Armageddon

[martincisneros]

Someone gave me a hard time earlier about failing to give actual depth on the boards, [or what's a bit of depth for me,] so as I prayerfully start saying some stuff that's a little further along, with only teaser at first, I'll start with this for all of our good novel writers out there to run with if they'd like.  I know we've got a couple with WillieH and some others. :Sparkletooth:

Any chance that the beast gathered together with his armies against Christ at the proverbial final battle is the ET myth gathered against Christ?   Because who is tormented "forever and ever" in the Revelation 14 sense more than those that have received the mark of the belief in that eternal punishment garbage regarding their loved ones that might not have been 100% pure of bad habits when they died and might have been questionable on whether they had all of their theology worked out?  And what would bring in such an amazing Postmillenial Kingdom age throughout the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 more than that Titanic of ET sinking to the bottom of the ocean of the Blood of Christ?  What is more pressing in terms of beasts that need to be bound ASAP and cast into the pit more than that myth of ET?  What has been behind the Revelation 6 and other religious wars mentioned in the book of Revelation more than the dogma of ET?  What specific thing has God been sharpening the sword of our mouths regarding, [more than anything else,] so that what we bind on earth is bound in heaven?  What else has been more of the shape of a dragon that's hurled a third of the sons of God to the earth from their seating with Christ in heavenly places than this myth of ET?  What else has there been such a proverbial two witnesses remnant of, that's had such fire flowing through it and that's been martyred, yet is seemingly rising from the dead in this third day of Christianity?  What else has the beast temporarily prevailed against the saints of the Most High regarding, according to either Daniel or Revelation?  Most other truths of the Kingdom have been restored to very large segments of the Body, but this one has still been such an epic battle of good against evil!

[reFORMer]

I like that so much Martin!  I imagine you saying it while showing your teeth and salivating, just a little, because of the urgency of your delivery.

[Livelystone]

We can either go backwards and try to eliminate false teachings from the church (or the minds of individuals we come in contact with) one at a time or we can start over and teach the truth starting at the beginning.

The concept of striping away one false teaching at a time is just not working and because of that christians today are just building permanent dwelling places in their wilderness journey with one less false plank when the building as a whole still remains corrupt causing the Glory of God to remain behind a veil rather then being seen amongst what is suppose to be the Body of Christ

Thinking back through revelation history we see greats like Bill Briton who took on the rapture exposing it for what it is but in turn they remained in bondage to many other false teachings consequently fullfillingbthe condeming words of Paul who spoke of teachers who still need to be taught.

On the other hand Paul taught as a builder and so did Jesus with one truth built upon another....... trying to rip out one lie at a time as one becomes aware of them and try not to cause the entire structure to fall WHEN IN FACT IT NEEDS TO FALL IS NOT WORKING.

About the only truth being taught in the Church is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He was crucified for our sins but was then resurrected unto life and now sits at the right hand of His Father and ours......... all the rest of the teachings are garbage and it is time to throw both the baby and the bath water out at the same time.

Truth is light and light displaces darkness....... the more truth that is taught the more darkness is automatically displaced. Taking one false doctrine at a time is like trying to change darkness to light or fat to muscle......... it is not possible and will not happen because that is contrary to the Laws of God.

There is no substitute for starting with the truth and building on that as foundation if your goal is to end up with nothing but the truth.

If there is a one false doctrine platform that when removed that will cause the temple of lies to fall possibly eternal torment is the false doctrine that will do the trick but that is not how the Bible says that children are to be raised by their parents........ and not just that because in reality how many Christians are really approved of by God to be spiritual fathers equipped and prepared to raises children like the original apostles and prophets were?

IMO looking at it from that standpoint helps us to see ourselves as God sees us and the necessity that we are faced with !!!!!!!

The best thing that happened to me in the beginning of my walk was being given the gift of understanding that EVERYTHING taught by the church was wrong and there was no one but God and His Word that could teach the truth and would never lie.

At that point the fact that hell, ET  and the LOF were false teachings really did not matter because so is the teachings of heaven and mansions and all the other #$%^&

Blessings

Doug.

[Tim B]

Hey Doug,

I noticed you mentioned that the "teachings of heaven" is a myth. ..., I've thought about this too. After you realize that Hell is based on mistranslations, what happens to Heaven?

