 10 X 10 = measurements of the Kingdom on earth = Holy of Holies, Father in Christ reconciling ALL MEN unto Him, it is a NATURE, IN A PEOPLE, not a measurement of time. Blessings to all....

[Redlettervoice]

.

The "manchild" rules with a ROD of Iron!! too!

Paul wrote to the Corinthians, "shall I come to you with a "rod of iron"
or IN LOVE?

The "rod of iron" leads us "to" the LOVE of God.

I think the Morman books say so much.  I was looking at that last year
with a friend and we thought it looked that way, and lo and behold
we saw it written but it "was" in the Morman writings..........
Well, truth is everywhere I guess.

I also do not think that the "lake of fire" is the final destination.  Of
course not, and there is NO FIRE in the City!  But the lamb is the
LIGHT thereof........."death" and "hell" are cast IN to the lake of fire.
God still preparing.........for the final destination.

[legoman]

And WW, it's iron because iron speaks of judgment in there.

Cardinal I never expected diffrently.
It's just that the word definitions Leogoman posted don't really fit in one sentence with that.
When I read "to nourish" I think of babies. And not of hitting babies with a rod of iron.
Or do you think "rock the cradle" means stoning the babie to sleep?

And that's why our natural blood bloodline has so much iron it, which is what makes it red, the color of our sins.

Adam means red earth/soil/sand IIRC. Maybe God used iron ore (spelling?)

It's just that for me iron seems to add force.
The verse also could have read:
- rule with a firm hand. -> sounds much diffrent from the king ruled with an iron fist.
- rule with a rod. -> normal everyday rod used for sheep
- rule with an iron rod -> sounds to me the iron is added to show the more hash ruling.
- rule with the sword -> the king slays all who don't disagree.

The 2 verses just don't align with the bold print imo. The none bold definition seem to fit better.
Just my two iron  :2c:

Hi WW,

I get what you are saying.  Remember Rev is a book of symbols.

And I think it could be harsh, being "ruled with a rod of iron", but just not way an ETer thinks of that verse.  I get the impression some people (ETers) think we will be running the kingdom, kicking everyone's butt, causing lots of "justice" and "punishment" for the non-elect.  Give em one last kick, before the real party starts - eternal torment.

In actuality it will be harsh to be broken of our past views, and be made obedient to God.  By the end of it all, everyone will be obedient to God, and everyone will love God.

I think the "shepherding" concept makes sense if you look at the bigger picture.  It may seem harsh at the time, but really what is going on is the elect is leading the sheep to Christ.

Peace...

[WhiteWings]

Remember Rev is a book of symbols.

True. But symbols doesn't automaticly mean nonsense or lies.
I don't expect those rulers to work in some torture chamber.
Neither do I believe the rods of iron are really rods of cotton candy....
Bit like force feeding the sheep instead of just feeding.

And I think it could be harsh, being "ruled with a rod of iron", but just not way an ETer thinks of that verse.

Agreed. (from now on I'm gone agree with you just in case you are gonna be my ruler...)

I get the impression some people (ETers) think we will be running the kingdom, kicking everyone's butt, causing lots of "justice" and "punishment" for the non-elect.  Give em one last kick, before the real party starts - eternal torment.

I wonder if they even believe that. If Jesus returns doesn't He wipe out all armies opposing God?
Those people are dead. And by being wiped out they are judged. So they are already in hell-fire.
You know I can agree with that view with one extra word. "Godly-hell-fire"
Perhaps those with the rod are angels (=messangers of the good word) that are watching the sinners be tormented (=tested) in the refiners fire.

[WhiteWings]

I also do not think that the "lake of fire" is the final destination.  Of
course not, and there is NO FIRE in the City!

God is a consuming fire. Isn't Father in the city?
Is He at work outside of the city gates?

[legoman]

And I think it could be harsh, being "ruled with a rod of iron", but just not way an ETer thinks of that verse.

Agreed. (from now on I'm gone agree with you just in case you are gonna be my ruler...)

Awesome!  Now I can officially call WhiteWings one of my minions! MWHAUAUAUA (evil laugh)  :cool:

I get the impression some people (ETers) think we will be running the kingdom, kicking everyone's butt, causing lots of "justice" and "punishment" for the non-elect.  Give em one last kick, before the real party starts - eternal torment.

I wonder if they even believe that. If Jesus returns doesn't He wipe out all armies opposing God?
Those people are dead. And by being wiped out they are judged. So they are already in hell-fire.
You know I can agree with that view with one extra word. "Godly-hell-fire"
Perhaps those with the rod are angels (=messangers of the good word) that are watching the sinners be tormented (=tested) in the refiners fire.

Yeah I was theorizing more there than anything.  To be honest I think most ETers don't have a clue who they will be "ruling" over.  I've heard some say it will only be the rest of the world who was alive at that time when Christ comes ie. everyone who was "left behind" from the "rapture".  Others seem to think we will be ruling over "somebody", don't know who specifically, but because its with a rod of iron apparently they think they will be a bunch of slave drivers.

Peace to you my friend (and new minion) Whitewings  :winkgrin:

[WhiteWings]

Lego do you use a rod of iron or just throw a boomerang?  :laughing7:

[Redlettervoice]

I also do not think that the "lake of fire" is the final destination.  Of
course not, and there is NO FIRE in the City!

God is a consuming fire. Isn't Father in the city?
Is He at work outside of the city gates?

Yes, God is a consuming fire.  But.....isn't everthing consumed already
by the time the City comes? What's there to consume? There's where
the "Lamb" is the Light!!!LIGHT!  No "mention" of fire.  Just my observation, you don't have to set it in concrete. ha

[WhiteWings]

I also do not think that the "lake of fire" is the final destination.  Of
course not, and there is NO FIRE in the City!

God is a consuming fire. Isn't Father in the city?
Is He at work outside of the city gates?

Yes, God is a consuming fire.  But.....isn't everthing consumed already
by the time the City comes?

I think not because there are still sinners outside the gates of the city.

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

What's there to consume? There's where
the "Lamb" is the Light!!!LIGHT!  No "mention" of fire.

You are right that several verses speak of Father and Son being the light.
All that's left is shifting blame to Legoman. He started stired up the fire.  :pointlaugh:
Seriously: I can't really prove it with verses but my opinion/feeling is that Jesus is inside the city and God outside the city purifying people. Because we see that the sinners that are outside the gates are allowed to come into the city.
But my guess it not as long as they are unclean.

Just my observation, you don't have to set it in concrete. ha

Dito  :winkgrin:

[rosered]

 

  the salt and fire and   and rods of men ............

  I am so reminded of the salt covenant   that the Lord made with David , when you read Rev  and see the Key of David [mercy forever ]

no man can   only the    beloved / David means beloved


Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 
Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openes, and no man shuts; and shuts, and no man opens; 





2Ch 13:5 Ought ye not to know that the LORD God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, [even] to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?      you have to read Ezekiel   Eze 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. 
Eze 37:24 And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 
, its all soooooo connected  , I am certain of that through  the bloodline of David/ beloved  and Christ/annointed ..........


2Sa 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 


2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 

2Sa 7:15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 


2Sa 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. 

[legoman]

Lego do you use a rod of iron or just throw a boomerang?  :laughing7:

LOL no the boomerang is for my other job  :winkgrin:

[sheila]

yeah, but he who judges without mercy,will have his judgement

without mercy. Sacrifices and offerings I did not want,but in

mercy is my delight.

  Another reason Aarons rod bore blossoms, and fruit [alm[onds]

  gifts to the poor.


    Ezekiel 34;2 speaks of God's judgement to the

shepherds of Israel


   a rod of Iron if expertly worked could be a sword...

    a s[alvation]word   a coup deGRACE


   there have been many false-shepherds that have not treated

the flock tenderly.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Sheila, good post....... :thumbsup: