....prepared for the devil and his angels....

[WhiteWings]

I don't have verses at hand but with a forum full of walking Bibles that isn't needed in this case I think  :laughing7:

We have 1/3 of the angels fallen from heaven.
God prepared LoF for those angels.
Sinners are cast into LoF that wasn't prepared for them. Or......

More accurate would be": God prepared LoF for the devil, his angels and human sinners.
Now it looks the description of LoF is inacurate/incomplete and/or God was caught by suprise by the sinning humans. Especially the last is not true.

But what if we humans are the fallen angels? Compared to heaven the world is torment. And it lasts our whole life/aion.
What's the fire? Personally I often associate fire as the essence of God. Spiritual fire. Not earthly fire.
But the Bible also speaks as our own soul/spirit being a flame/fire.
Put 6 billion little flames on earth and you have a lake of flames/fire.

??
?

[jabcat]

Thought-provoking, WW.  I've been wondering about this topic as well...I have tended to believe God's direct presence was the LoF, but then yes, the verses you reference, that the LoF was prepared for "the devil and his angels"...so, to me, that's created some uncertainty.  Many do claim this life is the LoF, even "hell".  Good questions/thoughts, some of which I've had recently myself.  Thanks for bringing this up.  :thumbsup:

[legoman]

I don't have verses at hand but with a forum full of walking Bibles that isn't needed in this case I think  :laughing7:

LOL walking bible reporting for duty...

Actually I would be severely limited if I didn't have biblegateway...

We have 1/3 of the angels fallen from heaven.

Ok what is the scriptural reference for this one (may have to revoke my walking bible status)?  I had always heard that one back before I believed in UR, but I'm not sure the reference exactly.  Where does the "1/3" come from?

God prepared LoF for those angels.
Sinners are cast into LoF that wasn't prepared for them. Or......

More accurate would be": God prepared LoF for the devil, his angels and human sinners.
Now it looks the description of LoF is inacurate/incomplete and/or God was caught by suprise by the sinning humans. Especially the last is not true.

But what if we humans are the fallen angels? Compared to heaven the world is torment. And it lasts our whole life/aion.
What's the fire? Personally I often associate fire as the essence of God. Spiritual fire. Not earthly fire.
But the Bible also speaks as our own soul/spirit being a flame/fire.
Put 6 billion little flames on earth and you have a lake of flames/fire.

??
?

You may not be far off there.  Here is the verse:

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

The word for angels there is actually "messengers".  I don't believe it necessarily has to mean a spiritual angelic being.  God uses all sort of humans as messengers, likewise so does the devil.  The devil's messengers would be demons, evil spirits, and all of the humans that are propagating the devil's message (ie. all of babylon, all false religions, anyone who is an antichrist, etc).

Legoman

[IceDash]

We have 1/3 of the angels fallen from heaven.

Ok what is the scriptural reference for this one (may have to revoke my walking bible status)?  I had always heard that one back before I believed in UR, but I'm not sure the reference exactly.  Where does the "1/3" come from?

That's easy, look in revelation about the dragon's tail drag all 1/3 star in the heaven and cast them down to earth, that what it said.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: If the spirit of us is what has been lowered into the bondage of corruption (these mortal bodies), and that spirit stays unregenerated (unawakened to their true origin) and thereby follows Satan.......see my thought here?

And WW, I've had the same thought pertaining to what the lake of fire is, particularly if you look at the word lake in Hebrew it means "a haven", ie. like a port in a storm. So since He makes His ministers (which is NOT just pastors but ALL OF US) to be flames of fire and He is a consuming fire, to cast such an "angel" above into the lake of fire to me would be to burn off the chaff holding it in the bondage of "sleep", ie. death of this corruption/unawakened. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

1/3..... For starters it's not really important for my question. "An unknown percentage/number" is fine to.

Anyway the 1/3. How should I know. I'm no walking Bible. I think I'm closer to a walking picture mag. :laughing7:

Revelation 12:7  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Revelation 12:4  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

But as said I don't mind if the 1/3 actually 1/10 or 7/10. Doesn't really matter.
1/3 seems most supported. Although some say 2/6. I can agree with that too  :winkgrin:

I just want some feedback if there is even the slightest Biblical support for my thoughts. Nothing more that some brainstorming. Not a conclusion of any kind.

Lets take it a little further.
Earth is the LoF with us being the flames. Right now someone gets judged in heaven. A fallen angel. That angel is cast towards earth. It falls into LoF. No real classicla angel with white wings drops on earth. But just a women getting pregnant.....? (or a baby born)

Watcha think? Should I cut down on the Bacardi Raz?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Like I said, I can see it. I've had similar thoughts, particularly in line with the dream/vision of lava all around. What is an accumulation of lava all around, but a "lake" of fire? Blessings....

[martincisneros]

As far as the fire prepared for the devil and his angels in Matthew 25, many make a distinction between that fire and the fire that overtakes people in Revelation 20.  Whether you're dealing with a division in the episode of fires because some people make Matthew 25 into the 70AD judgment while they're making Revelation 20 the myth of a final judgment, or whether they're going at it from the premillenial view of Christ coming in Revelation 19 and throwing nations into the fire of Matthew 25 that weren't supportive of Israel during the reign of AntiChrist and then making the Lake of Fire again into the mythical final judgment.  Some would make this distinction based upon the word "nations" used in Matthew 25 while Revelation 20 seems to speak more in terms of individuals, but what are nations if not a collection of individuals?

I'm not sure that the reasoning is conclusive for dividing the two without other Scriptures distinguishing the two.  But then someone like Thomas Whittemore in 1840 in his book "Plain Guide To Universalism" will make both the Lake of Fire judgment and the Matthew 25 judgment into the 70AD judgments.  In referring to the mythical final judgment as being mythical, I'm not discounting judgments to come, including the 2Peter 3 judgment that transforms this earth into the Revelation 21 earth.  I'm just not seeing how a Universalist can believe in a final judgment unless he's an ultra universalist and full preterist like Thomas Whittemore writing in the early to mid 1800s.  But even on the presupposition that there were no judgment between now and 1Corinthians 15:28 happening, that's not to say that Father wouldn't in some distant future age call upon each of us to do something for which we'd have to give an account over some aspect of stewardship, or how we conducted ourselves, or how fruitful what we did was. 

To me, the phrase "final judgment" discounts and negates our ongoing perpetual relationship with Him, and it's an important point to pass over very very quickly with the ET paradigm 'cause if half of humanity didn't do so well after Revelation 20, then who's to say that another half won't be lost eternally a million years after that?  As far as a third of the angels having fallen, there's a verse in the first 3 chapters of Revelation, perhaps the first chapter but don't hold me to that, but there's a verse in that verse three chapters that specifically speaks of stars in the imagery of that book as being angels and then in Revelation 12 the dragon swept a third of the stars of heaven onto the earth.

Many people would Scripturally be very uncomfortable with trying to make the angels into human beings, but at the same time, the Bible indicates so many ranks and orders of angels and of humans, that I'm not sure that you can 100% rule it out.  ET needs the distinction to avoid the embarassment of salvation to angels.  The book of Job speaks of the angels rejoicing as they saw God create mankind.  Another thing that makes it partially problematic is 1Corinthians 6 about the Church judging angels and the world, but in the view of angels being equal to or greater than man, which might be supported by either 2Peter or Jude (can't remember the location of the specific reference), then why are angels ministers for the heirs of salvation in Hebrews 1:14 rather than those who work all of God's judgments in a New Testament context?

While angels are used in judgment in the Old Testament, all judgment in the New Testament is committed to the Son and the Church.  Perhaps you could make the ministering spirits, or angels, of Hebrews 1:14 out to be specifically Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers and all of the other ministry offices of the New Testament.  But if any of us were angels, then why wouldn't the book of Hebrews imply that Christ Jesus were an angel?  But it contrasts the ministry of angels in the Old Testament with the ministry of Christ Jesus.  Some theologians do go there with angels in the Old Testament having been Christ.  I believe Orthodox Christian theologians call it a "theophany."  In my opinion, "theophanies" only lead to one of the two possible conclusions of either Mormonism with Christ being the brother of Satan, or in a UR sense where Christ became an angel in the Old Testament in order to be able to redeem angels at His cross, in the same way as He became animals throughout the Old Testament, such as Balaam's donkey according to the Apostle Peter, in order to redeem animals at His Cross per the Hosea 2:18 covenant and all of the relevant passages to that.  Just as He became a Jew under the law to redeem those under the law, according to Galatians.

But the Bible seems clumsily written to deliberately make distinctions when a lot of things could have more easily or more graphically been passed off as the continual usage of the Genesis language of "Giants," if there were to be no distinction between angels and all of us or angels and those that are particularly amazing among us.  At best it's a gray area that's hard to pin down conclusively one way or the other.  But the Old Testament "sons of God" language does give you a lot to play with on this [and to really meditate on passage by passage where it occurs] 'cause "elohim" is sooo unspecific as to whether it's talking about God, angels, or kings and prophets among men.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Maybe it's our understanding of "angels" that needs to go thru the refining fire? Blessings.....

[reFORMer]

You know how Jesus was taken for just another man by the two disciples on the road to Emmaus.  He was already immortal, yet seemed like any man...of course, until he disappeared from their sight.  This is at the least what we should be expecting to somehow enter into.  "This mortal must put on the immortal."  That means people who are alive must put on immortality.  What would be the difference in appearance from other men?  It seems from Jesus'' resurrection there would ordinarily be no difference.  This applies to, "Be careful to entertain strangers, for in so doing many have entertained angels unawares."  Just like any man; but, absolutely not.  When Jesus talked about those who "happen upon the resurrection" he says, "they are like the angels..."

What possibly will happen is Overcomers in the Church will just step on into immortality without any directly observable difference from other men, only that whatever they say will be law.  It will absolutely have to be as they say.  There's nothing anyone can do to prevent it.  It will be like the dawn.  The transition will be peaceable.  Even at Armageddon, though I tend to think of it in another way than literal futurist, but, whatever, there's no battle.  They only gather for battle.

[martincisneros]

Animals actually get quite the meal, but that's for a different set of boards to pursue as the tables turn on thousands of years of speciesism when animals fell into a worser position than women with the fall.  Armageddon is actually the High Priestly ministry of Jesus turning the tables on that, as witnessed by Isaiah 40 and a lot of other very interesting passages for those that don't have a personal vested interest in speciesism.  Which would make for a very interesting thesis on the beast and the image of Europa in the book of Revelation from a Hosea 2:18 perspective, but I wouldn't dare go there on these boards.  Only a teaser for those ready to look at it to start reconsidering the book from that angle with just the Scriptures that they know about it that I would likely be referring to in a study on that.  For those that can't put it together on their own and need the help, we're at the Isaiah 11 world minimally by the New Earth, although I personally believe it happens about 1100 years earlier based upon a small, often unnoticed statement in Isaiah 11, and based upon other passages and is the necessary requirement in the chronology of Bible prophecy prior to the restoration of Israel to Christ when they see Him Whom they've pierced in the exact same way each of us has seen Him Whom we've pierced.

You know how Jesus was taken for just another man by the two disciples on the road to Emmaus.  He was already immortal, yet seemed like any man...of course, until he disappeared from their sight.  This is at the least what we should be expecting to somehow enter into.  "This mortal must put on the immortal."  That means people who are alive must put on immortality.  What would be the difference in appearance from other men?  It seems from Jesus" resurrection there would ordinarily be no difference.  This applies to, "Be careful to entertain strangers, for in so doing many have entertained angels unawares."  Just like any man; but, absolutely not.  When Jesus talked about those who "happen upon the resurrection" he says, "they are like the angels..."

I am sooo glad you brought up the road to Emmaus passage, because that's the Word in season that God's leading me through, and has had me in for a little over a year and a half.  Luke 24, I believe, for those not fresh on where that's at.  There are genuinely moments when I feel like I'm already there, and then I'll fall on my face worse than anybody as though the bonds of mortality are trying to act as a rubber band that the most progress I've made against it winds up being the exact same force with which I'm supposedly put in my place.  And then I'm on to further visions and revelations of Jesus Christ and a further understanding of why I'm named after Martin De Porres with similar manifestations in my life, and then boom here comes all of the opportunity in the world to feel so ashamed as my coat of many colors in Christ is apparently stripped from me by theives and robbers and the priest and levite walk on past me until some Good Samaritan on Christian television finds me and gives me just the Word that sends me into orbit and I'm back in the fine robe, have the best sandles on my feet again, and am wearing that credit card ring that Father had brought to me.  And then here comes the brother [usually a Universalist] to chase me back into the pig pen with a baseball bat 'cause I haven't suffered enough in their opinion to be entering into the joy of the Lord.

What possibly will happen is Overcomers in the Church will just step on into immortality without any directly observable difference from other men, only that whatever they say will be law.  It will absolutely have to be as they say.  There's nothing anyone can do to prevent it.  It will be like the dawn.  The transition will be peaceable.  Even at Armageddon, though I tend to think of it in another way than literal futurist, but, whatever, there's no battle.  They only gather for battle.

When the Scriptures about being His righteousness and having His health, protection, prosperity, and renewal of his youth have come to harvest in a believer's life as they confess 'em daily, keeping them in the eyes and going into their ears, and keeping their hands and feet from wandering to the right or left from them, as it says in Proverbs 4, then what else could there be but -- if not immortality -- something approximating immortality. 

What's mortal?  Being subject to harm, unrighteousness, and poverty. 

Anything that could possibly be a source of mortality in our lives, there's a promise of God's Word that we can cultivate in our mouths and hearts until it becomes faith and passion* in our hearts until we gain the victory over that. 

But if the Word of God is renewing your youth and healing your body faster than the devil and the environment can try to tear it down, and the protective Scriptures like the 91st Psalm and Isaiah 54 have come to harvest in your life so that nothing shall by any means harm you because God is the declared enemy in those passages of all that would try to harm you, and if you can't sow money fast enough because you're abounding in God's grace according to 2Timothy 2 and 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 so that you're thoroughly equipped for every good work, then "a rose by any other name...." so that although some will try to argue you into a corner with their favorite verse to take out of context of Christ alone having immortality -- yet if nothing can harm you and your needs are met faster than they can disrupt the flow of eonian life in you, then they can ramble all that they want in a Pharisaical tone about Christ alone having immortality, but if you're here until He comes, what's that to them? 

They're supposed to be following Him, irrespective of whether or not you stay until He comes!!  What else can possibly be the outcome of the person that the love of God has cast all fear out of, because they keep His Word, according to 1John 2:5, and according to John chapter 8 the same truth that keeps Christ Jesus free is keeping you free?  You're seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness by praying for all, according to 1Timothy 2, therefore your paycheck, according to Jesus in the sermon on the mount is that all of these things must be added to you.  There's no one who has given up anything for the Kingdom of any material benefit that's within the realm of Old Testament blessings that won't have a hundred times as much under the covenant of grace now in this life time, according to Jesus, with persecutions, ['cause half to two-thirds of the Body of Christ along with all of the religious world won't like it,] and in the world to come you'll have eonian life.

As far as I'm concerned, I've stepped across the faith line and there's no going back: as far as I'm concerned, I'm there NOW!  So, anybody that's got a problem with that can stuff that into their theological pipe and smoke it 'cause as He is, so am I in this world, in the Name of Jesus!  Doesn't make me anything special 'cause those of us that step across that line and refuse to step back into the path of unbelief still have the Ephesians 4 and 1Thessalonians 3:8-13 burden of the perfecting of what's lacking in the faith of the Churches in North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, Antarctica, and all of the islands of the world.  (Population in Antarctica is pretty thin, but I didn't typo 'cause they have a population too.  Even clergy.  At least one Rhema Graduate that I'm aware of.)

A lot of people have made a whole religion out of "not having yet obtained" and never allow for faith, experience, and passionate love to grow to where they inherit the promises.  Not having yet obtained doesn't mean you can never obtain and it's not a baseball bat to beat others over the head with to pull them out of obtaining into some stupid area of strife over definitions of Biblical humility and the proper positioning of believers at Christ's right hand in this life, according to Ephesians chapters 1 and 2, Revelation 1:5-6, and Romans 5:17 that declare that we reign by grace through faith right now seated on the throne of God right now. 

Paul at the time of writing Philippians 3 actually said that he didn't count himself to have apprehended but one thing, forgetting those things that are past and reaching forth to those things which are before -- he pressed for the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.  The KJV and other translations insert a bunch of words to make him contradict everything he'd said in every other epistle that by grace through faith with the help of Christ's High Priestly ministry, we have already obtained all things that pertain to life and godliness through the knowledge of Him that's called us to glory and virtue by whose grace and peace have been given to us exceeding great and precious promises that by these we're partakers of the divine nature. 

And I realize that I quoted 2Peter in illustrating St. Paul's teaching in the matter, but it's what came to mind for brevity on a post that's already getting a little long winded.  1John is a third witness to these same New Covenant realities that now in Christ Jesus, we who were so far away from having these things have been brought near through the Blood as we walk in the light as He's in the light.  Our faith IS the victory that HAS overcome the world; because faith IS THE SUBSTANCE of things we're passionate about, the evidence of things we've not seen.  God has revealed these things to us by His Spirit, according to 1Corinthians, hallelujah!  All things are ours right now!  Nothing can ever separate us from His love. 

Well, if nothing can ever separate us from His love, then I can Scripturally say based upon John 17, Romans 5, Ephesians 3, and various other passages that nothing can ever separate you from my love.  We've already passed from death to life, according to 1John.




*On the word "passion" since I'm using it now until God gives me a better word: If anyone doesn't know where I've Scripturally gone with that, I'm personally using the word "passion" in place of "hope" to convey the intensity in the original language without getting into the long winded exposition every time about total abstraction and absorbsion from anything else that would try to gain the attention until the thing intensely anticipated is realized.  My spiritual father has an outline along these lines that he's taught repeatedly called "Hope: The Blueprint for faith" because real hope genuinely becomes a spiritual hologram that goes beyond the veil with Christ, according to the book of Hebrews, and our faith is what pulls that expectancy out of the clouds and into a physical reality.  The brighter the obscene amount of expectancy on the promises of God's plan, then all you're needing is the particular promise of God's Word in the Scriptures that gives you the faith to say you have it now.  And then just nurse it and rehearse it, nurse it and rehearse it, and your spiritual blessing in heavenly places will become a practical reality (Hebrews 5:11-14 and the two passages in 1John on answered prayer) where you can touch it with your hands, experience it in your body, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, the High Priest that you have in these days.

[reFORMer]

(Whew!  You're so on the verge Martin!  OK everybody, get back! just don't stand too close to Martin...in case he blows...any moment now...I'm feeling seismic shocks right now already...)

[martincisneros]

(Whew!  You're so on the verge Martin!  OK everybody, get back! just don't stand too close to Martin...in case he blows...any moment now...I'm feeling seismic shocks right now already...)

LOL!  I'm just genuinely grateful that He'll have anything to do with me, particularly after a couple of years ago when I totally blew a very key situation to the progress of the anointing and the harvesting of the Word of God in my life.  He spoke to me in no uncertain terms a couple of years ago with the greatest clarity of my life that this, this, and this will mean from this point forward growth that would be in terms of light years from then on, or in Biblical terms, going from one Jubilee to the next with living in just a perpetual Jubilee of His High Priestly ministry at work in my life.  And of course, because He gave me something that was so front and center to everything that's ever been the most important to His plan for my life, guess what's the first thing that I sunk like the Titanic on the iceberg of my blushingly-humble, childlikeness! 

Blithering idiot comes to mind when I look in the mirror, but He's been telling me since at least the beginning, perhaps May, of last year "I've got your back on this."  He's actually put it that way a couple of times.  I'm starting to believe Him on that, and am seeing what might be teeny signs of a piece of bread that's about to break, although it's still in the shadows and I can't be certain of possible hints that I'm maybe/possibly/potentially seeing, mostly gut hunches on my part that my mind's trying to be rationally objective about as possibly being anything other than what I'm seeing, desperately trying to avoid anything approximating a conceited outlook about a deeply important situation to me 'cause it's over in that "too good to be true" area that's exceedingly and abundantly above and beyond all that I could ask, think, or imagine.  And I'm scratching my head on Ephesians 1:16-23 and Ephesians 3:14-21 asking Him with some degree of repetition, but hopefully not disbelief, if that much power is actually working in me 'cause maybe...just maybe....

He spoke many things to them regarding the death and resurrection of Christ and the fulfillment of all of the Scriptures because the plan of God had to come to pass.  Their hearts burned with passion in them as He spoke, as they kept walking.  Then when they got to where they were going, He acted like he was going to keep on walking, but they compelled Him to eat with them.  They didn't know who He was, but in the breaking of bread, they suddenly knew who He was and the moment the Word transfered Him from their eyes and ears into their heart, suddenly He vanished. (Luke 24, my paraphrase of course.)

He's unquestionably my Best Friend if He's actually reclaiming the situation that He's the one that put me on the spot to start with regarding, and made me look unquestionably like an idiot.  But, I've been hearing from Him what's not a very popular concept among Christians, but it's all over the Bible, particularly in St. Paul's pastoral epistles, Proverbs, Psalms, and Ecclesiastes that He's redeeming me all of the way to my reputation so that rather than looking like an absolute fool, much of what He's had me to do will in retrospect be reclaimed as the gutsiest stuff that could have been done in the annals of Christian history.  Here he's talking to me about the restoration of my reputation, and many of the Christians that are the closest to my life in Fort Worth are merely choking on Him having said something to me about certain things coming my way before very long. 

