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Context of Scripture

Started by jabcat, March 06, 2009, 01:47:29 AM

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Nathan

That's why we must live in "faith" and not in knowledge, works, or reasoning.  In faith, grace covers the things you don't understand until your maturity reaches each deeper level of understanding . . .you become "new every morning".  The confusion comes when our mind reaches the end of it's understanding and can't see any further . . . your mind doesn't live on faith . . . it lives on sight . .and when it can't see what's ahead . . . it manifests doubt.  None of these key words here are constructive.  Confusion, mind, no faith, doubt . . . the hardest thing for beleivers to do sometimes is to let go of what got them where they are . . . even though there is a river of death in front of you, the promise land is on the other side . .you are  a priest . . .Christ is on your shoulders . .step out in faith . . . even though your mind isn't seeing the fulness of undersanding . . .keep walking toward the "sound" of the voice . . .the sight will come when you reach the source of the sound.

Paul Hazelwood

hi brian,

No offense, but it is this danger and fear of "what if"  or  "better safe than sorry" that religion seems to inject into us as we hear all the various teachings about how you better get it right.

There are universalists that are legalists too,  that point the finger  saying everyone better straighten up or else.

If that mentality is so healthy,  why isn't it helping you?





WhiteWings

Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2009, 09:33:58 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 09, 2009, 08:25:11 PM
IMO the vagueness of the Bible for a large part come from:
- It's (almost) impossible to 100% corectly translate between languages.
- To fully understand the 'feeling' of a text you have to know the culture during the time it's written.
- Translators have given their of twist to the texts.
- etc etc

Why not all visions are the same:
- Many are just lies.
- Things get added. For example when the HS says "sinners get punished" it just means that. But people starts adding to that message and quickly it turns into "sinners get punished in an eternal fire"

The readers:
- Reading things in context is good. Until.... you start inventing your own context.
- Read with an open mind. That doesn't include force fitting what you read into the last sermon you heard.

But here's the thing; isn't the Holy Spirit supposed to cut through all that? I mean even with armchair Bible scholars, like a lot of us , with no agenda, who get mixed messages. It makes me worry about what I can rely on. Especially myself. What I think the HS is telling me, what I think the Bible is telling me...

I have zero HS experience so I have no idea how (forceful) that feels.
Not that it's of any help to you, or anyone else, but perhaps God wants things a bit vague and hidden.
I guess the HS can instantly pump your mind full with all the knowledge Jesus had/has.
Likely that's just not part of Gods plan?

Quotewhat I think the Bible is telling me
But are you listening? Is your Bible free of errors? (see my views on that in my earlier post)

QuoteWhat I think the HS is telling me
Again do you listen and accept like a little child?
Or do you verify against a Bible/teachings that possible has errors?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

reFORMer

#28
Well, I guess it's all in a stir!

Because I believe ALL of Scripture is relevant to ALL us, relevant to ALL of life ALL the time, I cut across what jabcat and Paul Hazelwood just said.

jabcat,
I really find racial dispensationalism to be one of the greatest robbers of the people who believe in Jesus.  Some things are to the racially gentile, the "goyim" church and others are to the racially jewish church, indeed?!!!  Where is there a promise of blessing a bloodline or a race of people apart from keeping God's word?  The closest to it I can find is the Levites who were set apart, but since others could marry into their tribe it is hardly racial.  That's gone now anyway.

Paul,
I'm not sure the extent of what you mean "legalists," if it's only "everybody better straighten up of else," or, "how you better get it right," as you have said.  I get accused of being a legalist because I still believe: "the wages of sin is death."  Scripture is a reliable witness to what sin and righteousness are.  According to Paul there are certain unjust natures that if we take them up we cannot enjoy the realm or reign of God (that also would put us at great risk.)  Yet he goes on to say "...some of you were these, but you are bathed off, but you are hallowed, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God." (1 Cor 6:11, CLV)

Life is God's gift.  Still, it can be cut short is you do certain things wrong.  Gravity is only described by "The Law of Gravity."  It doesn't work because somebody posted "The Law of Gravity" in newspapers and laundromats around the country.  The same with sin.

Mat 4:5-6 (CLV)...
5 Then the Adversary is taking Him along into the holy city, and stands Him on the wing of the sanctuary.
6 And he is saying to Him. "If you are God's Son, cast yourself down, for it is written that 'His messengers shall be directed concerning Thee' and 'On their hands shall they be lifting Thee, Lest at some time Thou shouldst be dashing Thy foot against a stone.'"
7 Jesus averred to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not be putting on trial the Lord your God.'"

