Strong's definiton for aionios

[NinjaWizards777]

G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


I too often hear this argument when talking to people about aionios, and personally I cant figure it out either beyond the fact that it merely says that to "fit" church traditions. This definition doesnt line up with anything else ive read on the word...and I think kolasis is in a similar position regarding strong's dictionaries.

Whats your thoughts on this?

[WhiteWings]

Jude 1:7  Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

-> Are the cities still burning?

Isaiah 34:10  It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

-> Edom is still burning?

[NinjaWizards777]

Well I realize there are many places where aionios/olam cannot logcially be used to say its everlasting...but my gripe was why is it "everlasting" in dictionaries like strong's? When thats obviously not what it means, at the very least not all the time?

[WhiteWings]

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Son hands over His kingdom to father. So not everlasting.

[Doc]

Well I realize there are many places where aionios/olam cannot logcially be used to say its everlasting...but my gripe was why is it "everlasting" in dictionaries like strong's? When thats obviously not what it means, at the very least not all the time?

Because some dictionaries like Strong's have an agenda, rather than truth to promote. It was not always this way with Strong's, which you can see if you look at some of the older versions. I would go with the Concordant literal or Young's rather than Strong's.

[WhiteWings]

Doc,

Do you know if there is a an older version availble in electronic format?
.pdf, software, website, e-sword plugin, .....

[Doc]

Not sure about electronic format. I've only heard about print versions.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi NW777!   :happygrin:

G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


I too often hear this argument when talking to people about aionios, and personally I cant figure it out either beyond the fact that it merely says that to "fit" church traditions. This definition doesnt line up with anything else ive read on the word...and I think kolasis is in a similar position regarding strong's dictionaries.

Whats your thoughts on this

The root word, ...#G165 is AION... which definitely deals with TIME... meaning AGE.

Any word which is derived from another, cannot take upon itself complete DISASSOCIATION from the parent word...  AION has beginning and end parameters attached to it... FINITENESS...

AIONIOS is therefore, a "TIME oriented term"... whether men wish it to be or not.  It is given the false definition of EVERLASTING or ETERNAL... but in the end, is born and derived from AION, which is shown used in Scripture where an END is involved, therefore disqualifying IT and any of its VARIATIONS (such as AIONIOS)... from truly meaning ETERNAL... (without "TIME" boundaries)

A perfect NT example of TIME boundaries found in the application of "AIONIOS" is:

Jude 8 -- Sodom & Gomorrah are no longer burning, yet suffered the vengence of "eternal" [AIONIOS] fire...  :dontknow:

OWLAM is another word used in OT Scripture and is translated "FOREVER" yet is seen with TIME parameters as well -- While in the belly of the whale, Jonah in his prayer and call to YHVH said unto Him:

Jonah 2:6 -- Jonah notes his plight as being "forever", which we KNOW cannot be so... it  most surely came to an END.


TIME is a "created entity" -- see Genesis 1

ETERNITY, ETERNAL and EVERLASTING, preceeded the creation of TIME, ...therefore,

TIME cannot be utilized in any way as a measurement to define ETERNITY... leaving the term AIONIOS out in the "measurement cold"...  :laughing7:

NO finite can behold ETERNITY... for to comprehend the precept of ETERNITY which insists: NO BEGINNING, as well as NO END ...and is therefore beyond time bound--finite beings to percieve or behold...

GOD urges us to REASON with Him -- Isaiah 1:18 -- "come now  let us REASON together saith the LORD"...

If the parameters of ETERNITY (without Beginning or end) are beyond our ability to comprehend -- which they ARE,  ...then our use of such terms as -- eternal, eternity, everlasting and forever are therefore, UNREASONABLE... and INVALID when used by finite MEN which cannot truly understand or behold them.  Neither does GOD require us to use TERMINOLOGY which we are unable to define with complete understanding.

Any communicative endeavor ceases, when WORD comprehension is void in either the hearer OR speaker...

Only GOD can have the application of INFINITE terminology attached...

He validly can say:  I AM, that I AM... :nod: whereas we can only say:

I AM, because HE IS...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Cardinal]

willieH: Hi NW777!   :happygrin:

Only GOD can have the application of INFINITE terminology attached...

He validly can say:  I AM, that I AM... :nod: whereas we can only say:

I AM, because HE IS...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

:cloud9: Love that part especially, and especially in this day and age........Blessings...

[martincisneros]

WhiteWings,

Different word in the Greek for the chains in Jude.  It's not aionios.  It's aidios.  Here's all I've got on aidios:

Many Lexicon editors derive the word "aidios" from aei, ever, or always: but it very likely has the same etymology as "hades," which they derive from a negative, and idein, "to see;" and therefore it signifies invisible, unseen, or unknown. In Romans 1:20 where it is applied to the power of God, it's translated "unknown" by Scarlett's New Testament from 1798, because we see or know only a very small part of God's power. The word is used in a limited sense by the Greeks. Thucydides has this phrase "othen aidion misthophoran uparchein" from whence he expected a perpetual salary. But this could be only a salary during his life time, therefore the word in Thucydides means a period unknown, though it will certainly end.  The Concordant Literal will translate this word as "imperceptible."

And from "The Greek Word Aion" by J.W. Hanson:

There is but one Greek word beside aiónios rendered everlasting, and applied to punishment, in the New Testament, and that is the word aidios found in Jude 6: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day." This word is found in but one other place in the New Testament, viz. Rom. i:20: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead."

Now it is admitted that this word among the Greeks had the sense of eternal, and should be understood as having that meaning wherever found, unless by express limitation it is shorn of its proper meaning. It is further admitted that had aidios occurred where aiónios does, there would be no escape from the conclusion that the New Testament teaches Endless Punishment. It is further admitted that the word is here used in the exact sense of aiónios, as is seen in the succeeding verse: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." That is to say, the "aidios" chains in verse 6 are "even as" durable as the aiónion fire" in verse 7. Which word modifies the other?

1. The construction of the language shows that the latter word limits the former. The aidios chains are even as the aiónion fire. As if one should say "I have been infinitely troubled, I have been vexed for an hour," or "He is an endless talker, he can talk five hours on a stretch." Now while "infinitely" and "endless" convey the sense of unlimited, they are both limited by what follows, as aidios, eternal, is limited by aiónios, indefinitely long.

2. That this is the correct exegesis is evident from still another limitation of the word. "The angels - - - he hath reserved in everlasting chains UNTO the judgement of the great day." Had Jude said that the angels are held in aidios chains, and stopped there, not limiting the word, we should not dare deny that he taught their eternal imprisonment. But when he limits the duration by aiónion and then expressly states that it is only unto a certain date, we understand that the imprisonment will terminate, even though we find applied to it a word that intrinsically signifies eternal duration, and that was used by the Greeks to convey the idea of eternity, and was attached to punishment by the Greek Jews of our Savior's times, to describe endless punishment, in which they were believers.

But observe, while this word aidios was in universal use among the Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment, he never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of his disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which his contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? He never employed it. What ground then is there for saying that he adopted the language of his day on this subject? Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, he discipline, resulting in reformation.

[WhiteWings]

You are right Martin. I removed the verse from my message.

[Tim B]

I think it's because, like others have said, Strong has an agenda. If you look at contemporary writers as from the same time period (as most of the New Testament was being written via Gospels and letters), such as Josephus (the famous Jewish historian), you'll notice the term is used to mean temporary time periods, not "eternal" or "everlasting."

[WhiteWings]

To my defense....  :laughing7:
It was past bedtime. Seriously now it's a diffrent word so care should be taken to draw conclusions from that.


- All variations on aion (I know of) seem to have, at least one, meaning that clearly doesn't mean eternal.
- I did notice that Jude 1:7 uses aidios but somehow I feel 1:6 and 1:7 are meant to show similar thing. Some sort of 'context'. I admit it's rather weak so don't want to put it forth as a argument.

All the above is based on the Strong meaning of the word. Aion, aionios, aidios all have a meaning of time.
But according to your post it's not about time but about unseen. (but in everyday use it had a meaning of time)
What is the meaning/use of unseen in that verse? The only thing I can think about the chains are restraining evil.
Not in a way that the angles can't move but limitting their evil deeds.

[WhiteWings]

I think it's because, like others have said, Strong has an agenda. If you look at contemporary writers as from the same time period (as most of the New Testament was being written via Gospels and letters), such as Josephus (the famous Jewish historian), you'll notice the term is used to mean temporary time periods, not "eternal" or "everlasting."

Agreed.

Personally I see it as a bonus to even prove 'not eternal' with Strongs that's commonly accepted among those that believe it means eternal.
For ETs only KJV is inspired an Strong accepted. All other things are just wrong. That is an easy way out. It gets hardeor them when you show that the eternally burning cities Sodom and Edom currently are not burning. OK they surely will explain that away. But the aim is making it harder on them. Plus it verifies the other translations in a way.

[sven]

aiwnioV [aiōnios] (Strong number 166); Strong's definition:

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

Romans 16:25.26

...κατὰ ἀποκάλυψιν μυστηρίου χρόνοις αἰωνίοις σεσιγημένου, 26 φανερωθέντος δὲ νῦν διά τε
γραφῶν προφητικῶν κατ᾽ ἐπιταγὴν τοῦ αἰωνίου θεοῦ ...

...kata apokalypsin mysteriou chronois aiōniois sestigêmenou, 26 phanerōthentos de nun dia te graphōn prophêtikōn kai epitagên tou aiōniou Theou ...

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel, and the proclaiming of
Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery having been kept unvoiced during
eternal times, 26 but now has been made plain, and by prophetic Scriptures, according to the commandment of the eternal God, made known for obedience of faith to all the nations; (Green's Literal Translation)

The eonian/eternal times obviously had an end:

3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

Titus 1:2

...on hope of eternal life which the God who does not lie promised before the eternal times...

2 Timothy 1:9.10

...the One having saved us and having called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace given to us in Christ Jesus before eternal times, 10 but now revealed through the appearance of our Savior, Jesus hrist, indeed making death of no effect, bringing life and incorruptibility to light through the gospel,..

Before eternal/eonian times:

2. without beginning

If it are the same eternal times from Romans 16:25:

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

so easily is Strong's definition proven wrong by the New Testament itself

btw, my secular (German) dictionary gives following meanigs for aión:
life, lifetime, generation, time span, (period of) time, age, eternity, but only eternal for aiónios (though the German term need not necessarily mean endless, we do not always use our word in such a sctrict sense), but if the noun has all this meanings from lifetime - eternity, then the adjective should have the same meanings as well, from lifelong - eternal.
Beside this, seems aidios have been the common word meaning everlasting for the ancients, I can't imagine, two words having exactly the same meaning, if aidios was already in use, meaning everlasting, why coining a second word, having exactly the same meaning?

[WhiteWings]

Eternal is  a weird word fo a secular dictionary.
Nothing existed befor the big bang. The universe will eventual stop to exist of be totally empty.
So eternal doesn't even exist scientically. (=secular)

if aidios was already in use, meaning everlasting, why coining a second word, having exactly the same meaning?

Let me answer that with a question: Does the German library has a synonym dictionary....

[sven]

in German there is no real synonym for ewig (eternal), I think aidios actually meant what aiónios is claimed to mean, therefore I just can't imagine why to coin a second word to mean exactly the same as an already existing word. I hope you understand what I mean.

[martincisneros]

What is the meaning/use of unseen in that verse? The only thing I can think about the chains are restraining evil.
Not in a way that the angles can't move but limitting their evil deeds.

Kenneth Gentry, a Calvinist, startled me with saying that the devil is already bound in the Revelation chapter 20 sense.  And then he said that that doesn't mean that he's incapable of doing anything, but it's so that the nations can't be deceived any longer.  And then he cited the obvious stat that in the Old Testament only Israel knew the true God, but that ever since the Cross the nations of the world have genuinely been becoming the Kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ with the rapid expansion of Christianity -- by comparison with all of previous human history where there's only sparse evidence of the true God being worshipped elsewhere besides the middle east.  The Cherokee had their version of Moses and of the Ark of the Covenant with the Ten Laws, etc., etc., etc.  But beyond a few astounding things around the world that are difficult to account for, there wasn't the spread of God's Word that we have today.  And he attributed that to Satan having already been bound, though he didn't say anything about the Cherokee like I just did.  And then I remembered from my exclusively Word of Faith days my spiritual father saying that all we're doing is ENFORCING the defeat of the devil rather than trying to defeat him.  So, when we come up to a situation where it's evident that it's him that we're dealing with, we're simply ENFORCING his binding rather than hoping we're strong enough in faith to bind him.  It winds up being an entirely different and empowering attitude.