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Hearing God

Started by jabcat, May 08, 2009, 05:51:25 AM

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jabcat

Jesus said, "My sheep hear/know My voice".  There are times in my life where I recognize His voice more easily than others, and I know from experience and confession that I'm not the only one.  I know someone who's been a believer for 50 years and will still say it's hard for them to know sometimes how to ascertain God's voice and will, vs. his own thoughts and imaginations.  Some people may be "tighter wound", think alot, and have more problems with this;  while some who sort of "easy does it, take it as it comes", don't really struggle with it.

Personally, sometimes I may do some things that I either jump on without thinking through enough, or think I'm doing what's right, only to find out later it was 'missing the mark' and I needed to repent, backtrack, try to clean up the mess.  Some who have walked with the Lord for awhile and been matured, may not have as much trouble with this issue as others do, and especially with being able to recognize the voice of the temptor and resist him, not being tricked into thinking it's God.  However, a couple of questions;

Is it ever hard for you to ascertain between God's leading and your own thoughts/imaginations?

Are you totally convinced you're always 100% understanding God's will in your life, and 100% always effective in carrying it through?  In essence, never missing the mark?  Or do you think it's possible for even a mature believer to sometimes get in the flesh, even perhaps thinking they're doing God's will, when in fact it may be just "getting carried away"?  I've been thinking about starting a thread on Knowing God's Voice for several weeks, but figured the first thing that might be done is someone quote "my sheep know my voice" and attempt to make it a "simple matter, don't you know God's voice when you hear it?  Are you sure you're saved?, etc., etc."  So I've put it off.

IMO, it's obvious that perhaps the most mature new covenant believer that we have record of (Apostle Paul) constantly struggled with his flesh, and it did many things he didn't want to do. 

So, keeping it real, nobody judging and condemning please;  do you ever have trouble knowing if it's God you're hearing vs. leaning to your own understandings?

I'll start it off...I do, and sometimes I miss the mark, don't handle things in just the way God would have me to;  please forgive me.  Working on it.  Confessions, issues, ideas, helpful insights/edification?

God's blessing, James.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

jabcat

#1
Happened to think of a few more things.  One, was the thing Martin recently posted about "spiritualizing" everything...the hilarious little story about how various things happening (a drop of sweat on a certain place on a map, meaning that's where God wanted them to go, etc.).  Also was told before the election, that a believer I know had "been told by God" that Obama was going to pick Hillary Clinton as his running mate.  Oops.  I've said stuff before, thinking I'd heard from the Lord, when I'd apparently heard from James.   :mblush:

You've probably heard them too.  "God told me this, told me that", but oops!, it didn't happen, or it didn't turn out well.  I"M NOT SAYING THE SPIRIT DOESN'T LEAD US, AND THAT WE OFTEN ACT IN GOD'S WILL, CORRECTLY HEAR HIS VOICE, ETC.  I believe a mature believer will often hear and recognize God's voice/know His leading.  But does anyone have any personal experiences where they later realized they had "mis-heard", and in fact were acting on their own, or even out of God's will?  What did you learn about hearing His voice, recognizing it, separating it from your own thoughts or getting carried away in the flesh?
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

martincisneros

I've never heard Him when I've wanted to hear Him.  There's always been an intrusive aspect to it, whether we're talking about with being brought into the Word of Faith, Universal Restoration, Animal Gospel, and Postmillenial aspects of the Gospel, or whether it's been on personal matters.  Thanksgiving makes His voice a little more regular of a feature of my life 'cause nobody ANYWHERE can help but draw closer where they're genuinely being appreciated.  A lot of prophetic details that'll come out of the interpretation of other tongues, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, discerning of spirits, or a ministry office that I've recently been stepping into in the Kingdom where the warfare's been more intense to discern what's me and what's Him is often things that'll come into greater focus much later down the road that 'okay! knew that all along, so that must have been Him speaking to me, even if it seemed so darn off the wall when it first occured to me that I promptly shelved it and hoped nobody caught me thinking that!' :mblush:

You can develop your faith in His love and the promises of the Word regarding His voice to where you'll eventually step into Him speaking to you and never really know when things started getting soooo unmistakably clear.  His voice tends to stick around His will, so you start everything and finish everything on the Written Word, and if you're doing what He's wanting you to do to start with and eagerly running for all He has for you, then you'll be the little boy running with the baseball cap on in a certain direction, not hardly seeing beyond the visor, and He'll place His Hand on top of your head and turn you in a certain direction and all the while be saying from heaven, go and get 'em tiger (Psalm 104)!  Fighting to maintain a good, clean, pure conscience is a top priority because intuition isn't His voice, but it's frequently the microphone He'll grab if the Word's been growing in you.  You start with each situation by asking "what does the Word have to say about this?" and you start digging and laying claim to those promises and principles He illuminates to you as being the answer to this and you keep saying them and keep saying them and keep saying them until they're the ones talking to you, and then very often at breakthrough point, you'll hear the voice of Jesus, your High Priest, proclaiming His blessing upon what you've laid hold of from His Word.

He's not the author of confusion, so if you discovered in the process of working the Word that the Word started working you with highlighting something to you as His will, perhaps even with a gift of the Spirit having operated with a very specific Word -- if anything was revealed to you as His will yesterday, then it'll still be His will tomorrow with the fewest, fewest, fewest exceptions 'cause of the Word talking about Him doing things according to wisdom and knowledge, the fact that He calls things that be not as though they were until they are, etc.

The voice of God began opening up for me about 17 years ago with simply sharing the Word.  I'd be sharing the Word and would get out beyond my intellect in what I was sharing and would start saying things that I didn't know previously.  It wasn't imaginative.  It would thoroughly check out in the Word, but it was the neatest thing I'd discovered that if the Written Word is building and building in your heart and consciousness and building momentum in your lifestyle, then you'll be lead in ways that you didn't even know you were being lead.  This thread goes great with the one that WhiteWings had started asking about visions 'cause it's all the same process of the Scriptures developing in your life.  I never knew if God was telling me anything for years and years and years, although supernatural things were happening all along with the Word I'd teach in Bible studies and I'd have visions of angels and of other things throughout that time. 

First time I ever taught the Word -- very first time in 1992 -- in a Bible club at highschool, someone came to me later and said they'd been delivered of homosexuality.  Which with my previously sheltered life, that was a bit unnerving and explained to me why it was always so hard to get anyone into those Bible studies if I was packing something with that much power from our Lord by then.  I wasn't innocent of the temptations involved with that, although thankfully fortune favored the foolish and I was never confronted with the occasion back then.  But that was the first time I'd ever met anyone that had been honest with me about having dealt with that.  And they were hard for me to look at previously, but after that deliverance his face softened up and he was quite attractive after the Word had totally cast that out of him.  And I'm not saying it's always specifically a demon involved.  In that case it happened to be. 

And then within the last couple of years, suddenly the clarity started being there for once in my life of God speaking to me.  And without going into personal details, I would still say that if I were still oblivious to who all is at these boards.  It's only been within the last couple of years where my prophetic teaching gift has morphed into actually hearing stuff now from time to time.  Although, when it comes to guidance by the Lord, you'll always have that IF YOU NEVER EVER HEARD HIM if you'd simply go with the Written Word and stick to every promise and provision of it unyieldingly, being careful to say nothing beyond what's written, and as your heart is further and further separated from fear, you'll be unconsciously lead by Him all of the days of your life.  Joshua 1:8 was even available in the Old Testament. 

Those of you that are still extremely leery of the Word of Faith, prosperity ministry camps, they're still great places to contact for them to fax or snail mail you, perhaps even to email you, copies of the promises of the Word that cover your spirit, promises of the Word that cover your soul, promises of the Word that cover the redemption of your body, promises of the Word that cover the redemption of your finances, and promises of the Word that cover the redemption of your social and ministry life.  You should always have a Scripture in mind that's a provision from God regarding everything you ever deal with and every detail of your life.  And you don't wait until you've accumulated them before you start doing what I'm talking about.  Just start reading through the New Testament and start highlighting or writing down different things from cover to cover in it that would be the answer to a particular need.  And then just let that be your haunting place for a while.  Keep writing them, saying them, reading them from your Bible, and dwelling upon them at each stage of your day.  Eventually it'll drop from head knowledge to heart knowledge and when it starts coming out of your mouth from your core like that, that's when what many would mistake as miracles start happening.  Perhaps regarding the particular need, it did take a miracle to get it straightened out.  But miracles are as easy to come by as the new birth, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, being activated in the prophetic, etc.  All of it grows out of this process that I've been going into for days and days and days of keeping the Word as first priority and final authority.  And yes, it would be fair to say that you're dissecting it to fit each need, as the Holy Spirit draws your attention to a benefit of the Cross and of God's covenant devotion to you.  When you handle it that way, then it's a hundred times easier to digest it more promptly and for it to begin going from head knowledge to the heart knowledge that'll transfigure you and reshape the world around you as you speak it in faith.

I think that a lot of questions, controversies, and fears that abound, along with confusion, about hearing from God comes under the bigger umbrella still of how do we know we're being lead by Him, or what does it mean to be lead of the Spirit?  Put it in those terms and then everybody's mysticism gets thrown on the table about a couple of hours of praying in other tongues a day or how often they fast and abstain from other things of this life, or how much alone quiet time that they spend, or how much time they spend journaling, etc.  But being lead of the Spirit ACCURATELY doesn't involve having had to have ever heard ANYTHING other than the Written Word of God progressively more and more, with particular focus on it's promises and provisions and New Covenant principles of living as the image of Christ Jesus, and you'll make the right decisions more times than not.  It's not as hard as many people think.  But have a fully yielded life to His Written Word and ongoing developing thanksgiving for His provisions and you're not going to make the bigger mistakes that a totally natural, carnal individual is going to make.  You'll make a ton of mistakes, but if you'll just hang on to the Written Word like a bull dog, you're not going to make the really huge disastrous decisions and you'll be kept from losing your house/lineage/legacy/whatever in the storms of life, as Jesus promised if you'd continually hear His sayings and do them (Matthew 7).  You can make mistakes along the way and still have a failure-proof lifestyle, although that'll sound like a contradiction until you spend some time meditating on it.  So, you didn't know it was going to rain that particular day.  Doesn't mean you've got to drown!  The further you dig in those exceeding great and precious promises that 2Peter 1 says are the means by which we participate in the divine nature, then the more you'll get gentle corrections to the direction you were taking until you're unquestionably going in the direction He's wanting you to go into.  James chapter 3 calls the tongue the rudder of your life.  So, you put the redemptive work of the Cross over every area of life on your tongue and you'll get there eventually, as you mix it with more and more thanksgiving (Colossians 2:6-7).

So, yes, you'll make a ton of mistakes along the way, but as long as your life is becoming a further and further offering to the finished work of the Cross, then you're going to avoid the really catastrophic blunders each and every single time after you've crossed that line to where although fear may be around and may try to enter your heart from time to time, it's still no longer the guiding principle and governing rule of your life and you're much harder to fool than you previously were.  I wouldn't have had to have heard any of the specific Words from God that I've heard over the last couple of years to have still gotten in the direction that I'm heading.  Simply standing on the Word by faith, [although it might have taken 20% to 40% longer to have gotten there with genuinely not knowing I was being lead,] would have still produced all of the same patterns that I've been walking in over the last couple of years of some very very settled aspects of my life.  Because it was the Written Word that I was following regardless, had there been no manifestations saying "okay, turn here! email that. do this. say this. et. al."  As with the visions thread that WhiteWings started, I'll say again, we're not following after voices and whatever, but we're pursuing the faith that comes by hearing and hearing by the Written Word of God having been made life, spirit, and flesh to us in the way that only He could.  And when He wants to shine the spotlight on something, then that's up to Him, if the Scriptures don't freshly germinate in doing it on their own if they're in your heart.

jabcat

#3
I agree and identify with multiple facets of your post Martin, but the thing that jumps out is "The Word", "The Word", "The Word".  I've been sort of contemplating this thread topic tonight since posting it, and that's one of the things I'd thought of.  One way to know, is to see what "thus sayeth the Lord"...IMO, when someone says things/starts making claims, if it clearly contradicts scripture (with God's help) I won't buy it. 

That was another spin-off question I've rolled around in my head...how do folks judge whether to accept or reject "the Lord spoke to me about this or that"?  I would think, line it up with the Word, and then also, I think the Spirit nudges us into either "yes, that's good", or "mmm, I don't think so".   On the other hand, sometimes that "mmm, I don't think so" could be our unwillingness/unreadiness to listen and change our own mindset... so back to hearing His voice.

