Manifest Sons of God

[jabcat]

I have seen folks on TM allude to the Manifest Sons of God, and from what I can tell, I see Apostle Paul seem to describe it...coming into full stature, creation groaning for manifestation of the sons of God, etc.  One of the UR writers I most respect, J. Preston Eby appears to support the "doctrine/theology".

If you go out on the web and google it, there's a lot of bad rap out there about it (really, what does exist that there isn't someone bashing?).  I was researching a bit based on an earlier post by someone, and came across some pretty scathing critique of the Latter Day Rain/Manifest Sons of God/Third Wave movements. 

In part, it's described as;  Latter Rain teachings today have evolved and now also include: Kingdom Now/Dominion Theology, Progressive Revelation, Signs and Wonders,  Restoration of Apostles and Prophets, Jubilee/Feast of Tabernacles, and the Post-denominational Church. Kingdom Theology (combined) with the Manifest Sons of God doctrine (believes in) the ongoing incarnation of God and (that) believers are "little gods" exercising autonomous sovereignty within their spheres of dominion.

What kinds of thoughts, information, insights, revelation do you have about this?

[reFORMer]

What makes you think that we would tell you?

[jabcat]

What makes you think that we would tell you?

Top secret, eh?

[jabcat]

Also, do you think the MSOGod are "special" believers?  The overcomers?  The chosen?  Or every believer, saved by the blood of the Lamb? 

(Since Reformer's in Maxwell Smart's Cone of Silence on the topic, someone else may have to discuss this.)

[reFORMer]

What makes you think that we would tell you?

Top secret, eh?

That's one acusation of how it's false doctrine.  Setting yourselves up as an elite sectarian group.  Claiming God makes "the sons" superior to other Christians.  "There is only one body."

Of course, since I've read the Bible through at least once I'm superior to 97% of the Christians who say they've been born again and regularly attend some form of church.

People offended at sonship are mostly the Rapture doctrine people. Regardless, there is a vast company of Overcomers who will come forth from the church and reign with Christ in all the world.  Sonship teaching is kind of a very charismatic postmillennialism.

We're looking for Jesus' coming, not our going; the appearance of the Lord, not the disappearance of the saints.  Instead of leaving, we're taking over.  Instead of expecting defeat in death or retreat in Rapture, we're expecting complete victory in Christ.  Don't let them take away the value of your life.  Dispensationalism destroys destiny by robbing the church of her true identity in Christ as the seed of Abraham and David.

[Molly]

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


"brethren"

G80
ἀδελφός
adelphos
ad-el-fos'
From G1 (as a connective particle) and δελφύς delphus (the womb); a brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like [H1]): - brother.


Or, as Reformer says, from the same womb.


Galatians 4:26
But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

[jabcat]

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I think many people would read this as "all that are saved"...I'm pretty sure that's definitely how the majority of mainstream reads it;  rather than an "elect company" chosen/having overcome from among the saved as a whole.

[jabcat]

Dispensationalism destroys destiny by robbing the church of her true identity in Christ as the seed of Abraham and David.

The "church" the seed, or Jesus the seed?  I'm not positive which you are saying specifically.  But I really believe it's the latter, and then we are His offspring.  Seems that's especially how the CLV reads, isn't it?

[reFORMer]

Galatians 3:25-29 (CLV)...
25 Now, at the coming of faith, we are no longer under an escort,
26 for you are all sons of God, through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For whoever are baptized into Christ, put on Christ,
28 in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus.
29 Now if you are Christ's, consequently you are of Abraham's seed, enjoyers of the allotment according to the promise.

Christ is the root of Jesse, the seed of David.  In Abraham we are promised the world.  In David we are granted the authority to rule over it.

Galatians 3:13-14 (CLV)...
13 Christ reclaims us from the curse of the law, becoming a curse for our sakes, for it is written, Accursed is everyone hanging on a pole,
14 that the blessing of Abraham may be coming to the nations in Christ Jesus, that we may be obtaining the promise of the spirit through faith.

Through the Holy Spirit's operations we functionally become the lawful inheritors who are the manifested sons of God.  The context of " 'the manifestation' of the sons of God" (Rm 8) for which all of creation is in travail, is transfiguration of the physical aspect of God's sons, their resurrection.  It is on the resurrection of Jesus from the dead that that God says, "My Son art Thou!  I, today, have begotten Thee." (Hb 1:5, Ps 112)

[martincisneros]

I have seen folks on TM allude to the Manifest Sons of God, and from what I can tell, I see Apostle Paul seem to describe it...coming into full stature, creation groaning for manifestation of the sons of God, etc.  One of the UR writers I most respect, J. Preston Eby appears to support the "doctrine/theology".

If you go out on the web and google it, there's a lot of bad rap out there about it (really, what does exist that there isn't someone bashing?).  I was researching a bit based on an earlier post by someone, and came across some pretty scathing critique of the Latter Day Rain/Manifest Sons of God/Third Wave movements. 

In part, it's described as;  Latter Rain teachings today have evolved and now also include: Kingdom Now/Dominion Theology, Progressive Revelation, Signs and Wonders,  Restoration of Apostles and Prophets, Jubilee/Feast of Tabernacles, and the Post-denominational Church. Kingdom Theology (combined) with the Manifest Sons of God doctrine (believes in) the ongoing incarnation of God and (that) believers are "little gods" exercising autonomous sovereignty within their spheres of dominion.

What kinds of thoughts, information, insights, revelation do you have about this?

I've not read enough of J. Preston Eby's materials to know anything about this doctrine as taught by some UR folks.  The closest thing that I can think of that it might allude to is what I've been emphasizing for a while of being conformed to the image of His Son now in this time, rather than as some kind of eschatological event.  We're transfigured by the renewal of our minds according to Romans 12.

[reFORMer]

In Abraham we are promised the world.  In David we are granted the authority to rule over it.

It is important to say in the face of rampant disinformation, misguided protest, and for those who wonder what is meant:  this is not speaking of the overthrow of any government.  God has told us to be subject to those in authority for conscience sake. (cf,. Rm 13:1-7)  It is not accomplished by political methods or carnal revolutions.  It is by the coming forth of a superior human, incorruptible and deathless, against which no weapon can succeed.

This is instead of The Rapture's disappearance of racially gentile Sons of God.

[Molly]

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.



Galatians 4:22
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.



Galatians 4:31
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

[martincisneros]

It is important to say in the face of rampant disinformation, misguided protest, and for those who wonder what is meant:  this is not speaking of the overthrow of any government.  God has told us to be subject to those in authority for conscience sake. (cf,. Rm 13:1-7)  It is not accomplished by political methods or carnal revolutions.

Uh...yes and no. :Sparkletooth:  If the Kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ and we reign with Him a thousand years, and have been made Kings and Priests before Him by His Blood according to Revelation 1 and Revelation 20, Romans 5:17, Ephesians 2, (really the whole book of Ephesians as it describes all that flows out of marriage,) and countless, numberless other passages, then there does eventually come an outworking into the natural -- that because we were faithful with this, then we're given 10 cities, or 10 nations, etc.  But I would agree with you in so far as it's not acheived by flesh means or physical attacks or the wit of human intellect.

It is by the coming forth of a superior human, incorruptible and deathless, against which no weapon can succeed.

Oh, you're on my favorite subject to rant and rave about on the boards with, but I'm too nautious right now to share anything along these lines and hope the baking soda kicks in as at least partially helpful.  Been nautious and even feeling unbareably and infinitely heart sick since pretty early yesterday morning for some reason.  Hanging on to all of God's promises regardless though, and refuse to be moved by anything that I see or feel.  I'm moved only by what I believe.  As far as I'm concerned: God said it, I said it, and that settles it.  I stopped caring about what I feel a long time ago, and am only moved by God's Word.  Doesn't mean the flesh won't try to bark like a mad dog every once in a while.  But it doesn't have final authority about my self concept, my concept of others, my belief about His Word, my belief about the finished work, my belief about the Blood and my total freedom of sin through it, or about any of my circumstances, relationships or whatever. 

