Insensitive or Insane

[Sarah]

My brother who is 29 left his wife, married his 'massage therapist' who delivers happy endings, spends every dime he makes, which is quite a bit, and has maxed out his credit cards and my mothers. He believes God told him to do much of this and he also believes God has a calling on him and his new wife (whom he's trying to save) to save a country and possibly the world. I spoke to him last night after 9 months and it frightens me what he sees as 'God spoken'. My Grandmother did a similiar thing to my dad and his sister. She left him and his sister to go 'preach the gospel'. Later in life she was put in a mental hospital as she was cerifiable, I'm not sure the diagnosis, maybe schitzophrenia. I don't know if he has convinced himself according the lusts of his flesh or if he has a mental condition. Does anyone else know of anyone like this? I want to know if anyone else has dealt with this?

[jabcat]

My first reaction was mental illness.  Especially with the family history of psychosis.  What he is saying (especially the save a country/world thing) strikes me as delusional.  The rest of it, the "God told me" and then acting on it, when it WASN"T God but our own imagination, etc.,, I believe about any of us can do if not careful;  some more than others.  But putting it ALL together, from the limited amount of info, if I were doing an assessment and HAD to make a diagnosis, it would definitely be a psychotic disorder which can take several forms, and all include delusions. 

Some options would be schizophrenia as you mentioned;  schizoaffective disorder, Bipolar Disorder with psychosis, etc.  None are "good", all could be a cause of the things you've mentioned.

The other thing is, if he is mentally ill, you probably will be very limited in what you can do other than support him and "educate" him a little, encourage him to get help, and pray for him.  Unless he becomes dangerous to self or others, it's not a crime to be insane.  :sigh:

[martincisneros]

My brother who is 29 left his wife, married his 'massage therapist' who delivers happy endings, spends every dime he makes, which is quite a bit, and has maxed out his credit cards and my mothers. He believes God told him to do much of this and he also believes God has a calling on him and his new wife (whom he's trying to save) to save a country and possibly the world. I spoke to him last night after 9 months and it frightens me what he sees as 'God spoken'. My Grandmother did a similiar thing to my dad and his sister. She left him and his sister to go 'preach the gospel'. Later in life she was put in a mental hospital as she was cerifiable, I'm not sure the diagnosis, maybe schitzophrenia. I don't know if he has convinced himself according the lusts of his flesh or if he has a mental condition. Does anyone else know of anyone like this? I want to know if anyone else has dealt with this?

Since you're not there for the spending or giving of every dime and you're not able to vouch for where each penny's been going from first hand knowledge of their situation and of whether or not God has directed any aspect of it, let's look at the other factors of the situation -- since money could also be disappearing into things he just won't tell you about, that might be legit, though he'd consider it none of your business because of the discretion Jesus said to normally use regarding one's giving so that one's Father would reward them openly.  A reward is above/beyond simply a harvest.  Being broke doesn't automatically imply being out of God's Will.  Having to temporarily rely on his mother's financial help doesn't automatically make him a scoundrel.  If temporary financial embarassment were the gauge on whether or not you were in the Will of God, then I haven't been in the Will of God in over 3 years. :mshock:  But that's foolishness.  Although He does give us richly all things for our enjoyment according to 1Timothy 6 and intends for us to eat the best of the land as we're willing and obedient to Him, there are other things that'll sometimes take a season of priority over that and/or things that simply have to be walked out by faith to get there.

Also, with regards to his new female companion, are you inferring arbitrarily without having been present to watch that he could only be THAT INTO HER because her massages have just got to be going that far?  Or was she an employee for one of those adult parlors to where it was just an automatic that if she got her hands on him, that that's where it was going to go?  In other words, did she just happen to be a massage therapist, and because he's that into her, you've taken the mental leap that she left no part of him without thorough relaxation?  Quite a few people that give massages really don't go that far!  And though her combination of personality, intellect, and physical characteristics might have really done it for him, unless he came in with the dirty mouth of everywhere she went or you somehow got possession of his "private" DVD collection, then you don't have a basis for concluding that she was Miss Naughty Hands -- unless, of course, it was an "adult establishment" that she was working at.

Since perception of others and the reality of their situation are sometimes two entirely different things, are you able to say much for his time in the Written Word and his knowledge of God?  God does call people to each other, and even for His purposes, and often in the most unusual of circumstances -- perhaps so that there's the glaring "He did it" that won't ever leave you alone during moments of weakness, indecision, failure, and other issues.  If he's not an actual son of the Covenant of Abraham in his walk, in his self concept, in his thanksgiving and worship, and there's other reasons totally independent of this situation to question not only his depth in the Scriptures but any kind of real closeness with God, then by all means send for the guys with the straightjackets.

