Does satan exist - "Nightline Face-Off"

[WhiteWings]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=7071125&page=1

[martincisneros]

 :sigh: I know that Carlton's main agenda is to reach out to the unbeliever when he's on television.  Just seems like everytime he's on television that he needlessly polarizes more and more Christians against UR.  Seems like quite a few UR folks are content to do that, and yet when I read St. Paul's writings, even in Ephesians 4, he calls even the Evangelist a gift to the Body rather than to the world.  I don't know.  Perhaps there's a place for what he does.  And perhaps this is some of the frustration/annoyance of how this year has started for me sorta bleeding over into this comment.  If so, then I'll retract later if I feel differently, more clear headed, or whatever, about it.  But I genuinely just wish that folks like Carlton would just go away 'cause they do more harm than good.  All he does is slander the Gospel. :doh: :BangHead:

[firstborn888]

Granted, his presentation wasn't all I hoped for my Christian fundie friends to see yet here is a major evangelical mover and shaker who went down for a theological principle as opposed to going down for ripping folks off or for sexual promiscuity :mshock:. HOW REFRESHING!!!  :thumbsup:

This guy is my hero anyway you look at it. Lost everything for what he believed in and didn't back down.

[WhiteWings]

Never heard of any of the people in that program. Not even about the progam itself.
I received an e-mail with teh link in it this morning before going to office. Just dumped it here....
I've read a little about that Carlton guy. At least he's pro UR but his own interpretation of it.
Could be wrong but at least it gives far more credit to Jesus that the ETs IMO.

I find some of his points contradicting. Or perhaps they just are badly summarized..

A. The death of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection paid the price for all of humanity to have eternal life in heaven, without any requirement to repent of sins and receive salvation.

B. Belief in Jesus Christ, is not necessary for a person to go to heaven. Salvation is unconditional, granted by the grace of God to every human being.

C. It is presumed that all of humanity will have its destiny in heaven, whether they realize it or not.

D. All of humanity will go to heaven regardless of their religious affiliation, including those who believe in false religions or adopt any other form of religious persuasion, or who have no religious persuasion.

E. Only those who have "tasted of the fruits" of real intimacy with Christ and have "intentionally and consciously rejected" the grace of God will spend eternity separated from God.

F. There are persons in some type of hell, but the emphasis is "to get away from the picture of an angry, intolerant God. I don't see God that bitter."

More on his type of UR: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10pearso.htm

[Doc]

Never heard of any of the people in that program. Not even about the progam itself.
I received an e-mail with teh link in it this morning before going to office. Just dumped it here....
I've read a little about that Carlton guy. At least he's pro UR but his own interpretation of it.
Could be wrong but at least it gives far more credit to Jesus that the ETs IMO.

I find some of his points contradicting. Or perhaps they just are badly summarized..

A. The death of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection paid the price for all of humanity to have eternal life in heaven, without any requirement to repent of sins and receive salvation.

B. Belief in Jesus Christ, is not necessary for a person to go to heaven. Salvation is unconditional, granted by the grace of God to every human being.

C. It is presumed that all of humanity will have its destiny in heaven, whether they realize it or not.

D. All of humanity will go to heaven regardless of their religious affiliation, including those who believe in false religions or adopt any other form of religious persuasion, or who have no religious persuasion.

E. Only those who have "tasted of the fruits" of real intimacy with Christ and have "intentionally and consciously rejected" the grace of God will spend eternity separated from God.

F. There are persons in some type of hell, but the emphasis is "to get away from the picture of an angry, intolerant God. I don't see God that bitter."

More on his type of UR: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10pearso.htm

Well, I've seen the first four points in other places as well, but the last few after that do seem to contradict the first four.
In terms of the first four points, I've seen something very similar on the gospelogic website.

[WhiteWings]

Point E sounds a bit like the "unpardonable sin".
Matthew 12:31  And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Or is it completely unrelated?

[firstborn888]

E. Only those who have "tasted of the fruits" of real intimacy with Christ and have "intentionally and consciously rejected" the grace of God will spend eternity separated from God.

F. There are persons in some type of hell, but the emphasis is "to get away from the picture of an angry, intolerant God. I don't see God that bitter."

Well, I've seen the first four points in other places as well, but the last few after that do seem to contradict the first four.
In terms of the first four points, I've seen something very similar on the gospelogic website.
[/quote]

Yeah, the last two make 'getting saved' the only danger to your soul. Nuts!!!

[firstborn888]

It is done.  :winkgrin:

Here's the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/nightline/faceoff

[fire walker]

:sigh: I know that Carlton's main agenda is to reach out to the unbeliever

  But I genuinely just wish that folks like Carlton would just go away 'cause they do more harm than good.  All he does is slander the Gospel. :doh: :BangHead:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well Martin

AS you say Carlton is reaching out to those who are in unbelief,, there is nothing he has written or said that ever polorized me against UR, I may not understand or agree with everything he preaches, in fact points E and F posted in this thread , yet I see a compassionate loving spirit in the Lord at work with him and we know that love works no evil,  he stands up to the traditionly mainline fundimental religious institutions and their doctrines without cowering, backing down or bowing to men going along with the mainline status quo, he lost everything in this world as far as what he had prior in worldly status and standing, however he is not seekng to be of reputation amoung men especially amoung the literal fundimentaly to the letter religious folks , that does not hinder him in spirit,I have to say I support his  God given courage to stand firm in what has been revealed to him, so he has been given to move in the word in a way in which others have not, what is that to me ?,  besides that we follow no man,  this is between Carlton and the Lord not Carlton and me, at the least he isn't the  treaditional status quo cookie cutter model stamped out and molded by the mainline religious traditions and doctrines of men that much is obvious.

Peace,
Fire Walker

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I don't agree with all his conclusions either, but it's clear that God shook him up and changed the way he looks at things, and I have to admire his "standing" on his knees during his time of purging in the fire.

It would be hard to lose that much, and I know of one very preeminent minister of the gospel who was shown the truth and decided to hide his revelation rather than risk losing his standing, so Carlton stands out even more to me. Blessings....

[Redlettervoice]

quote fire walker: besides that we follow no man,  this is between Carlton and the Lord not Carlton and me,


Yes, let that sink down within us...........

[Akira Takahashi]

Cool!  Is this an extention of the Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort debate?  I posted that one last night, but this one seems much more interesting.

I haven't gotten all the way through it yet, but it would seem that Carlton is well on his journey with the Lord.