Money's a whole lot easier to restore than reputation.  Reputation, when you've honestly done all He's asked of you, is for Him to put everything into it's proper light and shout it from the rooftops in such a way where the gossiping part of the Deuteronomy 28 curse can't tear you down ever again.  Job's reputation for the rest of his life after the last chapter of Job was magnificient, spectacular, and flawless -- the very immortality promised in Romans 2 when you scrutinize the peculiar quest for immortality in that chapter and realize it's substance is eonian life.  A lot of people totally misunderstand and misrepresent God's covenantal dealings in Job's life, but his reputation is a perfect representation of Christ.  They can't morally or in any other way impugn the man. 

If people can't handle a Scriptural revelation of Godly economics in the Kingdom of Christ, then how can God give them the true riches which the Scriptures indicate are more precious than silver and gold and evidently therefore require a higher degree of faith, passionate love, and consistency in pursuing the Kingdom and His righteousness to obtain, such as a godly reputation that's unimpeachable?  The Scriptures talk about coming to a place where your value as a human being to others is without question, where it's immortal.  Where they can't tear down your image!  Imagine having a Name in this world that's greater than Mother Theresa's!  Galatians 3 talks about the blessing of Abraham coming upon the Gentiles through Christ Jesus. 

Health, wealth, spiritual inheritance, possessing the gate of your enemies, and all that goes along with that in both the heavens and earth as the very possessors of heaven and earth.  All of that's been covered in some way among all of the Word of Faith and Christian Universalist Bible teachers of the present and previous eras.  But God said, and it's relevant to us because Galatians 3 says it's ours in Christ as recipients of the blessing of Abraham through faith -- God said not only what He said about the blessing.  But He also said, I'll make your Name great.  I'm over into an area of holiness that for the Scripturally vile is nothing but a vanity of vanities.  Psalm 112 says about this that the memory of the upright will be blessed. 

This gets over into an area of the hundredfold that many even within Word of Faith circles have heard very little about.  Jesus said that anything that you give up for His sake and the Gospel's you'll have back a hundredfold in this life and in the world to come eonian life.  When you actually obey Him every step along the way, and you're thought the worst for it by others, you have a Scriptural right to stand on a minimum of a hundredfold restoration of your reputation.  Now, in saying this, I'm presupposing an honorable life that regarding giving one's word, as it says in Psalm 15, that you swear to your own hurt and don't change EVER.  Your word's gotta be that good, for you to be able to believe His Word that thoroughly 'cause this gets over into one of those "with every ounce of your faith" kinda situations where you'll inherit the promise. 

If this were one of the easier things to inherit, then we'd be hearing all of the time about the miracle crusades that resulted in this, but instead it winds up being about bodily healing, financial restoration, soundness of mind and a more systematized understanding of one's life hid in Christ in God, restoration of relationships, and the destruction of addictions.  But having God's gift of a good reputation is one of those 24/7 areas of pressing in, where if you're not willing to really press in for it, then game over: back up to the easier levels and inherit all of those promises, but you're not ready for this area of the big leagues of the Word.  "A good name is more desirable than great riches, and loving favor is better than silver and gold." (Proverbs 22:1)

This is a level that's attainable by all of us, but it's a 24/7 commitment to each and every single principle of the New Testament.  There are no shortcuts to this.  Deuteronomy 1:11 even indicates to me a thousandfold blessing available to this level of believing.  God beautifies the meek with salvation, according to Psalm 149:4.  This is in the area of one of those beauties that we're supposed to enter into in this life.  If everything about you isn't being beautified, step-by-step with steady, even if seemingly slow, progress, are you sure you're participating in the divine nature?  Our sole suffering as believers that's granted to us in the Scriptures is that absolutely anything He bore for us on the Cross, we're obligated to resist it from our lives:

14[For many the Servant of God became an object of horror; many were astonished at Him.] His face and His whole appearance were marred more than any man's, and His form beyond that of the sons of men--Isaiah 52:14 Amplified Bible

3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Isaiah 53:3 NIV

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Good post, Martin. The Lord spoke to me some years back that I was on the road to Emmaus. Shortly after that, I'm talking about 10 days, I was on my way to OK to see Him in another form. He does lead us thru the book. Blessings...