I have a feeling that if my situation where God ACTUALLY SPOKE on September 8, 2007 at 8pm through me to someone about them being my wife has required ever-increasing strictness of me in my walk of faith to meet with His expectations along the way, as well as the sorest disciplining sessions before and since, between me and Him, then someone else without a whole lot of years of indepth foundation in the Word regarding the Covenants of Promise ISN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THE EASY ROUTE OF FORNICATING THEMSELVES INTO THE PLAN OF GOD!!  Would be sooo much easier if it could work out that way, trust me!  ROFLOL!  There's a side of that, where that would be sooo much nicer!  But IT WON'T WORK!  It NEVER HAS WORKED AND NEVER WILL.  Struggle with the Word right now to break out of your egg shell, or you'll come out into the world without the strength to make even walking around work.  And it'll only be God's mercy if He lets you disappear back into the egg shell and come back out the natural way where you build your strength for the world He has for you.

But fornication isn't the way to go -- at all -- not if it's going to last and not if in it's replicating aspect of it's "seed" that it's going to replicate anything locally/regionally/nationwide/worldwide that's going to be worth having been replicated.  Absolute garbage for seed right now, then that translates into absolute garbage for harvests later!  And you can quote me on that one and have my phone number as well if he wants to argue his case, thinking he'd have a prayer of doing so with someone that's already been walking it out and knows what God's going to honor and what He absolutely won't tolerate in the integrity department.  God Himself will DESTROY that relationship over the "honor, honesty, truth, and integrity" issue until all that's left is them with their Bibles and having to rebuild them from scratch with the Written Word until they are a son of Abraham and a daughter of Sarah that God can honor with Himself first and then with the right one later.

Without the Written Word being the foundation of his life, that as Luke 6:48 would say, he's "dug deep" regarding, and I do mean "dug deep" rather than just having grown up in Church or whatever -- without this actual foundation for God to have spoken to him, then yes, it's presumption, dellusion, illness, perhaps demonic, and likely, [though in His Sovereign Mercy I can't fully say unquestionably,] the furthest from what He's been up to.  When that Sovereign Word of Wisdom came flowing out of me in '07, it carried with it such a supernatural gift of faith, in the 1Corinthians 12 sense, that I did carry on like Pepe Le Pue for about 3 months.  And then without getting into further details and specifics, then I had months and months where Satan was trying to steal that Word, as it says in Mark 4 that he would try.  It's been the spiritual fight of my life.  There has been no other singular issue where God's been on my case that this would separate the men from the boys where I'm concerned, where the Father would become the Son; the Son the Father.

I've got other things I've been believing God for, for about 20 years, but there was never the urgency from Father that I had to hang on as with this situation.  And my hanging on wasn't pressure on her -- that I know of -- but was pressure on God's Word in the Scriptures and on that Spoken Word that proceeded from the Mouth of God.  I think that if anyone's situation was advanced enough on the Word to where it could have been genuinely love at first touch, then it would have been mine with the countless thousands of hours in the Word and wrestling with the Holy Spirit to make my every thought conformed to His Will.  But only since January 1st of this year have I been seeing signs that this was going to go in the direction that the Lord had indicated that it would.  There's only been "light at the end of the tunnel" this year of 2009.  Oh, 2008 SUCKED like you wouldn't believe!  If your brother's simply in that year/season where it really sucks, that doesn't mean God won't turn it around.  And even if he didn't have much of a Word foundation before this began, my closing question on this is whether or not this put enough of the fear of God into him to where he's been pretty dang serious about God and His Written Word ever since this started??  I had to exercise my faith last year, and I was only 33 last year, that I wouldn't have white hair.  I started seeing stuff in the mirror, and I was like, "No, IN THE NAME OF JESUS, I'm staying totally blond. I'm redeemed from the curse of aging and fear related things described in Deuteronomy 28!!"

I know it's a tough one to call on your brother's situation without letting more time pass and seeing the end intended by the Lord, if it's legit, 'cause mental illness can masquerade as a religious spirit, as you seem aware of with your grandmother's situation.  Abandoning family "over the call of God" is a warning sign sometimes (MANY TIMES!), but at the same time, "Father Abraham" wasn't mad as a hatter when he left Ur of the Chaldees.  He did it as someone recently anointed by God to the office of the Prophet.  Was your brother struggling prior to having seen the U.F.O. (i.e. unidentified female object) regarding what to do with his life and whether or not God might be calling him?  Or did he previously have leanings towards ministry that you might not have understood, depending on your view of ministers, the ministry, and Churches?  Without knowing a whole lot of what he's honestly currently up to and what's been going on for years and years in his head and heart, I can't authoritatively say that she's not been his Road to Emmaus situation, without a 1Corinthians 12 "Word of Knowledge" or getting to know the both of them really well.

[Paul Hazelwood]

My brother who is 29 left his wife, married his 'massage therapist' who delivers happy endings, spends every dime he makes, which is quite a bit, and has maxed out his credit cards and my mothers. He believes God told him to do much of this and he also believes God has a calling on him and his new wife (whom he's trying to save) to save a country and possibly the world. I spoke to him last night after 9 months and it frightens me what he sees as 'God spoken'. My Grandmother did a similiar thing to my dad and his sister. She left him and his sister to go 'preach the gospel'. Later in life she was put in a mental hospital as she was cerifiable, I'm not sure the diagnosis, maybe schitzophrenia. I don't know if he has convinced himself according the lusts of his flesh or if he has a mental condition. Does anyone else know of anyone like this? I want to know if anyone else has dealt with this?

I know of a girl that met a man that has a ministry overseas, she left family and friends to go and serve "God" in the ministry. I have heard and witnessed first hand that She is burdened and becoming bitter but believes that she must persevere in order to stay in Gods graces, but continues to get worse.  At this point when I hear of someone complaining about this "life" that was "God" "ordained" thats the initial signs that someone will have some kind of a break down sooner or later.

I also know people who sacrifice and live life a certain way,  love God and are not known to complain one bit because they are happy with their circumstances and see a far greater picture in them than anyone else can because they are in line with Gods will walking the narrow path.



So I think the issue is if he is complaining showing signs of discontentment etc about his life to you.  Is he?

[martincisneros]

At this point when I hear of someone complaining about this "life" that was "God" "ordained" thats the initial signs that someone will have some kind of a break down sooner or later.

Exactly.

18 The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter till the full light of day.
19 But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness; they do not know what makes them stumble. (Proverbs 4:18-19)

These two verses are pretty plain, although I'm the first to admit the existence of valleys between mountains.

I also know people who sacrifice and live life a certain way,  love God and are not known to complain one bit because they are happy with their circumstances and see a far greater picture in them than anyone else can because they are in line with Gods will walking the narrow path.

Seven sons of sceva come to mind in the book of Acts with trying to do something on someone else's revelation rather than from it being a revelation to you.  In the Name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, come out of him.  And the 7 wanna-be exorcists were overpowered by one demonized man and half beaten to death and ran out of the place with their clothes having been totally torn off!  Try to do something on someone else's revelation and you could lose your breeches!!

So I think the issue is if he is complaining showing signs of discontentment etc about his life to you.  Is he?

That is a form of strife and the Scriptures WILL NOT BARE FRUIT in a heart like that.  And without the Written Word baring fruit, you're nothing but a mere mortal "stranger to the Covenants of Promise, without hope and without God in the world" according to Ephesians 2:12, although God is all around you at all times and even within you if you've embraced the Lordship of Jesus.  That is a sad place to be in, and even sadder when it's because of strife, that a born again Christian is without hope and without God in the world although He's right where they left Him when they made themselves captives of Satan according to 2Timothy 2 with that strife...  Or for some other reason are strangers to the Covenants of Promise.  Without the Covenants of Promise they're without hope and without God in the world -- although He's RIGHT THERE THE WHOLE TIME WAITING FOR SOMETHING THAT'LL PULL THE VIRTUE FROM THE HEM OF HIS GARMENT (Mark 5), and would be even much more excited when we become the ones wearing the Garment.

[rosered]

 
wow  Sarah ,
  thats hard to see someone as close as your own brother  going though this .
My  Dad who is gone on  , told me once when I was in some mental distrought [confusion] that   all folks at some time in their lives have a certain degree of mental illness  , just some do a better job of hiding it  than others
  I so remember that  "good counsel" and it is soooo true .
  Paul and Martin have touched on some things I also find very true .
the First thing ,I thought of was Jesus  telling us of Martha and Mary 
Martha become weary with much serving ..  at her wits end 
seems we tend to do that when we , at first ,seek the Lord  .
Mary sat at Jesus feet to learn   and had that good part that cannot be taken way
   we have to learn to be Marys  and rest in the Lord Jesus

madness comes with much vexing of spirit , so learning from our mistakes is the only way some learn , I call it the school of "hard knocks " and to be honest , it was the only way i Learned some  tough lessons in  the Love of God and His faithfulness
  I become nothing ,  that He become something " Huge" in my own life
  hang in there sis , God is  good and faithful  as promised 
as sure as  your brother  come into this  place [mess ] it to shall pass , and may he come out of it the better  because of it  , we may be sad at the time , ''but humbled'' by the Lords own hand [power]

  God bless all  :HeartThrob:

Ecc 1:17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.  Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

[jabcat]

This could be a spiritual issue, and probably at least partly is.  However, again, with the family history of mental illness, and the symptoms he's reportedly displaying, I don't think it should be assumed that just a little confusion is in play here.  IMO, Sara, he needs to be encouraged to get a psychological/psychiatric assessment.  I believe you're dealing with, in the very least, a delusional disorder;  and possibly as severe as schizophrenia.

Having done assessments, diagnosis, treatment and referral for the past 25 years...(admittedly sometimes I miss it) that's what I'm picking up...severe mental illness is a brain disorder that needs either miraculous healing or adequate treatment.  I'd suggest it at least be ruled out.  My  :2c:.

[martincisneros]

...severe mental illness is a brain disorder that needs either miraculous healing or adequate treatment.  I'd suggest it at least be ruled out.  My  :2c:.

Yup!  If he's not an immediate danger to himself and to others, though, a mental health warrant might be difficult to get from the judge, and most people's normal reaction to being told to have their head examined is usually a "you first."  I'll spend some more time praying about this situation, than I have already and we'll believe God together that God's Will will be done, and that if and where help is needed, that it'll be obtained without shame, condemnation, anger, denial, etc.  Someone may need to correct me if I'm wrong, but the voluntarily going in to get looked at never comes up on a background check, if that winds up being helpful info to verify and to pass along if it checks out.

[rosered]

This could be a spiritual issue.  However, again, with the family history of mental illness, and the symptoms he's reportedly displaying, I don't think it should be assumed that just a little confusion is in play here.  IMO, Sara, he needs to be encouraged to get a psychological/psychiatric assessment.  I believe you're dealing with, in the very least, a delusional disorder;  and possibly as severe as schizophrenia.

Having done assessments, diagnosis, treatment and referral for the past 25 years...(admittedly sometimes I miss it) but that's what I'm picking up...severe mental illness is a brain disorder that needs either miraculous healing or adequate treatment.

Hi Jabcat
 you also have some good advise !!  :thumbsup:
 But when your mentally ill , the last thing you do is ''go get help ''   till its the last thing left to do after all hell has broke loose
 a friend of mine  who has schizophrenia   suffered many  years  with it  and her family as well , trying many  meds and  treatments with a mental  health counselor

 She finally  moved out into her own place  and let them all have a life , they visit her now and  still love her  and she loves them  too , but cannot live in the same house  with any one except her cat . :mshock:
 She loves God and prays as well , and is in treatment every day of her life .
 It is impossible to  say everyone is the same.
 When we know full well they are Not the same, and all have to be  cared for  in a way that best suits them  best ..
 I am sorry if I sounded indifferent or   too passive in my above post .
 God help  him and  us all  in our lives .
 knowing what to do in  times of need is really a  gift of Gods grace

 Gods mercy on his  poor soul  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

...severe mental illness is a brain disorder that needs either miraculous healing or adequate treatment.  I'd suggest it at least be ruled out.  My  :2c:.

Yup!  If he's not an immediate danger to himself and to others, though, a mental health warrant might be difficult to get from the judge, and most people's normal reaction to being told to have their head examined is usually a "you first."  I'll spend some more time praying about this situation, than I have already and we'll believe God together that God's Will will be done, and that if and where help is needed, that it'll be obtained without shame, condemnation, anger, denial, etc.  Someone may need to correct me if I'm wrong, but the voluntarily going in to get looked at never comes up on a background check, if that winds up being helpful info to verify and to pass along if it checks out.

I agree and  feel the same way Martin!  :icon_flower:   God bless

[jabcat]

Sara, please see this from my first post;  "The other thing is, if he is mentally ill, you probably will be very limited in what you can do other than support him and "educate" him a little, encourage him to get help, and pray for him.  Unless he becomes dangerous to self or others, it's not a crime to be insane"; 

Still, a person can certainly be encouraged to have an assessment, even a family intervention can be done with professional help and planning.  They do work sometimes, but many aren't aware of the available options.  A local mental health professional will have information to help you sort through options, whether a mobile crisis assessment can be done, etc.  Sometimes as a provider, I've even talked to the individual on the phone after a family member made the initial call, and the person was willing to get help.  If you'd like to talk more, feel free to PM me.   

[jabcat]

Working together, trying to help...teamwork!   Different parts of the Body serving their function.  We've pretty much got it covered here guys...spiritual and medical.  :2thumbs:

[Sarah]

So I think the issue is if he is complaining showing signs of discontentment etc about his life to you.  Is he?