All that matters is what God has said.  If I'm ever an insane fool about something with emotions running on high gear, then just tie me to a chair and let me scream the Word of God about it for about 4hrs and I'm liable to not only come out of that chair like Samson having broken the cords that bound him, but to also finally have that particular aspect of whatever forever resolved in my mind and in how I behave, etc.  Romans 4:16 says it is by grace, so that it would be by faith, to the end that the promise would be sure to all of the seed.  That verse alone is worth meditating on for the next several hours: it is by grace, so that it would be by faith, to the end that the promise would be sure to all of the seed!

It is odd, though, and [particularly] noteworthy to me that at least one person that I'm very fortunate to know personally knew at least a week ago about this French airplane disaster before it happened.  I do find that very interesting that someone had that Word from God about that.  Apparently, all of the gifts are coming into fullness of operation by year's end as I'd anticipated with some rapid changes happening in my life by His Hand and Sovereign Word.  God's always good and always more than we could have imagined that He would have been, but it seems to me like the last twelve days especially have been particularly full of His lovingkindness and tender mercies, and I'm just glad to know that things between me and Him are good. Very good. :Sparkletooth: :winkgrin:

Nausea is gone by the way.  Just took stirring up the gift of God in sharing for my body to heal and become peaceful again.  And I believe that that little matter of the heart got resolved as I shared what I shared above.  It's always stunning when He opens your eyes, isn't it?

[Molly]

John 1:33

33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.





1Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

2It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

3As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

--Psa 133


We are the hem of his garment. :bgdance:


Matthew 14:36
And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.

[Molly]

18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

--Exodus 33



When Moses requests to see His glory, what does the LORD show him?  He shows him that which trails behind, that which is to come, his train, his garment.

We, who see His face in Christ Jesus,  are the glory of the LORD.



1 Corinthians 15:43
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:



2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


[with] "open" [face]

G343
ἀνακαλύπτω
anakaluptō
an-ak-al-oop'-to
From G303 (in the sense of reversal) and G2572; to unveil: - open, ([un-]) taken away.

[Livelystone]

I have seen a lot of Christians "reign with Christ for a thousand years" that is no more than "that day" that is the period of time from them being baptized in the Holy Spirit until the first time they sin that allows satan in them to be "set free for a season to go out and decieve the nations"

As much as knowledge is required still the wisest man ever ended up with a temple void of the Glory of God because He lacked "how God so loved the world'

It certainly seems to me that there is  a significant difference in Revelations between "multitudes" and the 24 elders yet all are still pictured to be in heaven.  :Chinscratch:

Blessings

Doug

[reFORMer]

I have seen folks on TM allude to the Manifest Sons of God, and from what I can tell, I see Apostle Paul seem to describe it...coming into full stature, creation groaning for manifestation of the sons of God, etc.  One of the UR writers I most respect, J. Preston Eby appears to support the "doctrine/theology".

If you go out on the web and google it, there's a lot of bad rap out there about it (really, what does exist that there isn't someone bashing?).  I was researching a bit based on an earlier post by someone, and came across some pretty scathing critique of the Latter Day Rain/Manifest Sons of God/Third Wave movements. 

In part, it's described as;  Latter Rain teachings today have evolved and now also include: Kingdom Now/Dominion Theology, Progressive Revelation, Signs and Wonders,  Restoration of Apostles and Prophets, Jubilee/Feast of Tabernacles, and the Post-denominational Church. Kingdom Theology (combined) with the Manifest Sons of God doctrine (believes in) the ongoing incarnation of God and (that) believers are "little gods" exercising autonomous sovereignty within their spheres of dominion.

What kinds of thoughts, information, insights, revelation do you have about this?

Here is a link to what is perdy nearly the center of the cyclone.  It is at least an early heavy ordnance deployed against racial dispensational eschatology.  Really, really good!!!

http://www.gem-international.org/kingdomlife/britton-rapture.htm

Though Brittan never carried the label, the "latter rain" movement (in the 50's), more influencial in Canada that the US, disposed of Scofieldism and took up the sort of thing Brittan is teaching.  They also recovered what "the little flock" movement in China (with Watchman Nee and Witness Lee) knew 30 years earlier about apostles, prophets, and so on involving the restructuring of the Church.  The critics problem is with these truths because it is God they fight.  As is so often the case with large groups of people affected by fresh revelation for recovery of doctrine, reformation of structure, and revival of spirit there were some excesses which the nay-sayers like to characterize as representative of the whole thing.