Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused

[Molly]

Taffy is back to claim his flowers!

:bgdance:

[Taffy]

Taffy is back to claim his flowers!

:bgdance:

Hi Molly :icon_flower:

You said it Girl...Scott was just trying to draw me out some... :happygrin: :grin: :laughing7: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

I'll let Jesus have the last word with you, Nathan:

Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself.
Handle Me and perceive,
for a spirit has not flesh and bones
according as you behold Me having. (Luke 24:39)

And then He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

cp

The Bible does not say He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

Don't you read your bible?

[claypot]

I'll let Jesus have the last word with you, Nathan:

Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself.
Handle Me and perceive,
for a spirit has not flesh and bones
according as you behold Me having. (Luke 24:39)

And then He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

cp

The Bible does not say He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

Don't you read your bible?

Not the same one you do my friend.

cp

[claypot]

Not even close.

cp

[Molly]

Taffy is back to claim his flowers!

:bgdance:

Hi Molly :icon_flower:

You said it Girl...Scott was just trying to draw me out some... :happygrin: :grin: :laughing7: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

And, in the nick of time, too.

We were just about to make a calf out of the flowers and dance around it.

:mrflo:

[Tony N]

I'll let Jesus have the last word with you, Nathan:

Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself.
Handle Me and perceive,
for a spirit has not flesh and bones
according as you behold Me having. (Luke 24:39)

And then He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

cp

The Bible does not say He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

Don't you read your bible?

Not the same one you do my friend.

cp

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

[claypot]

I'll let Jesus have the last word with you, Nathan:

Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself.
Handle Me and perceive,
for a spirit has not flesh and bones
according as you behold Me having. (Luke 24:39)

And then He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

cp

The Bible does not say He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

Don't you read your bible?

Tony, I believe a lot of things that are not written in the Bible. Do you?

cp

[Molly]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.



John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

[claypot]

I'll let Jesus have the last word with you, Nathan:

Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself.
Handle Me and perceive,
for a spirit has not flesh and bones
according as you behold Me having. (Luke 24:39)

And then He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

cp

The Bible does not say He walked through a physical literal solid wall.

Don't you read your bible?

Not the same one you do my friend.

cp

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

Tony, you are making assumptions again. Be very cardful. Did I say there was a Bible that said He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

cp

[Tony N]

Nathan, and pneuma, you sure go to great lengths to make the word of God of none effect.

Tony that only go's to show that you did NOT understand my post for if you did then you would have understood that I beleive Jesus does have flesh and blood/bone. So tell me how this make the word of God of none effect?

On this point I was actually agreeing with you brother; although I still don't think you understand why as you are just way to literal

read my last reply to Nathan, maybe it will help, maybe not, tis in Gods hands.

Hi pneuma, I think this is what I was replying about which you wrote earlier:

And if you say of the SPIRIT which I believe you must then you can understand that His FLESH was/is NOT the same as ours is right now.

How is His flesh different than ours?

Of course I don't believe He had death operating in His flesh like we do. If His flesh is different are His bones different too?

[Tony N]

Tony:
What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

cp:
Tony, you are making assumptions again. Be very cardful. Did I say there was a Bible that said He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

Tony:
Oh! O.K. so you just made it up. Now I know.

[claypot]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.

Molly, of course you are correct but Tony is playing his very effective game again. If cornered He turns to a rendering of the Scriptures that will use words or phrases that will say what he needs it to say and then say, 'It is what it is.'

I must say though that Tonys style is extremely effective. He has hooked me even now and I see he is in control of many of the threads here at Tentmaker in the sense he has hooked a number of people. If I were of a more suspicious nature I would wonder what Tonys real agenda is. Now I am sounding like the accuser ain't I? Just want to be truthful here.

Tony, I don't want to make this about you but you have a way about you that concerns me and I know concerns others too. You have a way of giving in just in time to keep others going with you and then you seem to have a way to annoy the heck out of a lot well meaning people. You have mastered the balance of just enough humility with a good dose of arrogance to keep people discussing things with you.

My huge concern is that I wonder if the aggravation and frustration I see you causing is outweighed by the good I see.

Just my outspoken opinions. I have been in your shoes. I like it here at TM but for some reason you kind of tick me off. Why? Its probably not you but it is my bad but there it is.

You and I are reading a very different Bible, Tony and I don't say this just because of some word differences or differences in intepretation. There is something adversarial in all of us but I am concerned about your adversarial nature. I am one nasty individual so I am not one to talk so take my comments for what they are worth to you.

cp

[Taffy]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.



John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

Just maybe HE had a KEY and unlocked the the Gates of Hades :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.



John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

Dear Molly, if the Bible does not say Jesus walked through a wall then I am not beholden to believe He did.

He may be operating on a completely different time/space continuum than we. He may have just willed to be in the room and was then willed to not be in the room and was gone. But it clearly does not say "Jesus walked through a solid wall."
Tony

[Taffy]

Taffy is back to claim his flowers!

:bgdance:

Hi Molly :icon_flower:

You said it Girl...Scott was just trying to draw me out some... :happygrin: :grin: :laughing7: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

And, in the nick of time, too.

We were just about to make a calf out of the flowers and dance around it.

:mrflo:

Did Moses hear ya say that...You need a Beating with a ROD girl, and beat that DEATH out ya!

[claypot]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.



John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

Dear Molly, if the Bible does not say Jesus walked through a wall then I am not beholden to believe He did.

He may be operating on a completely different time/space continuum than we. He may have just willed to be in the room and was then willed to not be in the room and was gone. But it clearly does not say "Jesus walked through a solid wall."
Tony

BINGO! Classic Tony. Me thinks we are being played here.

cp

[Taffy]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.



John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

Dear Molly, if the Bible does not say Jesus walked through a wall then I am not beholden to believe He did.

He may be operating on a completely different time/space continuum than we. He may have just willed to be in the room and was then willed to not be in the room and was gone. But it clearly does not say "Jesus walked through a solid wall."
Tony

MAYBE, MAYBE AND mAYBE....OR maybe HE walked through the WALL...or HE was JUST the KEY to the DOOR.... :icon_flower:

[Molly]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.



John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

Dear Molly, if the Bible does not say Jesus walked through a wall then I am not beholden to believe He did.

He may be operating on a completely different time/space continuum than we. He may have just willed to be in the room and was then willed to not be in the room and was gone. But it clearly does not say "Jesus walked through a solid wall."
Tony

Yes, that's true.  But something happened that is not normal.  lol

[Tony N]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.



John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

Dear Molly, if the Bible does not say Jesus walked through a wall then I am not beholden to believe He did.

He may be operating on a completely different time/space continuum than we. He may have just willed to be in the room and was then willed to not be in the room and was gone. But it clearly does not say "Jesus walked through a solid wall."
Tony

BINGO! Classic Tony. Me thinks we are being played here.

cp

Nope, wrong again. I don't play games, cp. Serious. I don't.

Remember Philip who was baptizing the eunuch in Acts? The eunuch went down under the water and Philip vanished. He was then seen in another city. Did Philip have special flesh we don't have? No. It was all done by the holy spirit.

If Philip can just vanish and appear out of nowhere in another city why in blue blazins can't Jesus be in some city and just all of a sudden appear in a room that is locked then vanish like Philip did?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, cp.

[Tony N]

What Bible says He walked through a physical literal solid wall?

I thought the Bible implied it since it goes to the trouble of telling us they are together inside a room with a locked door and Jesus appears to them--is suddenly there.



John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

Dear Molly, if the Bible does not say Jesus walked through a wall then I am not beholden to believe He did.

He may be operating on a completely different time/space continuum than we. He may have just willed to be in the room and was then willed to not be in the room and was gone. But it clearly does not say "Jesus walked through a solid wall."
Tony

MAYBE, MAYBE AND mAYBE....OR maybe HE walked through the WALL...or HE was JUST the KEY to the DOOR.... :icon_flower:

Maybe He didn't need a key. Maybe He just willed the door to unlock itself and it did.

[claypot]

I see so much of this talk as taking us away from Jesus. I see it as taking us into an arena with Tony. I want to draw closer to Jesus via this forum, not debate endlessly and may I say, meaninglessly, with Tony but wherever I look, there he is and I don't mean Jesus.

I have found good via Tony's discussions but when you really look at all the arguing here and the flippant way Tony expertly keeps the frustration going, again, I got to wonder what's really up here.

I have said much that can be used to condemn me here so I will stop and see which way the wind blows.

God Bless you all and that includes you too Tony.

cp

[Tony N]

I see so much of this talk as taking us away from Jesus. I see it as taking us into an arena with Tony. I want to draw closer to Jesus via this forum, not debate endlessly and may I say, meaninglessly, with Tony but wherever I look, there he is and I don't mean Jesus.

I have found good via Tony's discussions but when you really look at all the arguing here and the flippant way Tony expertly keeps the frustration going, again, I got to wonder what's really up here.

I have said much that can be used to condemn me here so I will stop and see which way the wind blows.

God Bless you all and that includes you too Tony.

cp

Yea, they said the same about Jesus. They would tell Him He is good but .... well, Jesus we think you have a demon.
So with one hand they pat His back and with the other they slap Him in the face.

cp, the real problem that makes you mad is your philosophies are found to not really match up with the Scriptures. So you get mad at me. If you wish to remedy the situation try reading a good translation, and start believing God concerning it.

Also, I don't just flippantly answer people as you accuse me of. I really think about what people say and try to be helpful.

In fact, this whole conversation is leading toward Jesus. To state philosophical ideas that Jesus is not flesh and bones, that He is spirit, that He has a different flesh etc. etc. etc. is leading away from the Scriptures and hence away from Jesus.

[claypot]

Tony, I still am curious about a question you avoided.

Tony, I believe a lot of things that are not written in the Bible. Do you?

cp

[Tony N]

Tony, I still am curious about a question you avoided.

Tony, I believe a lot of things that are not written in the Bible. Do you?

cp

No, actually, I don't. If it pertains to the Bible, no.