question about double punishment

[Paul L]

I'm new here so maybe this has been answered already, but I couldn't find it in the forum so here goes...

We believe that Christ truly and successfully paid for the sins of all men.  Yet we find evidence in scripture of "corrective punishment". 

A debate I was having with an ETist was saying that if Christ paid for everyone's sins already why do I believe they need to have corrective punishment if Christ is everyone's propitiation for their sins?

[WhiteWings]

What if you replace "corrective punishment" with "teaching"?
For example Jesus (also) died of none Christians.
So a muslim needs to be learn about the OT/NT before he can enter heaven.

Just my  :2c:

[Doc]

If I have already forgiven my child's sin/ trespass, do I then not need to apply correction for their learning and benefit? Of course I do. It's no different with our heavenly Father.

[martincisneros]

God addressing His relational issues with us doesn't invalidate His further addressing our issues with one another, with the Creation, and with ourselves.  Revelation 11 says He returns to put a stop to those that are harming the planet:

17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven (that John measured by the way  -- never did give us them measurements, did he?:-)), and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

[Paul L]

So this corrective punishment (kolasis) will happen in the afterlife before unbelievers are admitted into heaven? Will corrective punishment be needed in the afterlife to help draw unbelievers to accept Christ?

I'm just trying to understand chronologically how this all fits together and how to explain this to someone questioning UR's validity.

[martincisneros]

What we've got are clear promises of the Word regarding the Universal Restoration, i.e., those that died through Adam being made alive through Christ in the dispensation of the fullness of times when He gathers all things together into one in Him.  And the Hebrew and Greek are unquestionably clear regarding the limited duration of the judgment statements in the Scriptures, irrespective of what form correction takes, whether corrective and nurturing or purely retributive for the harms done and not prevented to the rest of Creation by the offending party. 

What we've got here is a Kingdom being put into order rather than a heaven and hell that both have to be satisfied with their quota.  His Kingdom rules over all, according to the Psalms, the book of Daniel, and innumerable other passages.  His rulership doesn't end at the grave or at the borderline of the Lake of Fire.  1Timothy 2 calls Him the ransom for all.  Irrespective of who the ransom was being paid to, whether to us, to His own justice, to Satan, to the Creation, to Himself -- avoid the areas that you don't have anything definitive on while you're sharing this in a context where you may have hostile eyes looking at you. 

What is clear is that He's the ransom for all, and all that were created through Christ in Colossians 1 are unquestionably entering into peace and reconciliation through the Blood of His Cross.  Revelation 5:13 says very clearly that everybody everywhere is going to worship God and bless the Lamb for His redemptive work.  And all of the promises of both destruction and restoration have to be fulfilled.  The Word of God will be fulfilled to the last detail of the Old and New Testaments.  Not a jot or tittle will fail to come to pass.  Every detail will be accounted for at the consummation of the reign of Christ in 1Corinthians 15:28 when all things are being delivered up to the Father so that God will be all in all.  He won't be all in a few or all in most or all over half, but He'll be all in all.

[WhiteWings]

Probably totally unscriptual but I think corrective punishment sounds to much as punishing and to little as learning.
Take worldly justice as an example.
A thief is caught and send to prison for a while. Such bad experience the thief doesn't steal anymore.
Is the thief really 'cured'? Or does he avoid stealing because of the fear of jail?
If the latter I think it's not enough in the eyes of God because the actions might be restrained by fear but the heart/mind is still rebelious.
The key is, I think, that the mind comes to a state that it doesn't want to steal even if there is zero punishment for it.

:dontknow: