Context of Scripture

[jabcat]

I thought about those scriptures too in Galatians 1. . .

I'm going to look at some different translations...I'm wondering if these scriptures are saying (and maybe they are) that there absolutely is no other evangel, or rather that those to whom Paul was speaking were not to accept another/different evangel...going from grace to the Law, for instance?  However it all fits together, I believe Jesus, the cross, the resurrection, has to end up being the defining point.

---------------
Later, modifying my post....I looked up the Concordant Commentary on the passage, which is where it's taken from (CLV)...has this to say...

"The two evangels were different in kind and could not be classed together. They had been called in the grace of Christ. They were being transferred to the bondage of law.

8 The intense zeal of the apostle for the evangel he had proclaimed comes out in the fact that he calls down this anathema on himself, in case he should be guilty of distorting the message he is proclaiming. It is worthy of note that he is not objecting to the apostles of the Circumcision preaching a distinct evangel to them. That was what they had been commissioned for. But they had agreed that they would not go to the nations. Hence he repeats the words to you thrice.

9 The apostle now includes the Judaising teachers in the second anathema.

11 Those who were disturbing the Galatians had no message except what they had received from the twelve apostles. But Paul is unwearied in his insistence that he received nothing from them. His evangel was a fresh revelation made known to him by the Lord Himself. If Paul merely proclaimed what the twelve taught, why did he not receive it through them? What need for the Lord to descend and call him on the Damascus road? Why should he be severed from the rest at Antioch? Why did the believing Jews in Jerusalem oppose his ministry among the nations?

14 While his opposers know nothing of the grace of Paul's evangel, he was better acquainted with Judaism than they were. And not only so, but he had exceeded them in the energy and zeal with which he had defended it."

I'm gonna keep digging...maybe I'll find some "treasures"... :happy3:

[Molly]

There's no reason to believe the "gospel to the circumcision" is a different gospel than what is to be preached as "gospel to the uncircumcision," or, nations.

Yes, so there was always only one covenant:  the covenant made with Abraham and his seed. This preceded and was never annulled by the covenant with death made by the Israelites, nor were they able to keep that covenant.  But this one with Abraham stands because God himself keeps it.

[jabcat]

Yes, the Seed, Jesus Messiah...however all this is properly divided, He's still the blood-line through it all...

[CHB]

Hi jabcat,

Thought you might be interested in reading this. Although I don't agree 100% with all he says, I found these articles very enlightening. You have to read all 7 parts to really get it though.

http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreTheBrideAndBodyIdentical0.html

CHB

[jabcat]

I'll look at it, thanks Charlotte.  In the middle of painting a wall right now, later  :happy3:

[jabcat]

Wow, what an awesome study!  I need to spend more time in it, it's pretty involved...IMO, should be "required reading"  :icon_flower:.  Seems there is much to learn here if approached openly.  Even if it weren't 100% accurate  :dontknow:, there still seems plenty to consider.

A few things from it I'll note now, more about Paul's ministry later...I need to explore it more  :thumbsup:.  Thanks for the link!

According to the author, Knoch(?), as I gather so far;

The bride and body are not the same "entity".
Israel = the bride
Gentiles, nations = the body, grafted in

The 12 will reign over the renewal of Israel, leading to the marriage supper of the Lamb to His bride...we, the body of the bridegroom, will escort them to the the marriage

Matthew practically opens with the announcement: "Repent, for the heavenly sovereignty is at hand" (Matt.3:2). To the Jew in that day they were pregnant [words]. The sovereignty that held sway over Israel at the time of John the Baptist's official proclamation was an earthly sovereignty, exercised by a Gentile empire, in marked contrast to the heavenly sovereignty which had ruled Israel before their national divorce, before their Sovereign, their Husband, ceased to hold tribunal between the cherubim in the Most Holy of the temple. John's message was given to encourage the Jewish people to repent, to turn away from trust in earthly power and turn to repose in that kingdom and dominion under the whole heaven which had been promised them as the "people of the saints of the Most High" (Dan.7:27).
The message which John had was exclusively for Jews. They were encouraged to confess the sins peculiar to their situation, the sins of national adultery and of failure to desire the approval of none but their Lord (Matt.3:6).


Repentance and baptism were the keys of the kingdom; and they were held for use by our Lord during His earthly ministry. But afterward He gave them to Peter, a Jew, and Peter exercised this power to open in Acts 2 toward Israel and in Acts 10 toward believing or proselyte Gentiles.

[DaughterofDavid]

Hi Jabcat,

What is your understanding of WHO Israel is...???

This to me is the crux of much misunderstanding within Christianity....just who is Israel.

In other words, from a historical perspective do you see Israel being that of only Jews?

I really liked what Cardinal wrote on page 2 of your thread...and also agree with both of you that the scriptures are a multi-faceted gem...in fact, the Hebrew has 4 layers to the interpretation of scripture...

The four levels of Biblical understanding are:

P [Pshat] - literal, simple - BREADTH
R [Remez] - parable, allegory - LENGTH
D [Derasha] - seek, search - DEPTH
S [Sod] - inner, mystical - HEIGHT

"What is Pardes? Pardes [H6508] is a Hebrew word used in the Bible that means a forest, orchard, or park, and is referred to as Paradise. It corresponds with the Greek word paradeisos [G3857], which also means a park, Eden, or Paradise.

In Hebrew, Pardes is spelled, PRDS which is also an acronym for the Hebrew words Pshat, Remez, Derasha, Sod. Each word represents a different level of understanding the scriptures......The journey into Pardes also represents our journey into deeper levels of intimacy with God our Father. It represents our journey into the relationship we once had in the Garden of Eden, hence the word Pardes ~ Paradise." ....

Blessings to you Jabcat,
DoD

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: DoD, we ARE on the same page......I posted about PRDS on another thread.  :girlheart: Blessings....

[claypot]

Hi Jabcat,

What is your understanding of WHO Israel is...???

This to me is the crux of much misunderstanding within Christianity....just who is Israel.

In other words, from a historical perspective do you see Israel being that of only Jews?

I really liked what Cardinal wrote on page 2 of your thread...and also agree with both of you that the scriptures are a multi-faceted gem...in fact, the Hebrew has 4 layers to the interpretation of scripture...

The four levels of Biblical understanding are:

P [Pshat] - literal, simple - BREADTH
R [Remez] - parable, allegory - LENGTH
D [Derasha] - seek, search - DEPTH
S [Sod] - inner, mystical - HEIGHT

"What is Pardes? Pardes [H6508] is a Hebrew word used in the Bible that means a forest, orchard, or park, and is referred to as Paradise. It corresponds with the Greek word paradeisos [G3857], which also means a park, Eden, or Paradise.

In Hebrew, Pardes is spelled, PRDS which is also an acronym for the Hebrew words Pshat, Remez, Derasha, Sod. Each word represents a different level of understanding the scriptures......The journey into Pardes also represents our journey into deeper levels of intimacy with God our Father. It represents our journey into the relationship we once had in the Garden of Eden, hence the word Pardes ~ Paradise." ....

Blessings to you Jabcat,
DoD

Hey dod, I just explained the height, depth and so on thing to some people at work. I explained it just as you put forth.

My question is this. What about people who are half Jewish and half Gentile?

cp

[DaughterofDavid]

:cloud9: DoD, we ARE on the same page......I posted about PRDS on another thread.  :girlheart: Blessings....

:thumbsup: :girlheart:.....I just love you sis....you are a blessing....same PAGE indeed!... :wink1:

DoD

[DaughterofDavid]

Hello Claypot,

You ask..."My question is this. What about people who are half Jewish and half Gentile?"

I am not sure what you mean by this question....can you help me out?

Thanks,
DoD

[chuckt]

Hi Jabcat,

What is your understanding of WHO Israel is...???

This to me is the crux of much misunderstanding within Christianity....just who is Israel.

In other words, from a historical perspective do you see Israel being that of only Jews?

I really liked what Cardinal wrote on page 2 of your thread...and also agree with both of you that the scriptures are a multi-faceted gem...in fact, the Hebrew has 4 layers to the interpretation of scripture...

The four levels of Biblical understanding are:

P [Pshat] - literal, simple - BREADTH
R [Remez] - parable, allegory - LENGTH
D [Derasha] - seek, search - DEPTH
S [Sod] - inner, mystical - HEIGHT

"What is Pardes? Pardes [H6508] is a Hebrew word used in the Bible that means a forest, orchard, or park, and is referred to as Paradise. It corresponds with the Greek word paradeisos [G3857], which also means a park, Eden, or Paradise.

In Hebrew, Pardes is spelled, PRDS which is also an acronym for the Hebrew words Pshat, Remez, Derasha, Sod. Each word represents a different level of understanding the scriptures......The journey into Pardes also represents our journey into deeper levels of intimacy with God our Father. It represents our journey into the relationship we once had in the Garden of Eden, hence the word Pardes ~ Paradise." ....

Blessings to you Jabcat,
DoD

were did you get this and can i use it?

thanks
chuckt

[DaughterofDavid]

Hi Jabcat,

What is your understanding of WHO Israel is...???

This to me is the crux of much misunderstanding within Christianity....just who is Israel.

In other words, from a historical perspective do you see Israel being that of only Jews?

I really liked what Cardinal wrote on page 2 of your thread...and also agree with both of you that the scriptures are a multi-faceted gem...in fact, the Hebrew has 4 layers to the interpretation of scripture...

The four levels of Biblical understanding are:

P [Pshat] - literal, simple - BREADTH
R [Remez] - parable, allegory - LENGTH
D [Derasha] - seek, search - DEPTH
S [Sod] - inner, mystical - HEIGHT

"What is Pardes? Pardes [H6508] is a Hebrew word used in the Bible that means a forest, orchard, or park, and is referred to as Paradise. It corresponds with the Greek word paradeisos [G3857], which also means a park, Eden, or Paradise.

In Hebrew, Pardes is spelled, PRDS which is also an acronym for the Hebrew words Pshat, Remez, Derasha, Sod. Each word represents a different level of understanding the scriptures......The journey into Pardes also represents our journey into deeper levels of intimacy with God our Father. It represents our journey into the relationship we once had in the Garden of Eden, hence the word Pardes ~ Paradise." ....

Blessings to you Jabcat,
DoD

were did you get this and can i use it?

thanks
chuckt

ABSOLUTELY...!

Here is the link...http://members.cox.net/8thday/4levels.html

Be blessed!
DoD

[chuckt]

awsome thanks for the link, i bet its heretical though   :laughing7:

God bless
chuckt

[DaughterofDavid]

awsome thanks for the link, i bet its heretical though   :laughing7:

God bless
chuckt

Yes, I am sure to some it would be called that.... :laughing7:

Be blessed chuckt...
DoD

[DaughterofDavid]

Also wanted to add Chuckt...

That just b/c I give a link to an article that I agree with..... doesn't mean that I agree with everything on that site....just wanted to say that in all seriousness.

DoD

[chuckt]

Also wanted to add Chuckt...

That just b/c I give a link to an article that I agree with..... doesn't mean that I agree with everything on that site....just wanted to say that in all seriousness.

DoD

DoD

  no clarification needed....as.....

that is a given with me  :Yesss: i am the same with links  i post.

and here is one i find alot of good info on:

http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_death_soul_hell_menu.htm

Be well
euty

[jabcat]

hello, DoD...

well, i'm not expert on it, but i believe there is the literal, natural israel, from the tribes, God's "chosen people"...the pure, absolute (whatever/whoever that is exactly, God knows, i don't) natural bloodline....and then there's perhaps a "spiritual israel", those given faith to believe in Jesus as Savior in this age of grace....i think some believe that group (we) have totally replaced israel in God's plan, but right now, i don't believe that's the case.

that may be part of the confusion as you say, but i also believe possibly an even bigger part of the confusion is as  discussed in this particular study, that we mix the evangels and don't even realize it...that's why the distinction between the body and the bride, Paul and Peter's ministries, etc....now, where it all exactly fits together, i'm not sure...i'm trying to learn more about it.

if one is able to totally get beyond all that and into a spiritual realm, great and maybe that's where God wants us to go with it...however, as we "reason" with each other in the body, i'm afraid part of our tug-o-wars are often over things we don't even truly properly divide (accurately cut) in the first place...my  :2c:.

God's blessing, James.

[CHB]

According to the author, Knoch(?), as I gather so far;

Hi jabcat,

Knoch didn't write this, it was written by "Fredrik Homer Robison".
His name is at the end in very tiny letters.

CHB

[jabcat]

got it, thanks

[reFORMer]

Hello Claypot,

You ask..."My question is this. What about people who are half Jewish and half Gentile?"

I am not sure what you mean by this question....can you help me out?

Thanks,
DoD

If you're 51% Jewish you won't disappear in the Rapture.  You'll be left behind!

(God was never racist!!!  There is no such thing as a Jewish race!!  Nobody is going to disappear!  The Rupture is hokem mixed with Bible verses, some of which have been altered.)

[jabcat]

The dogs under the table?

Excerpt;  "What would Jesus do? He had commanded the disciples not to go to the Gentiles and He Himself said He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. One would think by the next verse alone that Jesus paid no attention to her whatsoever:

(Matthew 15:23 KJV) But he answered her not a word. . . .

By not answering her, Jesus was showing the disciples that He was not there to minister to the Gentiles and remained consistent regarding His command to them. But, apparently, she was pretty persistent, and it began to irritate the disciples, who themselves started to pester Jesus to just heal her and get rid of her....

...She was saying, "I know you are not sent to the Gentile, but to your people, but I am as a dog under the table of your people and even a dog gets some crumbs from the table of those you came to serve. You are bread to me, and there is no other place to get it. All I want is a few crumbs. Even a dog has that right.

She knew her place in regards to Jesus' ministry to the Jews. But, in spite of this, she knew she had a place, and she wouldn't leave her place from "under the table." And now, finally, Jesus turned to her...

DO WE REALIZE WHAT JESUS HAS DONE FOR US GENTILES?

...after Pentecost, and God essentially told Peter that though the Gentiles were to be considered dogs by the Jews, that was no longer so:

(Acts 10:28 KJV) And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

We, as Gentiles, were once considered dogs. Even Jesus called the Gentile woman a "dog," and therefore all Gentiles, dogs. But, because Christ shed His blood and died for all men, God did away with calling the Gentiles dogs.

...but now as believers, we are considered differently...

(Ephesians 2:12 KJV) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world...""

But the problem is that we as [Gentile] believers must hold to our position in the "household of God" and not interfere with God's plan for Israel, but just preach the gospel. Scripture warns the Gentiles that they were made part of the olive tree and that we should not boast against Israel, yet the boasts continue through all kinds of "new" doctrines."

:dontknow:   :Chinscratch:
http://www.velocity.net/~edju/Dogs.htm

[DaughterofDavid]

Hi Jabcat,

Thanks for answering. I have not read any of Knoch that I know of....and so I don't know what his understanding of "Israel" is.

I would like to share with you what I have come to learn through the scriptures....that first and foremost *Israel* is the glorious representation of ALL 12 tribes (notice I say 12....for most think that Israel is made up of only the tribe of Judah ....which are commonly called the Jews....).

So THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL....consisted of all 12 tribes and....and these 12 tribes consisted of all different kinds of people....all ethnicitys....we see this in the exodus when " Moreover also, a mixed multitude, came up with them,—flocks also, and herds, exceeding much cattle, (ex. 12:38)....and let us also remember what Yahweh said about those who want to partake of the passover...

"And when there may sojourn with thee a sojourner who may wish to keep a passover to Yahweh, there must be circumcised to him every male and then, may he draw near to keep it, so shall he be as a native of the land,—but no uncircumcised male, shall eat thereof.
One law, shall there be for the native, and for the sojourner that sojourneth in your midst.
Thus did all the sons of Israel,—as Yahweh had commanded Moses and Aaron, so, did they.
And it came to pass, on this self-same day, that Yahweh brought forth the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt, by their hosts." (Ex. 12:48-51).

Now I write all of that to lay the foundation of who it was that consisted of *Israel*....so that one can see that it was not just the jews (judah) but all the tribes and all those that joined themselves to Israel though the partaking of passover.

Spiritually (which is REALITY) *Israel* represents all those that like Jacob have undergone a *name change* through character development that has been wrought by the cross of Christ within the life of a believer.

Now going on a little further...there was a time in history where there was a UNITED Kingdom known as *Israel* ....this took place during the reigns of Saul, David, and Solomon. Of all the twelve tribes 2 were given special mandates....one was a dominion mandate (this was given to Judah) and the other mandate was the birthright (this was given to Joseph). Scripture then tells us that this united Kingdom was Split after Solomon died...into 2 Kingdoms.....the Northern and Southern Kingdoms.

From that point on the Northern Kingdom was referred to as the House of Israel....also called the House of Joseph...and b/c Ephraim was Joseph's son and later on adopted by Jacob/Israel....it also was  known as the House of Ephraim (for Ephraim & Manasseh were the legal custodians of the birthright name) and all those that were united with them could call themselves *Israelites*.

The Southern Kingdom was referred to as the House of Judah (this consisted of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and some of Levi)...and these were the custodians of the Dominion mandate of which Yahshua came as the Lion of the tribe of Judah....Judah was not the tribe that had the right to use the name Israel, except by the consent of the birthright holders. So when one reads most of the writings of the prophets and they speak of Judah and Israel....hopefully this background that I have shared makes it easier to understand

Hope your still tracking with me :bigGrin:.....One house known as House of Israel/House of Joseph/House of Ephraim.....ALL the same....

The other is known as House of Judah....

Isaiah 5:7 says..."For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah His delightful plant..."

The Lord then gives the parable in Matt. 21:33-45 ...explaining the meaning of Isaiah's prophecy that I wrote above....The vineyard is the house of Israel (HOLISTICALLY all 12 tribes), the Kingdom of God. Judah, as one of the tribes, was a plant in the vineyard. But Judah was not the vineyard itself, but only a part of it.

The Lord has come as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah....we see this fullfilled in the Spring Feasts (Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost)...and this was the dominion mandate being fullfilled...as in adam all die so too in Christ shall all be made alive.
He soon will return to fullfill the Autumn Feasts just as literal as He did the Spring Feasts and this will accomplish the Birthright Mandate... for this is the MARRIAGE of the Bride and Groom and....and this marriage brings forth the PROMISED SEED, which is Christ manifesting within you and this then will be when for He will bring many *sons* to glory.

The prophecy that Ezekiel spoke of in Chpt. 37:16-22....is the 2 Houses becoming ONE...(prophetically speaking of christians and Jews...and all those that have joined themselves to the Lord....all foreigners....that have come under the Lordship of Yahshua)

For we see in Isaiah 56:6-8..."And, as for the sons of the foreigner—Who have joined themselves unto Yahweh To wait upon him, and To love the name of Yahweh, To become his for servants,—Every one who keepeth the sabbath, lest he profane it. And who, layeth firm hold on my covenant,
Surely I will bring them into my holy mountain And make them joyful in my house of prayer, Their ascending-offerings and their sacrifices, being accepted upon mine altar,—For, my house, a house of prayer, shall be called, for all the peoples! Declareth My Lord, Yahweh, Who is gathering the outcasts of Israel:—Yet others, will I gather unto him Besides his own gathered ones.

This is the glorious salvation of ALL MANKIND...thus *Israel* is a nation that is made up of all kinds of people from different races and nationalities that are the citizens of the Kingdom of God.

Thank you my brother for taking the time to read all of what I have written...it took a while for me to write it ....but it is a subject that I feel is so misunderstood and has been for so long....and one I believe that the Lord is now bringing forth the TRUTH for all that desire to know the truth...

Be blessed Jabcat!
DoD

[jabcat]

Thank you dear one, I'll study on it...

[jabcat]

Studying this topic some more...here's what A.E. Knoch (Concordant Literal Version) says regarding this topic...I want to read this more closely myself...I'm still seeking to more fully get a handle on this...

"CHRIST and His kingdom occupies the place of prominence in the Greek Scriptures.
They chronicle its refusal when proclaimed by the King Himself, its rejection when
heralded by His apostles after His resurrection, its present abeyance, its reaffirmation
and realization in the days to come.
Only a very small portion of the Hebrew Scriptures was written to or for the
nations, or gentiles. By far the greater part is concerning the nation of Israel. The same
is true of the Greek revelation. Excepting Paul's epistles, all is directly related to the
Circumcision. Christ confined His ministry to the people of the covenant. Where was
nothing but crumbs for aliens in the accounts of our Lord's life. The chief of the
twelve apostles could with difficulty be persuaded to preach even to such a proselyte
as Cornelius. From Hebrews to Jude all is limited to the twelve tribes. The Unveiling
gives Israel the sovereignty of the earth.
Only Paul's epistles, from Romans to Philemon, are written to, or intended for, the
Uncircumcision. While all blessing for the nations was planned to come through the
sons of Israel, this channel is choked when they reject the testimony of the apostles, as
recorded in the book of Acts.

All blessing for the present is based on their apostasy,
and comes to us, not through them, but through their defection, and is limited to the
period of their rejection. Furthermore, the destiny in Paul's epistles is different. The
Circumcision and their beneficiaries are blessed on earth. The Uncircumcision of this
economy are blessed among the celestials.
This book is not the "New Testament" or covenant. The new covenant which
Jehovah will make with His people Israel is to be formed in the so-called "Old
Testament" (Jer.31:31-34), and is repeated in the "New" (Heb.8:8-13). In both cases it
is confined to the physical seed of Jacob, the same people who received the old
covenant at Sinai, and its place is in the coming kingdom. The grand division in God's
purpose is not between these two covenants, but rather between covenanted and
uncovenanted blessings. The nations or gentiles will share some of Israel's good
things when they are in favor once again, and are under the new covenant.  But in the
great parenthetic period between their past apostasy and future fullness we have the
present grace. This is made known only in Paul's epistles and is entirely distinct from
the message of the scriptures to the Circumcision."

http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/ConcordantCommentary/CC00_B_GreekScriptures.htm (2 of 3) [03/

God's blessing, James.