[martincisneros]

 :Sparkletooth: Hi Livelystone, wrong spirit and separatism to boot.  If the pattern of Jesus and Paul aren't to be followed, then you're introducing a different Gospel that's anathema.  The whole Church isn't wrong about everything but one or two things.

I like that so much Martin!  I imagine you saying it while showing your teeth and salivating, just a little, because of the urgency of your delivery.

And reFORMer, I'm not a salivator when I share, as far as I know. :laughing7:

[Livelystone]

:Sparkletooth: Hi Livelystone, wrong spirit and separatism to boot.  If the pattern of Jesus and Paul aren't to be followed, then you're introducing a different Gospel that's anathema.  The whole Church isn't wrong about everything but one or two things.

LOL

God was always patient throughout the history of Israel that is a metaphor of the Church.......... when they finally screwed up one time to many the Glory of God departed from them just as He has from the church.

It is not a matter of departing from Paul and Jesus but returning to what they taught...... something that has not happened since the death of the last Apostle or as the Scriptures say "till he who letteth let be taken out of the way".

Jesus said that when you see Jerusalem surrounded flee ye to the mountains............. THE MOUNTAINS ARE THOSE WHO HAVE COME TO WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH AND IS WHAT WILL SURROUND JERUSALEM IN THESE LAST TIMES

Isaiah spoke of those who would come to worship in spirit and in truth

Isa 8:18    Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

As the Bible says by their fruits you shall know them and until one produces the signs and wonders spoken of by Isaiah there is no fruit being brought forth by the body worthy to be compared to the head.

It was not the ass (the church) whose steps Jesus directed back to Jerusalem but the son of the ass (those who come out from the church) that He presented to God as the barley wave offering

Why would you want to stick up for the church?........ Jesus says to come out of it !!!

It is not a matter of  a doctrine or two........ other than acknowledging the first coming of Jesus they are clueless having been led by the tail of the dragon for so long that they consider a lie to be the truth.

Doug

[Livelystone]

Hey Doug,

I noticed you mentioned that the "teachings of heaven" is a myth. ..., I've thought about this too. After you realize that Hell is based on mistranslations, what happens to Heaven?

Amen Tom.

Pleased to make your acquaintance

When Jesus said that He was going to go prepare a place where we would be together He did not go and remodel the heavens that were created before man...... He has gone into the hearts of repentant sinners to prepare it to be the place where we will be together,'

When He spoke of mansions they were not places to live in but those individuals who had become "mansions fitting for Him to abide in

Heaven is not a place but instead is living in state of righteousness and harmony with God........ The Garden of Eden was heaven on earth and is what we are to return to........ not some far off place on the other side of the universe.

Pearls stand for clarity and "gates of pearls" is having the understanding necessary to be able see the narrow path INTO heaven........ not something created by a giant oyster but something that was made clear to David through his study of the law........ something that was taught to the people in Nehamiah when after they returned from their captivity to who ruled the world. That is why jesus spoke so highly of those in Matt 5 who would come to teach the law......... something that the church including the UR movement reject unto this day  :sigh:

Blessings

Doug

[reFORMer]

Why would you want to stick up for the church?........ Jesus says to come out of it !!!

It is not a matter of  a doctrine or two........ other than acknowledging the first coming of Jesus they are clueless having been led by the tail of the dragon for so long that they consider a lie to be the truth.

Doug

Depending on the aspect in view, the Church, or, Eclessia, is Christ's body and His bride.  I've stumbled in confounding the Church with Babylon.  I have friends that repeatedly speak evil of and degrade "The Church;" but, I understand, because I know they actually mean "Mystical Babylon."  When you switch the two, a stranger very commonly misunderstands what is being said.  If they're Christian, they'll reject it and possibly not let you know.  They'll just avoid you or say you're against God.  Ignorant people are mislead.  Thinking of the Church as the Institutions of religion, they reject it more deeply if you improve their knowledge of what is wrong and go on to believe that is why they are against the Christian God.  I had to discipline myself to say, "Babylon," with an explanation, or say, "Institutional Christianity," admitting many of them love the Lord in some degree.  We aren't enemies of the Church or Eclessia which can only really be that by God's summoning people out to Himself.

When Paul was writing to a younger apostle, expaining some things in case he was late in being able to come see them personally, he said it was so they would "...be perceiving how one must behave in God's house, which is the ecclesia of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth." (1 Ti 3:15, CLV)

I have friends, as I said, who keep saying bad things about "the Church" when they're actually talking about "Babylon."  I've mostly corrected myself; but, I can't seem to correct their confusing language.  That's part of why it's called "Babylon," which may be translated as, "the gate of confusion."  I hope you can correct yourself over time.

[SQ]

 I can only speak for myself but without the church there would be some truths I may have not discovered and also I discovered some untruths in church, it just made me search for more truths but then came the time in 2000 I knew church was no longer beneficial for me.
I don't miss church anymore. :icon_flower:

[Livelystone]

The Scriptures make it very clear that we are to separate ourselves from the lie and those who further or teach the lie.

That does not mean we cannot reach out to them but until one is of full age and qualified to teach al those "teachers" who still need to be taught the foundational doctrines of Christ as spoken of in He 6 1-3, one's time is better spent with the Lord than those who are led by the devil.

I understand desire for fellowship with others who believe on the name of Jesus because I do and very often I can be found at some service on any given Sunday with an open ear and eye for any who have been given ears that hear.

A couple of Sunday back as I sat listening to local Pastor whom I am fond of wrap up a "be a better person because of Christ" sermon and speak the Words of Jesus for communion in Hebrew blessing a loaf of leavened bread that is hardly representative of His Body I thought of Paul who would be all things to all in order that he may gain some.

So I thought it would be OK and I would still take communion with them......... heck they were watching me and one of the elders had come and sat next to me (Whom in 20 minutes I will meet with along with other christians for a "book study") so as I got up to walk forward I asked the Lord not to hold against me what I knew was wrong in their worship that I was about to take part in.......... but suddenly the Holy Spirit like a giant hand grabbed my shoulder and pushed me right back into my chair.............God would not allow me to break bread with them.

I am not going to say do as I do but just point out that Lot was told to leave and not look back at the same place that Paul compares to the church.

Jesus went in amongst the pharisees but he broke bread and stayed amongst his disciples and not the established religious authority on earth who would have crucified them all given the opportunity.

However and contrary to much of what I have just said later this week I will meet with the clergy of another church to see if we can work out the framework for a prison ministry with me getting into the prisons through their "church status" ......... but still I will always stop and take inventory to make sure their spots are not becoming mine.

To kinda sum up what I feel about what the church teaches is like picking up  a modern translation study Bible........ if you want to know what not to believe go ahead and read the notes in the margin....... they may be good for history or explaining thing like times and seasons but the spirit of prophecy (knowing truth) is the presence of Jesus Christ within us who tells us to get out of Babylon.

Blessings

Doug

[Cardinal]

However and contrary to much of what I have just said later this week I will meet with the clergy of another church to see if we can work out the framework for a prison ministry with me getting into the prisons through their "church status" ......... but still I will always stop and take inventory to make sure their spots are not becoming mine.

:cloud9: I had to crack up when I got to this part. It reminded me of something years ago, I went thru. I was trying to tell my mother why she couldn't keep something someone had purchased that had come from a bad source and therefore was enriching that source, and keeping the person who gave it, in darkness. She insisted she would just alter it a little and no one would know where it came from.

I thought about this and was swayed somewhat, but decided to take it to the Lord. He said, "If you take the spots off a leopard, is it still a leopard?"  :mshock: 

The offending thing went back with a polite explanation.  :mblush:

Truly it's hard sometimes not to let "their" spots (whoever "they" happens to be), not become our spots. I don't think it's a coincidence that a leopard is outside the city (Jerusalem) waiting to tear all who leave (rebellion/getting out from under our Covering) to pieces.  :mshock: It's those darn spots that mark us like a bullseye!  :laughing7:  Blessings....

[SQ]

One of my mothers favorite sayings is does a leopard change its spots, then she will wait for a reply and the answer was usually no. :laughing7:

[Zero7]

Martincisneros,

Excellent post. I think you might be on to something. The longer I believe in UR, the more evil ET becomes to me.

By the way, I'm attempting to strengthen my skills explaining UR. I've decided I'll use 2 approaches. One is lets debate this , my (UR) scriptures vs. your (ET) scriptures. The other, lets discuss this using common sense. As an example, imagine the heartache a parent having lost a child or having their young one kidnapped. Imagine the horror of that happening. Now imagine a perfect parent without flaws telling his son or daughter -"You know, I gave you many chances but you died without being 'born again'. So, climb up here and get into the oven I prepared for you. I have it set on 800 degrees and it will stay that way for all eternity". Even Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't that sick (or maybe he was ?) but regardless, how can people believe that? I think the Koran mentions that God heals their flesh back to their bones so they can experience the burning over and over and over...

Again Martin, excellent, excellent post. If it's not that ,then it might be the deception coming upon mankind that if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived. Either way, it's straight out of hell.

[Cardinal]

One of my mothers favorite sayings is does a leopard change its spots, then she will wait for a reply and the answer was usually no. :laughing7:

:cloud9: Well, I got God's version of a mother's "spanking" with that one, LOL......Blessings.....

[WhiteWings]

Good luck with the debate Zero7  :laughing7:

If you show an UR verse they show an ET verse.
If you show the transltion is wrong they say only KJV is a inspired translation.
If you say no judge would sentence someone to a infinite torment they just answer because the sin is against an infinite beining the only fitting punishment is infinite. Or that people actually want to be in hell.
And if all fails they just say: It sounds right with human logic but God is not human.

You can only change someones mind if they are open to it.
That's true for many things. Often vanity I think. For ETs also plain fear.

Maybe you did the same in the past? Fought everything non ET. Not really listening to arguments. But using the speaking time of the other person to remember some verses to support your case.

[Zero7]

Good luck with the debate Zero7

Hmmm....yeah...I don't know what got into me to say that. I was the same way not too long ago. Oh well.

[Livelystone]

If you show an UR verse they show an ET verse.
If you show the transltion is wrong they say only KJV is a inspired translation.

There are many members in the UR camp that use the KJV

If you cannot see the truth don't blame it on the KJV

When I was first seeking God and asked Him wherE do I go to get the truth He told me to come to Him alone and to find Him in the KJV.

Blessings

Doug

[WhiteWings]

If you show an UR verse they show an ET verse.
If you show the transltion is wrong they say only KJV is a inspired translation.

There are many members in the UR camp that use the KJV

Did I claim otherwise?

If you cannot see the truth don't blame it on the KJV

What is your next claim? That it is even better to use a not so perfect translation  :sigh:

When I was first seeking God and asked Him wherE do I go to get the truth He told me to come to Him alone and to find Him in the KJV.

Cool.

[Livelystone]

WW SAID

If you show the transltion is wrong they say only KJV is a inspired translation.

TO WHICH I REPLIED

There are many members in the UR camp that use the KJV

THEN WW SAYS..................

Did I claim otherwise?

:btantrum:

Yes your words imply that the KJV is supportive of ET and those who support ET

And I add that man is led by God to either the truth or to a delusion as He decides........so it is nothing to me that if God leads someone away from the truths that are found in the KJV ....... fair enough ?

Doug

[Tim B]

Hey Doug,

I noticed you mentioned that the "teachings of heaven" is a myth. ..., I've thought about this too. After you realize that Hell is based on mistranslations, what happens to Heaven?

Amen Tom.

Pleased to make your acquaintance

When Jesus said that He was going to go prepare a place where we would be together He did not go and remodel the heavens that were created before man...... He has gone into the hearts of repentant sinners to prepare it to be the place where we will be together,'

When He spoke of mansions they were not places to live in but those individuals who had become "mansions fitting for Him to abide in

Heaven is not a place but instead is living in state of righteousness and harmony with God........ The Garden of Eden was heaven on earth and is what we are to return to........ not some far off place on the other side of the universe.

Pearls stand for clarity and "gates of pearls" is having the understanding necessary to be able see the narrow path INTO heaven........ not something created by a giant oyster but something that was made clear to David through his study of the law........ something that was taught to the people in Nehamiah when after they returned from their captivity to who ruled the world. That is why jesus spoke so highly of those in Matt 5 who would come to teach the law......... something that the church including the UR movement reject unto this day  :sigh:

Blessings

Doug

Nice, I like what you said about the pearly gates. So, basically "Heaven" is the New Jerusalem on Earth?