Absolutely!! He has basically called his new wife Lucifer and wrote a long script which sounded 'Kings James Version' of the Lucifer chapter. I had a long talk with him and he feels like he is God's last ditch effort to save her. He has dreams and visions regarding her and their ministry together. I told him that either he is misinterperting his dreams or it is the familiar spirit passed down. He said he has considered that, but obviously against it as he recently went back to her.

He decides to leave her often, but always goes back. He said it is his 'moral obligation' to live Godly with her to see if it can work. Sadly my 9 and 7 year old neices and 4 year old nephew are dragged right along with the insanity. His wife is evil....she texts my x-sister-n-law vicious things that I'm not even comfortable saying. It is like the kids lives are at the discretion of a crazy person.

If he does have a mental illness it seems impossible to prove. I'm still torn if he's just listening to the wrong voice enforced by lust, or if their is something wrong. I suppose it doesn't matter, both result in agony for all those around him and God can heal either, but I'm drained. Thank you for your support.

[martincisneros]

Yeah, just speaking as a guy in this sentence before getting more serious in what follows:  he's dellusional, the sex is that great, or BOTH!!  So, he believes God wants him to make it work with Lucifer, yet he didn't have this kind of fortitude regarding the previous marriage?  His moral obligation, if it can be called that, is to get that cast out of him and her 'cause it sounds like two demoniacs about to drive off of a bridge together.  I'm sorry, but wow!  Not even single-minded about the new wife!!  The need to explore medication options for the sake of mellowing them -- perhaps just a total change in diet since many "chemical issues" respond enormously well to a well balanced vegetarian and preferably a vegan diet.  It's just the reality of the situation, and I could probably find the studies for you later.  It's not a cure all, but if it's the kind of thing where they'd wind up being on small doses of geodon, say 50mg or whatever, as would be determined by a healthcare professional that they'd consult with, then seriously reconsidering their diet could have the matter resolved by year's end conclusively if they got help this month initially to be able to think clearly.  Food allergies can include emotional problems and blow ups, if you're aware of any dietary extremes or dietary "luxuriant living" as some would look at it.  Food colorings red and blue are particularly under indictment in a lot of research, and aspartame, splenda, and msg are nothing but slow [though viciously brutal] suicide 'cause they will destroy glands, organs, bone, cartilage, brain tissue, cause birth defects, cancers, etc.  I could get more frightening still on those poisons.  I can't even figure out the splenda phenomenon.  If you wouldn't drink your swimming pool, then why the powdered form of it? 


{Stevia, raw organic honey, and raw organic agave nectar if anybody sees this thread and is at a loss for what to do about alternatives to sugar, since I'm saying this along the way of making a different point about what some lifestyle factors are with the modern phenomenon of the explosion of mental illness in our society.  The good news is that anything you damage of the human body can totally regenerate on it's own, and particularly with the help of the Written Word being taken like medicine, if you'll stop doing what's harming the body (including the brain) and make necessary lifestyle changes and then approach God about it on the basis of your healing that's been yours since Jesus went to the Cross.  Raw sugar's also available, which keeps the nutrients white sugar is stripped of, although it's still sugar on the pancreas.  Stevia is a zero on the glycemic index and raw organic agave nectar is a 1 on the glycemic index.  Stevia being a natural product is going to taste different everytime you try it, just like not all aloes have the same flavor with some being delightful way beyond measure and others, you're just chugging it 'cause you know it's healthy, though you want a peppermint for your mouth afterwards!  Stevia actually does the opposite in the body -- the exact opposite -- of all of the things you hear that sugar will do in tearing down the body.  Stevia builds the immune system, etc.}


Still, with what I said about the difference between perception of others and the reality of the situation under consideration, and without my personally knowing them and whether or not he's a genuine man of God simply in the kind of nightmare I was in previously before God intervened, or whether there could be some familiar spirits at work and/or things requiring medication, all I can do is sincerely promise to continue believing God with you for God's swift intervention in the situation with each individual involved in this situation, and with both restored to wholeness and liberty in Him -- then they can take a look at the marriage and whether or not God's really been the one that joined them together so that no man has any right whatsoever to separate them.  The key issue right now isn't that marriage but the wholeness of both of them.  The key issue isn't their calling.  It's not their financial comfort.  It's not that marriage.  It's becoming whole in every way, letting God love on them in every way, getting the proper medication and anything cast out that needs to be cast out, etc.  I'm praying, k?

[Sarah]

I'm praying, k?

sounds good to me.