In case no one else has noticed  :smile:, when you get out here away from a more structured doctrinal statement of belief, there are sure a lot people saying a lot of different things.  Much of it from folks claiming to be taught and led by the Lord, who's points of views directly contradict each other.  Many winds of doctrine.  Many mixing law and grace, different teachings on being saved/a believer...many saying "He is here, He is there, go and see"...

Anyone, any more experiences, thoughts, edification on truly hearing His voice?
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

jabcat

#4
I'm reminded of Martin's post a while back about people interpreting scripture as having to do with Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, or some such thing.  :pointlaugh:   
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

martincisneros

If someone is pursuing Him and His Word with all of their hearts, they won't be able to get away from that certain aspect if they keep giving it time.  It'll just keep coming up.  If it's a career issue, then whether you go to school for it or not, you'll find yourself reading everything in the newspaper about it, perhaps picking up a book or two about it, and being extremely interested in anything that comes on the radio or television about it.  As you're pursuing His Word with all of your heart, anything that's His will that you're not purposefully being rebellious towards will just keep staying in your orbit. 

If it's somewhere you're supposed to move, perhaps out of nowhere there's travel videos you're bumping into on cable or on the internet when you weren't specifically googling the internet or YouTube about it.  You'll miraculously meet people from there, if God has to do a Macedonian call, as He did in St. Paul's life.  If it's a dietary change, you'll start miraculously bumping into new products at the store that wouldn't be much of an adjustment on your already high food bill to be able to enjoy in place of or in addition to whatever.  When the Word is first place and final authority, then the first the blade, then the ear, then the full corn in the ear principle will perpetually be there.  And if it's of the Word, then it'll seem like an oncoming harvest that just keeps coming.  If it's someone you're supposed to have a relationship of some type with, perhaps a very personal and even lifelong and/or marital one, you can run but you can't hide either literally or emotionally.  You'll keep wanting to know how they're doing, etc.  They'll be more precious to you than you'd care to admit. 

It's when the Word is first place, final authority, and you have total abstraction from other things that would try to engage the attention or what the Bible calls "hope," and His Word is your total preoccupation, then suddenly what's around you or what keeps trying to come into your circle will be conspicuously something other than random "everybody's gotta be somewhere."  Your attention, though, is focused on the Word and your being His righteousness through the Cross to the exclusion of other things from your attention on an ongoing perpetual basis, and then the Holy Spirit taps you on the shoulder and says "look at that car" or that house, or that particular career opportunity, or that woman. 

In other words, if your attention is on your needs, then you're going to go with vain imaginations in every direction as a ravenous animal trying to satiate them.  But if your total preoccupation is the Kingdom and His righteousness, then the provisions will just matter of factly start to be on your horizon when God gives you that inner poke to look up at something that's popped up from the Written Word you've been totally lost in.  In other words, keep your eyes on Jesus and I don't mean sentimentally, but through the Written Word, and the bread will multiply where He wants to multiply it. 

That key employer, city to invade with the very Gospel you've been feeding on, the right clothes to wear suddenly being within reach, the animals that are supposed to be in your life, and that person that's God's dream for you will suddenly be there.  The further your life is committed to the Word, then the further you can trust what's come up before you.  There are no shortcuts.  Jesus described all of His activities and those of His followers as the activities of a farmer.  KJV on Jesus comment about corn harvests was "first the blade, then the ear, then the full corn in the ear."  Well, the blade and the ear being there isn't going to look like that full corn that you'll see there someday that you'd love to rip out of it's covering and start wolfing down. 

But our priorities and our devotion is to the Written Word rather than to engineering the events of our life.  And where appropriate, sometimes those that are harvesting the Word will cross paths with those that are trying so hard to control every detail of their lives and who is in it.  A Word centered believer may be lead to an employer, an engineer, a contractor, or whatever where their whole preoccupation tends to be other types of details.  And in that case, something really prosperous is about to begin.  It's not any of our business to know whether this or that is of God or isn't of God, etc.  We're not under the Mosaic Law. 

We're involved in the laws of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus where we're simply being preoccupied by the living Written Word and letting it make it's own way, letting it create it's own harvests, letting it produce the abundance or the joy, or the peace, or the eternity, or the romance that it's wanting to produce, etc.  The Word's first.  Not anything else.  Nothing else should ever have our attention at any hour of the day or night, unless we're 100% fully persuaded that it's something that's either grown out of the Word or that we've been put into contact with by the Word.  Focus your attention on the promises of God's Word and they'll sort the mess from what's fresh in God's intended banquet for you.  Just let the Word fight it's own fight.  When it has your undivided attention, then when you're in that hypnotic state to all of it's promises, then it'll dash around all of the areas of your life like Superman and start putting everything into order, healing this, casting out that, etc.  But you weren't trying to do anything except to seek first the Kingdom and His righteousness, which Jesus said was locked up in the seed of His Word (Mark 4), and then all of these things and relationships are being added to your life as well.

martincisneros

Quote from: jabcat on May 08, 2009, 08:37:32 AM
I'm reminded of Martin's post a while back about people interpreting scripture as having to do with Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, or some such thing.  :pointlaugh:   
It's in Welcome Central somewhere, probably not beyond the third page of threads at the absolute furthest, where I was talking about it not mattering how they wanted to take the book of Revelation.  I can't remember what specifically I was using that illustration with either in the opening post or a subsequent one.  And I came up with a looney tunes interpretation of the book of Revelation and said that if that's your belief, then you're still welcome around here even if you have to please excuse the snickers you'll face along the way.

Cardinal

 :cloud9: If you have learned to hear Him, the second voice is always the enemy of your soul, whether it's coming thru your own mind, or the mind of someone else, because Satan comes immediately to steal the Word (breath of the Spirit/that which was spoken to you) from your heart.

Learning to recognize the opposition becomes really entertaining sometimes, as the enemy is very adept at using people who are unawares, and it's almost funny to see the lengths he will go to in order to try to dissuade you from God's purpose in whatever He has spoken.

This is the CHOOSE ye this day whom ye will serve scenario, as you always have a choice presented, and it's there immediately following the Spirit breathed Word that came from the Father's mouth, by which we live, or have His life, ie. man shall not live by bread (letter) alone, but by every word out of the Father's mouth.

The Father being a Spirit, that right there tells you He speaks things thru the Spirit (for those that claim otherwise). Also; depending on which speaking gift is in operation, that determines what types of things you might hear.

I've shared before that I heard Him for the first time in the shower 3 days after I came to the Lord. It seemed so loud it seemed nearly audible, but of course, I was alone. He spoke what months later, I found were 2 scriptures in the OT, in a book I had never read  before, along with a personal prophetic word for me. There was no doubt whatsoever, I felt His Spirit wash over me just as strongly as the natural water washing over me, and it astounded me that it was possible to feel both at the same time. I sobbed in His presence.

That song "I imagine" is beautiful, but I can tell you what you will do when you see Him face to face; you will sob in complete brokenness for no apparent reason. Blessings....


"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

jabcat

Wonderful post Card!  I so agree with the brokenness before Him part.  I've heard people talk about dancing, shouting, whatever, and they may very well do so.  I've thought for awhile in my Spirit that I will just fall to my face before Him, confessing "unworthy", until He reaches down and lifts me up. 

Thanks for the witness.  I've been thinking about "the second thought", and about satan coming to steal the Word.  I have that happen quite a bit, and God's teaching me to recognize it.  I can be praying, and feel a peace wash over me, and within a split second there's a cloud, a doubt, a thought, "that wasn't good enough".  I have some OCD and guess who knows it and uses it?  Yet God says "trust Me...I hear you every time".  He's good.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Cardinal

 :cloud9: Yep, that's it.  :laughing7: The funny thing is, once you learn to recognize it every time, it only serves to make you more determined to NOT do or listen to what it says. Like a muscle getting stronger from use, the enemy only serves to strengthen us as we oppose him. That's why it says to resist the devil and he will flee.

Resistance is also a term related to gaining muscle strength. We grow stronger and eventually we can overpower him thru the Spirit of the Lord, and invade HIS kingdom and wreck havoc.

And then you have, in My name/nature/strength, they shall cast out devils.
This is what the disciples came back to tell the Lord, ie. that even the devils are subject to us in Your name!

But then the Lord basically said, this isn't the end, but rather to rejoice because your names/natures are written (in the book of life) in heaven. In other words, as great as Pentecost is, Tabernacles (where you reside) is greater. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

jabcat

The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

martincisneros

Quote from: jabcat on May 08, 2009, 07:01:51 PMI've thought for awhile in my Spirit that I will just fall to my face before Him, confessing "unworthy", until He reaches down and lifts me up.
I tried that one once and He promptly yelled "SHUT UP!!" at me because we've been made His righteousness in Christ Jesus.  Better to be on your knees saying "Only through the merits of my Redeemer!  Only by the Blood, Lord.  I plead the Blood of Jesus.  Jesus has already prayed over this(Hebrews 7:25), so, according to Mark 11:24, I'm simply believing I receive what He prayed.  God said it, I say it after Him, and that settles it!"

martincisneros

A consciousness of unworthiness is simply not having allowed the Blood and the Scriptures to do a deep enough work in one:

1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purged, would have had no more consciousness of sins. (Hebrews 10:1-2)

So, Scriptural perfection is being freed from the consciousness of anything against one's self.  And how does Hebrews begin?:

who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (Hebrews 1:3)

His only enemy is our having any consciousness of anything against ourselves because we've not yet received the full work of the Blood into our consciousness by faith.  So, He sits at God's right hand until we drop that emotional yoke of sin, once and for all.

Any time the subject of hearing from God comes up, it's a foregone conclusion that sooner or later prophecy is going to come up.  Speaking in other tongues in a New Testament context, according to 1Corinthians 14 and other passages, is exhortation, edification, and comfort for the believer doing it.  But when they turn that into the interpretation of other tongues, or receive the power to interpret according to 1Corinthians 14 by believing that they receive when they pray even while it's still a mystery of the Spirit, then it becomes exhortation, edification, and comfort by the Spirit to the Church through the believer that skillfully crosses that finished line of being able to do that now.  And that progresses from the Church to the world.  Everything in the Kingdom grows as a seed, and all of it grows by faith, hence the phrase coined by Oral Roberts a couple of generations ago, "seed-faith."  Here's the highest, ultimate purpose of tongues and interpretation of other tongues in the Church, and why we're not seeing this because of 1Corinthians 13 saying our love just hasn't been there through a perfected revelation of New Testament righteousness:

But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you. (1Corinthians 14:24-25)

The millenium starts when all believers are right there and not before.  And notice, the end intended by the Lord of these fruit and gifts multiplying out of being discipled to the Written Word is that an unbeliever's secrets are disclosed in a redemptive way so that falling upon their face they'll worship God.  I guess you could take the "declare that God is really among you" as the proof that what some might call "choice in religions" isn't "to each his own" because there is absolute truth and ultimate accountability to the Body of Christ when as a Body we've stepped into this:

2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? (1Corinthians 6:2-3 These verses also settle the Postmillenial question.  Premill and Amill are answered/refuted by these Scriptures I'm bringing up right here, since I don't always bring these particular points up on the book of Revelation board and other relevant threads elsewhere where an eschatology question arises related to between now and the end of the upcoming millenium.  John 7:24 says to make righteous judgments in this life. You've got to really twist Jesus words to make Him sound like He's saying not to judge.  The teaching of the New Covenant is that now judgment has entered the world.)

I believe that this:

But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you. (1Corinthians 14:24-25)

is what Ephesians 4 is SCREAMING AT US is the matured/perfected man in Christ that all of the ministry offices are reaching for the day of; the fullness of Him that filleth all in all, as it says in Ephesians 1:23.  You get the fruit and the gifts that grow out of the Word to manifest like this.  Anytime you ever ever see a manifestation of that, then it's the healing anointing or any other anointing you've been needing manifesting for you to receive healing, deliverance, etc.  Just mix it with faith by thanksgiving, as it says above, and as it would say in Colossians 2:6-7 regarding your own harvest.  This is how God delivers from death and crushes Satan under your feet.  If this ever happens in your presence, then REJOICE because deliverance from anything you've ever needed deliverance from HAS BEGUN!

being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6)  You could paraphrase this as the day of the Body being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ in this world (1John 2:6; 4:17) with all of that power sweeping all of the garbage, infirmity, and lack off of this planet.