Is it possible that if Jesus had in this case obeyed the Scripture he would've died?

Nathan,
This is where I could even disagree with you, because here we have someone "led of the spirit," with Scripture corroboration as well indicating he should jump.

Brian and everybody,
The best answer to this that I know at this time is God is greater than our knowledge and experience; but, it takes grace, which is His repeated dealings with us to mature us to where we know Him.  It does get sorted out after enough time in God's school.  We can grow to where we believe with Job, "Though He slay me, yet shall I praise Him."  Having been through repeated failures after repeated disobediences after repeated wrongs I found God present to love me.  I went through long periods when I had no conscious experience of Him; but, learned He never left me.  But, because of His discipline, and yes, His fear,I also learned to stop doing what "shaded" me from His light.  (That's the short version.)

1 Pet 5:10-11 (CLV)...
10 Now the God of all grace, Who calls you into His eonian glory in Christ, while briefly suffering, He will be adjusting, establishing, firming, founding you.
11 To Him be glory and might for the eons of the eons. Amen!

claypot

Quote from: reFORMer on March 09, 2009, 11:34:28 PM
Well, I guess it's all in a stir!

Because I believe ALL of Scripture is relevant to ALL us, relevant to ALL of life ALL the time, I

What does it do for you ref? How is it relevant to you? I ask with great curiosity and seriousness.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Paul Hazelwood

Quote from: reFORMer on March 09, 2009, 11:34:28 PM
I get accused of being a legalist because I still believe: "the wages of sin is death."  Scripture is a reliable witness to what sin and righteousness are.  According to Paul there are certain unjust natures that if we take them up we cannot enjoy the realm or reign of God (that also would put us at great risk.) 


Give an example of how you would address an individual and certain unjust natures in the light of spirituality.





jabcat

#31
Quote from: reFORMer on March 09, 2009, 11:34:28 PM
Well, I guess it's all in a stir!

Because I believe ALL of Scripture is relevant to ALL us, relevant to ALL of life ALL the time, I cut across what jabcat and Paul Hazelwood just said.

jabcat,
I really find racial dispensationalism to be one of the greatest robbers of the people who believe in Jesus.  Some things are to the racially gentile, the "goyim" church and others are to the racially jewish church, indeed?!!!  Where is there a promise of blessing a bloodline or a race of people apart from keeping God's word?  The closest to it I can find is the Levites who were set apart, but since others could marry into their tribe it is hardly racial.  That's gone now anyway.

11 To Him be glory and might for the eons of the eons. Amen!

I hope I'm teachable of the Master on this, Bro James...I CERTAINLY can't explain it all, and I don't want to indicate that ANY of scripture is not relevant.  God reminded me recently we live by EVERY Word that proceeds out of His mouth.    It's all for our growing, learning, edification.  But when speaking of context, let me give you what may seem a simple-minded example.  When Jesus told the 12 they would sit on thrones judging, I understand  that to be what He said...the 12...not that I can somehow make that mean me...there are other Words that do primarily address that topic (Apostle Paul?), but perhaps not those specific words to those specific 12 individuals.  That's what I'm trying to say.  It surely has relevance, worth, we need to pay attention to it...but IMO, Jesus was telling the 12 what He intended for them to know at that time.

Without a debate (and perhaps I can learn from your understanding), do you see what I'm trying to say, and what are your thoughts as related to that?

God's blessing, James.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

MacPherson

Quote from: jabcat on March 10, 2009, 12:20:23 AM
Quote from: reFORMer on March 09, 2009, 11:34:28 PM
Well, I guess it's all in a stir!

Because I believe ALL of Scripture is relevant to ALL us, relevant to ALL of life ALL the time, I cut across what jabcat and Paul Hazelwood just said.

jabcat,
I really find racial dispensationalism to be one of the greatest robbers of the people who believe in Jesus.  Some things are to the racially gentile, the "goyim" church and others are to the racially jewish church, indeed?!!!  Where is there a promise of blessing a bloodline or a race of people apart from keeping God's word?  The closest to it I can find is the Levites who were set apart, but since others could marry into their tribe it is hardly racial.  That's gone now anyway.

11 To Him be glory and might for the eons of the eons. Amen!

I hope I'm teachable of the Master on this, Bro James...I CERTAINLY can't explain it all, and I don't want to indicate that ANY of scripture is not relevant.  God reminded me recently we live by EVERY Word that proceeds out of His mouth.    It's all for our growing, learning, edification.  But when speaking of context, let me give you what may seem a simple-minded example.  When Jesus told the 12 they would sit on thrones judging, I understand  that to be what He said...the 12...not that I can somehow make that mean me...there are other Words that do primarily address that topic (Apostle Paul?), but perhaps not those specific words to those specific 12 individuals.  That's what I'm trying to say.  It surely has relevance, worth, we need to pay attention to it...but IMO, Jesus was telling the 12 what He intended for them to know at that time.

Without a debate (and perhaps I can learn from your understanding), do you see what I'm trying to say, and what are your thoughts as related to that?

God's blessing, James.


I have a full understanding on all of this down cold. Just send me $39.99 for a series of CD's you won't be able to understand. Make checks payable to CASH.

jabcat

 :LH:.  Hey man, I got an idea...let's start a denomination...you be the preacher and i'll lead the singin'...oh never mind, all the best names are already taken :eyebrow:
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Cardinal

 :cloud9: Both of you are a late nite riot..... :laughing7:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

jabcat

Well, you fit in just fine yourself, thanks.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

jabcat

I was just thinking earlier tonight about something Groucho Marx said..."I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member".
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

reFORMer

Dr.Theophilos' Traveling Salvation Band and Gospel Light Extravaganza

That name has not been taken.  We'll need a tent and a truck and light show paraphenalia.  Surely we already have some tamborines!  You can figure out the rest.

(If it wasn't so late for me I'd write more stuff...please forgive me.  I'm trying to defeat insomnia.)

Cardinal

 :cloud9: Now you're talkin'.......I have a tambourine  :winkgrin:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Taffy

well Chuckt plays drums and percussion , Willie H, guitar and sings some too, Byron has a recording outlet  ,WW could do a Fine Job on advertising and promotion , ill just  tag along be a Roadie.. :thumbsup:


(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/musique/musiciens/music027.gif)


:icon_flower:



chuckt

Quote from: Taffy on March 10, 2009, 02:59:18 PM
well Chuckt plays drums and percussion , Willie H, guitar and sings some too, Byron has a recording outlet  ,WW could do a Fine Job on advertising and promotion , ill just  tag along be a Roadie.. :thumbsup:


(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/musique/musiciens/music027.gif)


:icon_flower:





jammin for Jesus  :Egyptdance2: :egyptdance:

WhiteWings

Quote from: Taffy on March 10, 2009, 02:59:18 PM
well Chuckt plays drums and percussion , Willie H, guitar and sings some too, Byron has a recording outlet  ,WW could do a Fine Job on advertising and promotion , ill just  tag along be a Roadie.. :thumbsup:

I think you will take those words back when you see the album/track names of the CDs in my cupboard... :rocker
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Molly


what is that handsign you are making, ww? :mshock:

WhiteWings

I'm fan of the Dallas Longhorns like Bush  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

jabcat

#44
Studying this myself guys, so if you have big problems here, don't kill the messenger  :icon_jokercolor:.  I thought this was relevant information to consider...I personally struggle with different "gospels", thinking about it, will try to see what the author really means by that...

--------------------------
Grace Evangel Fellowship   "Recognizing Christ as the Ultimate Saviour of All!"

http://prairiekari.com/GraceEvangel/zz%20Files03d%20-%20Newsletters/Evangel%20-%20The%20Gospel%20(10-28-05).pdf

A huge error within modern Christianity is the teaching that the Bible speaks only of one Gospel. This
teaching alleges that wherever the word "Gospel" is found in Scripture it refers to the same identical
message concerning salvation.

Paul wrote to Timothy in 2 Timothy 1:13
Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love
which are in Christ Jesus.   As we study God's Word, and as we share our understandings of God's Word with others, it is crucial that we express exactly and precisely what God has said ... that we use sound words. If we vary from what God has said, we are in danger of teaching false things about God.

INCONSISTENT TRANSLATIONS
The problem is that our modern English translations are grossly inconsistent, and incorporate Bible
interpretation into the translation. They are really not translations of God's Word at all, but
interpretations based on the theological understandings of those creating the translations.

So not only do we have great inconsistency in translating the word "evangel" ... but the translators have
determined for us exactly what the "Gospel" with a capital "G" is.
But were the translators correct?

DIFFERENT GOSPELS
Before we move forward, let us consider a few observations concerning the various "gospels" found in
Scripture:
• The various gospels are not always brought by the same person
• The various gospels are not always directed to the same person or persons
• The various gospels do not always contain the same message, or good news
• The various gospels are not always concerning salvation

THE GOSPEL (#1) TO ABRAHAM
THE GOSPEL (#2) TO ZECHARIAH
THE GOSPEL (#3) TO THE SHEPHERDS
THE GOSPEL (#4) THAT TIMOTHY BROUGHT TO PAUL

As we can see from these passages, "gospel" is simply good news. The good news is not always the same
... and it does not always have anything to do with our salvation. The word "gospel" always requires
definition from its context, for us to know what the "gospel" in each instance refers to.

THE GOSPEL (#5) OF THE CIRCUMCISION

Consider the question posed to Jesus just before his ascension into heaven (Acts 1:6)
Those, indeed, then who are coming together, asked Him, saying, "Lord, art Thou
at this time restoring the kingdom to Israel?" Yet He said to them, "Not yours is
it to know times or eras which the Father placed in His own jurisdiction."
Christ could not reveal when the kingdom would be restored to Israel.

Jesus and His disciples proclaimed the same message concerning the kingdom as did the Old
Testament prophets
• Even after the crucifixion and resurrection, the Twelve continued to go only to the sheep of Israel
• Peter's proclamation continued to call for repentance and awaited the restoration of the kingdom
Those, indeed, then who are coming together, asked Him, saying, "Lord, art Thou
at this time restoring the kingdom to Israel?" Yet He said to them, "Not yours is
it to know times or eras which the Father placed in His own jurisdiction."

Jesus and His disciples proclaimed the same message concerning the kingdom as did the Old
Testament prophets
• Even after the crucifixion and resurrection, the Twelve continued to go only to the sheep of Israel
• Peter's proclamation continued to call for repentance and awaited the restoration of the kingdom

Even "the church" ("ecclesia" in the Greek ... literally "called-out-ones") in the early part of Acts was
entirely a Jewish body. The many references to the gospel going only to the sheep of Israel throughout the
book of Acts are often overlooked by Bible students, but clearly the gospel during that time was directed
exclusively to the Jews, and "the church" at that time was exclusively Jewish. Pentecost (in Acts 2),
thought by most to be the birth of our Church, was a gathering of Israelites only. Peter and the Twelve
clearly went only to the sheep of Israel.

Nowhere in the "gospel of the Circumcision" proclaimed by Peter do we see the equality of Gentiles with
the sons of Israel. Nowhere do we see a promise of "heaven" ... but only a restoration of the kingdom
upon this earth.

THE GOSPEL (#6) OF THE UNCIRCUMCISION

Turning again to Galatians 2:7, Paul writes:

I have been entrusted with the evangel of the Uncircumcision, according
as Peter of the Circumcision...

We recall Paul's conversion and his commission from the Lord in Acts 9:15
He is a choice instrument of Mine, to bear My name before both the nations
and kings, besides the sons of Israel.

None of the Twelve were chosen or commissioned to go to the other nations, but only to the sons of
Israel. Paul is commissioned to do both. The book of Acts records that everywhere Paul went, he would
first go to the synagogues and proclaim Christ to the Jews. We remember that a part of his commission
was to go to the "sons of Israel."
But when he was rejected by the sons of Israel, he would go to the Gentiles. Peter and the Twelve did not
do so. And finally, in Acts 28 when Paul calls together the "foremost of the Jews" (v 17) he seeks to
"persuade them concerning Jesus" (v 23). When many are not persuaded, Paul announces:
Let it be known to you, then, that to the nations was dispatched this salvation
of God, and they will hear. (v 28)

But is the gospel to the nations the same as the gospel to Israel?
How could the nations await the restoration of the kingdom, since it was not their kingdom to begin with?
How could the nations suddenly inherit all of the same promises made to Israel? Consider what Paul says
in Romans 11:25
Callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations
may be entering. And thus all Israel shall be saved...

If God had cast off Israel and given her promises to the Gentiles, how could Israel one day be saved? We
read in Romans 11 that Israel had not been calloused permanently ... but only UNTIL the complement of
the nations may be entering.

Consider Galatians 1:11
For I am making known to you, brethren, as to the evangel which is being brought
by me, that it is not in accord with man. For neither did I accept it from a man, nor
was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

If Paul's gospel was the same as Peter's, why did Paul not simply receive this gospel from Peter and the
others who had walked with Jesus during his earthly ministry? Paul is very clear that this was not the
case.
And why does Paul refer to his message as "MY gospel?" (Romans 2:16; 16:25; 2 Timothy 2:8). If there
is only one Gospel, why does Paul use the terminology "MY gospel?"
And if Paul's gospel was the same as Peter's, why was there so much controversy surrounding his
proclamation?

Even late in his ministry when he went to Jerusalem, we read in Acts 21:20
... how many tens of thousands there are among the Jews who have believed, and
all are inherently zealous for the law...
Those that opposed Paul were not unbelieving Jews ... but all are inherently zealous for the law...
Those that opposed Paul were not unbelieving Jews ... but "Jews who believed." If Paul's gospel was the
same as Peter's, why would this opposition occur?
And consider some of the differences between what Paul proclaimed and what Peter and the others
proclaimed.

Peter                                                             Paul
Bride of Christ                                                 Body of Christ
Priestly nation                                                 No barrier between Jew or Greek
Born again                                                      New creation
Pardon (found guilty but sentence suspended)     Justification (found not guilty) God not reckoning offenses to man
Repent..so that restoration can come and           Awaiting Christ to return to snatch us away
reign in kingdom on earth                                  into the heavens



PROCLAIMING THE CORRECT GOSPEL
We read in 2 Corinthians 5:20
For Christ, then, are we ambassadors, as of God entreating through us. We
are beseeching for Christ's sake, "Be conciliated to God!"

If we are to be Christ's ambassadors, we must be sure that the gospel we proclaim is the correct gospel. If
this is not the case, how can God be entreating through us.

By failing to recognize that the Bible speaks of many different "gospels" ... and specifically by failing to
distinguish between the "gospel of the Circumcision" and the "gospel of the Uncircumcision" ... we cause
confusion and we proclaim things that are not true.
• Israel awaited her King to return, restoring the kingdom unto Israel
• We await Christ to come and snatch us away into the heavens
• The gospel of the Circumcision pertained to the nation of Israel
• The gospel of the Uncircumcision pertains to those of all nations, without distinction
We cannot mix the two gospels without confusing the message God wants us to proclaim in this present
age!
If we fail to distinguish those things in God's Word that are different, and if we mix together the various
gospels we find throughout Scripture (some of which are not spoken to us or intended for us), we are
actually creating a "different gospel" ... a gospel of our own creation ... thereby distorting the real gospel
God has entrusted to His Church.
Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly
cutting the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)
--------------------

There is a related, but somewhat varying POV here:  http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/understandingbible.php

I encourage us each to pray for God's understanding to us, that the spiritual truths of His Word will be revealed...

God's blessing, James.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Cardinal

#45
Quote from: jabcat on March 12, 2009, 01:42:34 AM
Peter                                                             Paul
Bride of Christ                                                 Body of Christ
Priestly nation                                                 No barrier between Jew or Greek
Born again                                                      New creation
Pardon (found guilty but sentence suspended)     Justification (found not guilty) God not reckoning offenses to man
Repent..so that restoration can come and           Awaiting Christ to return to snatch us away
reign in kingdom on earth                                  into the heavens

:cloud9: Jabcat, I think what's missing here is a spiritual understanding of what the writer is pointing out as contradictions. Numbering them 1 thru 5......

1) The body is the Spirit of Christ in each one that makes up the whole of Christ. The bride that He is "returning" for (and returns and returns and returns) is the soul of man. This is why there are males after the flesh that are still part of the "bride" He's returning for.

2) The priestly nation is in the SPIRIT, so the second column only reinforces that, so that ALL now can enter in to being a priest of God.

3) It should read born from above, and again the second column entry only reinforces that, because the first creature was from the earth, earthy, the second is the Lord from heaven whose likeness we do and will continue to take on.

4) Pardon; this is a work of the outer court realm, which the law/letter is in and we come to the knowledge of our offenses here when we receive Jesus in this realm.

Justification is a work of the inner court realm, as this is the realm of receiving the HG, which at it's essence means the "sacrifice" was accepted as fire came down from heaven to consume the offering.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called (outer court): and whom he called, them he also justified (inner court): and whom he justified, them he also glorified (Holy of Holies).

The Lord gave me something on how that operates in the kingdom. When the ram was sacrificed on the day of atonement, God told the priests to separate the HEAD from the animal first (He was separated from His body first). They were to cut the animal in it's joints, making sure to not break a bone (not a bone of His was broken).

Then they were to take the skin off the animal and put the HEAD of the animal on the fire first, and then they were to place the pieces on the grate next, making sure to leave gaps so that none of the pieces were touching, so that the fire could come up between the pieces of the body.

The baptism of the HG IS that fire that comes between the pieces of the body of Adam, ie. that which every joint supplieth has been met. So every time someone is born from above and baptized in the HG, another piece of "Adam" (who is also a many membered body) just got placed on the altar. God tends to "overlap" some of His works, as some begin but are not yet finished in the individual, as this was a picture of Pentecost but also of the day of atonement.

5) He does catch us up into the heavenly realm, but it's not our body that gets caught up, but our fully redeemed souls. The kingdom is restored IN MAN, which is where it was lost from in the first place. Adam was given to rule and have dominion and when he gave up that dominion within, it manifested without. We don't rule on earth first, we rule IN OUR EARTH first. The Lord's prayer says, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, IN EARTH, as it is in heaven." 

As for the gospel, the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Without that, there is no other gospel, there is no propitiation for sins. Blessings....

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

jabcat

#46
Very good stuff, Card. Excellent!

  Do you think it's possible that the writer's points (many of them, at least) have validity, but that there are then other, deeper layers, which you're pointing out?  Further, that often times we do get caught up in the "letter", the "surface doctrines", actually mixing the evangels on a "primary" level, and pretty much get stuck on arguing at that level...thus the divisions, denominations, even the opposing POV's on TM (grace, works, Law  :swordfight:)  ...but that there are many spiritual truths that lie deeper within, underneath the surface where we often dwell?   

What do you (or anyone) think about some of those possibilites?  I think it could be at least partly so...
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Cardinal

 :cloud9: Yes I do..... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

jabcat

#48
Excellent, I feel some peace about that...I see that's really where your post went...not contradicting the author's presentation of his view of the "facts", but moving into another realm of it...I personally do get stuck at the surface level most of the time...I'll watch and see what some others get out of this...God's blessing, James.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

reFORMer

#49
Galatians 1:6-12 (CLV) . . .
6 I am marveling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred from that which calls you in the grace of Christ, to a different evangel,
7 which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you want also to distort the evangel of Christ.
8 But if ever we also, or a messenger out of heaven, should be bringing an evangel to you beside that which we bring to you, let him be anathema!
9 As we have declared before and at present I am saying again, if anyone is bringing you an evangel beside that which you accepted, let him be anathema!
10 For, at present, am I persuading men or God? Or am I seeking to please men? If I still pleased men, I were not a slave of Christ.
11 For I am making known to you, brethren, as to the evangel which is being brought by me, that it is not in accord with man.
12 For neither did I accept it from a man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

But I should believe there are many gospels, or evangels?

1 Corinthians 15:1-5 (CLV) . . .
1 Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which I bring to you, which also you accepted, in which also you stand,
2 through which also you are saved, if you are retaining what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly.
3 For I give over to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
4 and that He was entombed, and that He has been roused the third day according to the scriptures,
5 and that He was seen . . .

This would've been preached by Christ while He was dead to those who were dead. 
Also, Scripture, "...brings before an evangel to Abraham" (CLV), also translated as, "...preached before the gospel unto Abraham" (AV), is explained in context where that phrase appears in Galatians 3:8:

Galatians 3:8 (AV) . . .
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Galatians 3:2-14 (CLV) . . .
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you get the spirit by works of law or by hearing of faith?
3 So foolish are you? Undertaking in spirit, are you now being completed in flesh?
4 So much did you suffer feignedly? Since, surely, it also is feignedly!
5 He, then, who is supplying you with the spirit, and operating works of power among you-did you get the spirit by works of law or by the hearing of faith,
6 according as Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness?
7 Know, consequently, that those of faith, these are sons of Abraham.
8 Now the scripture, perceiving before that God is justifying the nations by faith, brings before an evangel to Abraham, that In you shall all the nations be blessed.
9 So that those of faith are being blessed together with believing Abraham.
10 For whoever are of works of law are under a curse, for it is written that, Accursed is everyone who is not remaining in all things written in the scroll of the law to do them.
11 Now that in law no one is being justified with God is evident, for the just one by faith shall be living.
12 Now the law is not of faith, but who does them "shall be living in them."
13 Christ reclaims us from the curse of the law, becoming a curse for our sakes, for it is written, Accursed is everyone hanging on a pole,
14 that the blessing of Abraham may be coming to the nations in Christ Jesus, that we may be obtaining the promise of the spirit through faith.

"The gospel of Christ" and "the gospel of God" are not different gospels.  There's no reason to believe the "gospel to the circumcision" is a different gospel than what is to be preached as "gospel to the uncircumcision," or, nations.