pastor(s) response to UR, and ECT

[mgrateful]

First my apologies I am soooo forum ignorant, this is the only forum I've ever been a part of.

I got the "lets go to lunch we have to talk" phone call last night from one of my pastor friends. I had discerned that this would be about my beliefs, and after the small talk today at lunch he got to it. I had already let my life long friend and former pastor know that I had a paradigm shift in my beliefs about UR and ECT about two months ago. Then this pastor got together with another pastor and all three decided to straighten me out.

So all in the name of christian love and concern I was told that I am going against "cardinal beliefs that the church scholars have put togethter as undisputable doctrine for two thousand years", and that I am not  "looking at the big picture but pulling scripture out of context" etc etc. Then after a tit for tat scriptual and belief face off he told me to be careful because what the evangelical church gives us as "doctrine is what separates us from them (non-christians)." If I'm not mistaken I think he called me a non-christian LOL. Well in all seriousness this hurts, and has other ramifications for the ministry I am in. He told me to be  quiet about my beliefs or I could loose my job with the ministry, I would be going against the "statement of faith." I guess all this to say I feel very alone and I'm not sure which of my friends I can truly trust.

I suppose that I am moving closer to loosing my job, and of course the other things that go along with an income if this continues to go south. My heart will not let go of what God has shown me, as if I wanted too. Jesus will see me through like always. Please share your similar experiences with me and keep me in your prayers.

Still mgrateful.   

[jabcat]

On the surface, it is a sad story.  It hurts when we lose something, even if it's something we need to lose.

Maybe some of this will help.  God knew this would happen when He showed you UR.  IMO, that means He has a plan for you, He knew you were ready, and He has prepared the way for you.

There are many stories of people losing jobs of ministry, position and standing in their denomination.  Many have shared here about it.

Jesus got kicked out of the synagogue for teaching the truth.  He told the apostles to not be surprised when they were hated.  The world won't tolerate things that make them too uncomfortable, and yes, even (maybe especially) the religious world.  And it's often the truth that makes it so.

God knows all about this, in fact it's part of the journey of those He's chosen. 

A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.. Proverbs 16:9.

And, Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.  James 1:2,3

Father, give mg Your strength, power, comfort, and joy.  Let Him feel Your awesome Presence.  In Jesus name.

[sparrow]

I don't have a similar experience, but I will pray for you.
You are must certainly wrapped in His love through this challenging time...

Peace to you...
sparrow

[sheila]

MrGreatful

  You are in my prayers. I have not been in exactly the same

situation as you. But I have had my job threatened due to

spiritual integrity[bya preachers wife,no less] in the end I left

due to constant niggling etc.and worked elsewhere


  Also rejected by my husband and family[I have lost my mind]

  although my husband forbid me to speak of it,and I didn't

utter a word of it...it made no difference /end of the union..

and it hurts to be despised


Jeremiah 51;9  We  would have healed Babylon,but she can

  not be healed.


   This matter is totally between you and God...it is you who

must 'count the cost' of following Him.


   As for myself,I know there is no joy for me outside of Him in

  this world....and I am at peace and so very greatful,too.

                             Sheila

[Livelystone]

You are not alone

Yes it does hurt and being on the outside is lonely

However it was outside the camp where Moses moved the Ark to

It was outside the camp where the Red Heifer was made available for all

It was outside the camp where Christ was crucified

I went to a local service recently and the Lord would not allow me to participate in communion with them....... When I stood up to go up front with the others in my row the Holy Spirit sat me right back down. I think that is telling me to stay away and quit trying to go back.

Blessings

Doug

[Cardinal]

   Also rejected by my husband and family[I have lost my mind]

  although my husband forbid me to speak of it,and I didn't

utter a word of it...it made no difference /end of the union..

and it hurts to be despised

:cloud9: Sheila, that's one of the things I went thru, too. I didn't utter a word, either, didn't even realize until two weeks after I was saved, that the Lord apparently blocked it from memory that I didn't witness to him yet. I had left no stone unturned trying to find other "converts" in that that same time period, so that's why I say the Lord must have blocked it from my memory.  :laughing7:

Anyway, I was amazed that, WITHOUT ME TELLING HIM, he immediately started sleeping on the couch and told me he didn't want anything to do with anyone that believed Jesus was the only way to God. The Lord was merciful and let me realize that it was because we had a different spirit from one another now, so it didn't hurt so much. The marriage ended in due course.

Then my father made an appt. with a psychiatrist thru our family doctor who was a family friend, solely because I told him Jesus lived inside me.  :mshock: And then there was my aunt and uncle that said I was really "strange" now, and told my cousin not to have anything to do with me.  :grin:

I could detail a long list of other rejections, but it would take too long.  :winkgrin: But it doesn't matter, because God is still God and eventually He got a hold of them too, because He promises if we serve Him He will bring them all in.  :thumbsup: Blessings....

[martincisneros]

Then my father made an appt. with a psychiatrist thru our family doctor who was a family friend, solely because I told him Jesus lived inside me.  :mshock: And then there was my aunt and uncle that said I was really "strange" now, and told my cousin not to have anything to do with me.  :grin:

I guess you'd of been locked up if you'd said you had the whole Church universal, of those that were genuinely His Body, in your heart as well.  Perhaps that's why it's not an immediate revelation about having the Body in your heart as well, so that there's time to process when that whopper comes, that your overcoming guarantees the overcoming of all of the rest, and that there is such an intimate relationship between all believers everywhere; the identical same intimacy that exists between them and Christ:

6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; 7 just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace. 8 For God is my witness, how greatly I long for you all with the affection of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6-8)

The level beyond this is not a single animal falling to the ground without your total awareness, just as Father is always aware.  Someone mentioned a dead skunk they'd seen, and I nearly blurted out on these boards the name of it, but restrained myself 'cause of how it would have very very obviously sounded.

So all in the name of christian love and concern I was told that I am going against "cardinal beliefs that the church scholars have put togethter as undisputable doctrine for two thousand years",

Made you feel warm all over, didn't it?  Made you feel like a bigger part of the family than you already were, huh?

and that I am not  "looking at the big picture but pulling scripture out of context" etc etc.

Big picture, indeed. :sigh:

as "doctrine is what separates us from them (non-christians)."

Separatists rather than Christ's Ambassadors.

If I'm not mistaken I think he called me a non-christian LOL.

So said the Christian.  I've been tempted to abandon the title myself, though never denying Christ or His Body.  But if words mean anything, then we must contend for their right meanings and not allow NonChristians to define our terms for us, placing themselves in the positions of the Pharisees of old, neither entering the Kingdom and shutting the Kingdom in the faces of those that are trying to enter in.  Jesus thought the Judaism of His day had by and large become a joke, but He wouldn't deny His rightful place as the fulfillment of all of the Scriptures with the Scriptural title of Messiah applying to Him, as well as the offerings applying to Him, and everything else that was the will of His Father that He'd seen in the Scriptures growing up.

Well in all seriousness this hurts, and has other ramifications for the ministry I am in. He told me to be  quiet about my beliefs or I could loose my job with the ministry, I would be going against the "statement of faith."

So it comes down to their having no more substance than a statement of faith, eh?  What can you even accomplish with them, if they have no more substance than a statement, as judged by their own mouths?

I guess all this to say I feel very alone and I'm not sure which of my friends I can truly trust.

Every friendship can be trusted, as long as they're getting absolutely all they want out of the relationship.  Otherwise, nix, nix.  And they won't even give you a few weeks to get all of your Scriptures down for a proper multiple hour presentation of the Universal Restoration before them, will they?  Elhanan Winchester went through the same thing when he got forced out of his Church in the late 1700s over the Everlasting Gospel.  He plead for two hours, and then for one, and they'd hear nothing of it.  Finally, it was agreed that he'd be allowed to read all of the Scriptures to them that he believed contained the doctrine of the Universal Restoration while offering no commentary/exposition and they were to say nothing during his presentation in objection, otherwise he'd have the right to defend, and simply by hearing the Scriptures involved, many were fully persuaded in the leadership of that Church.  And although there was a Church split anyway, he was still able to pastor elsewhere with a bunch of them that fully agreed with the Holy Scriptures and what the Holy Spirit witnessed to them from them as he simply read the Scriptures involved.  In my prayers always, of course.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Martin, I believe all of that. If He gave us too many deep things in the beginning, we'd choke on it or blurt it out in zeal without knowledge (I did enough of that :sigh:) and REALLY get stoned to death.

As He awakens different parts and abilities of His body within all of us, we are going to be continually confronted with new revelations on things we truly could never have imagined. As John said, in the 7th day, he heard things that it was not lawful for MAN to speak. But the Spirit of God, sure can.  :winkgrin: Blessings....

[sheila]

 I see that thread of truth about the salvation of all coming

through the centuries of time...like a golden thread.


  Always there,suppressed and rejected but still popping up

  here and there.wittnessed to,again and again.


  Psalms 89;3,4  You said 'I have made a covenant with my

chosen one,I have sworn to David,my servant, I will establish

your line forever and make your throne  sure

        THROUGH ALL GENERATIONS"

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen...... :thumbsup:

[Raggedy Anne]

MrGreatful

  You are in my prayers. I have not been in exactly the same

situation as you. But I have had my job threatened due to

spiritual integrity[bya preachers wife,no less] in the end I left

due to constant niggling etc.and worked elsewhere


  Also rejected by my husband and family[I have lost my mind]

  although my husband forbid me to speak of it,and I didn't

utter a word of it...it made no difference /end of the union..

and it hurts to be despised


Jeremiah 51;9  We  would have healed Babylon,but she can

  not be healed.


   This matter is totally between you and God...it is you who

must 'count the cost' of following Him.


   As for myself,I know there is no joy for me outside of Him in

  this world....and I am at peace and so very greatful,too.

                             Sheila

Sheila,

Such a very moving testimony from you.  Thanks for sharing it with us.   I have tasted much painful rejection also.  It is inevitable as we pass through this world.   Glad you posted this reminder:

Jeremiah 51;9  We  would have healed Babylon,but she can not be healed.

So true, so true.  And yet the world is still bent on healing Babylon even as she is utterly destroyed.

Selah...
Anne

[Pierac]

Welcome to the narrow Gate. You will see a lot less people on this path!   :welcome:

Read some studies here...

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html


...and search the scriptures to see if they are true...

Paul

[martincisneros]

You will see a lot less people on this path!

Nonsense, party's just getting started.  The others will be here shortly!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZvsPqXccEE

[reFORMer]

The Word of the LORD by Jeremiah to his scribe Baruch closed with this:  "And seekest thou great things for thyself? seek them not: for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD: but thy life will I give unto thee for a prey in all places whither thou goest." (Jr 45:5, AV) Not only is that thought haunting me through the years, but the example of Jesus who willingly laid down His life...

That's the side that is not so attractive.  But I found God sees us.  He sees every costly choice we made as we set ouf face as a flint.  He actually rewards the righteous in this life too.  He spoke a list of the most important things we lose to follow Him and the Godspell.  Family first, then things:  we receive them back 100 fold with persecutions.  (Ah, but there are persecutions.)  I was very surprised as God has made these things to come to pass for me, though it has even been that I was homeless in the snow at times...the last 40+years haven't been very pleasurable.  I was just doing my "duty," as the Puritans called it.  Something about the way Martin recently mentioned imagining all the promises of God operating 100 fold, including the vindication of His servants, has been quickening me and clarifies into what we're walking in is headed. Not so much fellowship here for several years just makes the little we have all the better.  My testimony from experience includes the first half of verse 34.  Notice how He repeats what Jesus says, "Happy (Blessed) are the meek, for they shall be enjoying the allotment of the land (inherit the earth)." (Mt 5:5, CLV)   The whole Psalm is very helpful in seasons of being the persescuted needy.

Psalm 37 (AV)

A Psalm of David.

1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.
16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.

[trettep]

First my apologies I am soooo forum ignorant, this is the only forum I've ever been a part of.

I got the "lets go to lunch we have to talk" phone call last night from one of my pastor friends. I had discerned that this would be about my beliefs, and after the small talk today at lunch he got to it. I had already let my life long friend and former pastor know that I had a paradigm shift in my beliefs about UR and ECT about two months ago. Then this pastor got together with another pastor and all three decided to straighten me out.

So all in the name of christian love and concern I was told that I am going against "cardinal beliefs that the church scholars have put togethter as undisputable doctrine for two thousand years", and that I am not  "looking at the big picture but pulling scripture out of context" etc etc. Then after a tit for tat scriptual and belief face off he told me to be careful because what the evangelical church gives us as "doctrine is what separates us from them (non-christians)." If I'm not mistaken I think he called me a non-christian LOL. Well in all seriousness this hurts, and has other ramifications for the ministry I am in. He told me to be  quiet about my beliefs or I could loose my job with the ministry, I would be going against the "statement of faith." I guess all this to say I feel very alone and I'm not sure which of my friends I can truly trust.

I suppose that I am moving closer to loosing my job, and of course the other things that go along with an income if this continues to go south. My heart will not let go of what God has shown me, as if I wanted too. Jesus will see me through like always. Please share your similar experiences with me and keep me in your prayers.

Still mgrateful.   

If you have come to understand the awesome message that God will save EVERYONE, then don't be ashamed for it is God in Heaven that has given you that understanding.  There is not message more wonderful than that one.  If someone doesn't understand that mesage at the core and believes they are giving you the Gospel - then don't walk but RUN from their message because outside of Universal Salvation, all other "gospels" are a gospel of death for in those gospels death gets a victory over someone.  If death or hell can prevent God from receiving a potential child for all eternity then that is a gospel of death.  God has blessed you - look to His blessing.

Paul

[onlytruth]

Hi mgrateful.  I am onlytruth's wife - I don't post on here very often, but have been blessed in reading what God is saying through everyone.

After reading your post on how you're going through rejection right now my heart went out to you, and I want to encourage you.  We've been through a lot of rejection in the past couple of years ourselves, and going through it is not fun.  Since we've been shown UR we've been preached against in the church we were going to, rejected by every close friend we had, and we've had people praying against us and cursing us.  Every time God gives us the strength to overcome it, and I've noticed how clear His voice gets in the middle of it.  

Recently I went to a women's conference at our old church.  The first night was great, but the second night the speaker who we have looked up to in the past, came across with anger and I walked away feeling sick to my stomach.  People in the prophetic movement know something new is coming, a "kingdom mindset" they call it, but they are unwilling to let go of the old wine skins, man's religious institutional church, and they are trying to pour the new wine into the old wine skins.  It won't work.  The people coming against you in your church are terrified of the new thing God is doing, because they will have to let go of their kingdoms.  Unfortunately most leaders are unwilling to let go.  

Their words are hurtful but you will come out of it and come to the place where you'll feel sorry for them.  God has a good plan for you and He'll give you peace in the middle of it.  

Blessings!

[Mr.Irrelevant]

First my apologies I am soooo forum ignorant, this is the only forum I've ever been a part of.

I got the "lets go to lunch we have to talk" phone call last night from one of my pastor friends. I had discerned that this would be about my beliefs, and after the small talk today at lunch he got to it. I had already let my life long friend and former pastor know that I had a paradigm shift in my beliefs about UR and ECT about two months ago. Then this pastor got together with another pastor and all three decided to straighten me out.

So all in the name of christian love and concern I was told that I am going against "cardinal beliefs that the church scholars have put togethter as undisputable doctrine for two thousand years", and that I am not  "looking at the big picture but pulling scripture out of context" etc etc. Then after a tit for tat scriptual and belief face off he told me to be careful because what the evangelical church gives us as "doctrine is what separates us from them (non-christians)." If I'm not mistaken I think he called me a non-christian LOL. Well in all seriousness this hurts, and has other ramifications for the ministry I am in. He told me to be  quiet about my beliefs or I could loose my job with the ministry, I would be going against the "statement of faith." I guess all this to say I feel very alone and I'm not sure which of my friends I can truly trust.

I suppose that I am moving closer to loosing my job, and of course the other things that go along with an income if this continues to go south. My heart will not let go of what God has shown me, as if I wanted too. Jesus will see me through like always. Please share your similar experiences with me and keep me in your prayers.

Still mgrateful.   

Hi mgrateful,  I feel your pain.  Check out my thread in "Welcome Central" and you'll see I have a similiar story.  I think a lot of people here do.  I had a similiar lunch engagement a couple of months ago.  Basically I was told that I just wasn't emotionally tough enough to accept the truth of the scriptures regarding eternal torment. Which is odd as I had believed just that for over 35 years.  Of course, they weren't willing to actually look at the scriptures that don't agree with their point of view.

Personally,  I find comfort in the promise of Proverbs 3 - "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.  In all your ways acknowlege Him and He will direct your paths"  It has been painful at times, but just like you I know that what others mean for evil, God will turn for good.

I'm praying for you.

[preistsplace]

First my apologies I am soooo forum ignorant, this is the only forum I've ever been a part of.

I got the "lets go to lunch we have to talk" phone call last night from one of my pastor friends. I had discerned that this would be about my beliefs, and after the small talk today at lunch he got to it. I had already let my life long friend and former pastor know that I had a paradigm shift in my beliefs about UR and ECT about two months ago. Then this pastor got together with another pastor and all three decided to straighten me out.

So all in the name of christian love and concern I was told that I am going against "cardinal beliefs that the church scholars have put togethter as undisputable doctrine for two thousand years", and that I am not  "looking at the big picture but pulling scripture out of context" etc etc. Then after a tit for tat scriptual and belief face off he told me to be careful because what the evangelical church gives us as "doctrine is what separates us from them (non-christians)." If I'm not mistaken I think he called me a non-christian LOL. Well in all seriousness this hurts, and has other ramifications for the ministry I am in. He told me to be  quiet about my beliefs or I could loose my job with the ministry, I would be going against the "statement of faith." I guess all this to say I feel very alone and I'm not sure which of my friends I can truly trust.

I suppose that I am moving closer to loosing my job, and of course the other things that go along with an income if this continues to go south. My heart will not let go of what God has shown me, as if I wanted too. Jesus will see me through like always. Please share your similar experiences with me and keep me in your prayers.

Still mgrateful.   

Kudos,
and I guess I am In a similar position, although I have no ministry, I am faced with talking to My pastors in a Pentecostal Evangelical Church. Explaining my beliefs to my wife's uncle who was a Pastor in the Assemblies of God denomination. I am expecting the same response . But I have been called to pick up my cross and follow Jesus . I also cannot let go of this truth.
But on the bright side we won't have to be biting our tounges when they begin to preach about the fate of the unrepentant and the "truth " of the "eternal" punishment. And of course Jesus will be there for us I know because he has been there for me in worse circumstances.
Joshua 1:9 Have I not commanded thee?Be strong and of a good courage;be thou not afraid,neither be though dismayed:for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I'll tell you something He told to me years ago being faced with similar circumstances by concerned relatives, friends, pastors, not so friendly pastors  :laughing7:, ect. He told me to speak what He had shown me to be Truth, nothing wavering, and NOT TO LOOK AT THEIR FACES/NATURES manifesting, and thereby take it to heart, giving them dominion over me.

Of a truth, what is manifesting in them is no more than the carnal beastly mind, not really much different than looking at wolves, or bears, or lions, in the natural realm. Spiritually speaking, spiritual man was given dominion over the "beasts" of the earth also; just like their natural counterparts, they have a fear of us, that causes them to sometimes strike out in that fear.

But I don't know about you, but I LOVE wildlife. The beauty of His creation just brings me to tears. Even the beauty of wolves, bears and lions.  :winkgrin:

The reason the Lamb lays down with the lion is because it comes to a place where it realizes that the opposition was only there to make it stronger, because in the Spirit, the decree already went out from the King to do no harm in all His holy mountain (us). So it has peace in this, and RESTS in it. Go forth in the power of His Spirit, and don't look at their "faces". In His season, they will "lay down" with you, as well. Blessings...

[Tim B]

It's interesting that after becoming to believe in UR most of my family (my mom and my younger) has become to believe as well. My dad is very much leaning in the same direction as UR. But unfortunately my brother, and my best friend are reluctant to accept the message. (They still believe in ET.) I really think a lot of it has to do with them not doing the research themselves and that they grew up believing in ET. Also, they don't struggle with the idea of Hell as much as my mother, sister and I do. I've been blessed too though, because a family that is currently living with us has been very, VERY open to the message of UR. The mom I think has basically accepted it, the dad has been mauling it over in his mind, the daughter believes me on the subject (although she said she isn't a full blown URist yet), and the son didn't believe in Hell anyway (although I'm not sure where he stands on the idea of God and all that as is). But it's been generally good news with UR on my end. (Although I haven't shared the message with most of my Christian friends yet... they'd probably think I went crazy lol)