The Vatican claims Darwin's theory of evolution is compatible with Christianity

[sparrow]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, said while the Church had been hostile to Darwin's theory in the past, the idea of evolution could be traced to St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas.

Father Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, Professor of Theology at the Pontifical Santa Croce University in Rome, added that 4th century theologian St Augustine had "never heard the term evolution, but knew that big fish eat smaller fish" and forms of life had been transformed "slowly over time". Aquinas made similar observations in the Middle Ages.

Ahead of a papal-backed conference next month marking the 150th anniversary of Darwin's On the Origin of Species, the Vatican is also set to play down the idea of Intelligent Design, which argues a "higher power" must be responsible for the complexities of life.

The conference at the Pontifical Gregorian University will discuss Intelligent Design to an extent, but only as a "cultural phenomenon" rather than a scientific or theological issue...

 

Anyone care to discuss?
Just thought this was interesting.
They're going to "play down the idea of intelligent design..."

[Doc]

There are a number of official church organizations that have adopted some form of "Theistic Evolution" as their official position.

I've met a number of conservative Christians who hold the Theistic Evolution position as well. The real question I guess is whether Darwinism itself is good science or not.

My humble opinion is that good science and good theology should line up with each other.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Evolution does not threaten spirituality.

[WhiteWings]

There are a number of official church organizations that have adopted some form of "Theistic Evolution" as their official position.

Mmmm, I think that includes me.

The real question I guess is whether Darwinism itself is good science or not.

That's no question for me. Darwinism was based on very little proof and much assumptions. To many to call it science IMO. But that's personal. In defense of Darwin he saw weak spots in his theory. Others after him pushed the theory more than Darwin himself. Now, many years after Darwin, and many many hours spend on archeology, what have 'we' found to support Darwin. Nothing
On the contrary, archelogical finds disprove Darwin. More recent science like micro biology and deeper understanding of gen-tech disproves Darwin even more. Just Google a bit for "Cambrian explosion"
Evolution wasn't a gradual proces like Darwinsm claims. No it made huge jumps.
Not "and then it evolved into"
But "and suddenly"
Much more the "God said let there be..." type of evolution.

My humble opinion is that good science and good theology should line up with each other.

But if they don't... which one is wrong....?   :thinking:

IMO the curch is again betting on the wrong horse.
Finally they embrace science and they pick an outdated theory  :pointlaugh:
Actually the above kind of stuff (amongst other science stuff) is what gently pushed me toward religion :reachout:

[Molly]

Evolution is junk science.  

[WhiteWings]

Evolution does not threaten spirituality.

Not for you. Not for me.
But it does for all YECs.
Does this also mean Vatican is no longer YEC?
Unless ofcourse the pope thinks Darwinian evolution took place in 168 hours.....

[Doc]

Evolution is junk science.  

There are scientists who are Christians who would disagree with you.

[Molly]

Here's an interesting thought, though--that man in his own lifetime goes through an evolution of sorts.

Every other animal is good to go within a few minutes after birth.   Within the first year of life, they are on their own, having left the nest, family, mother.   Or, if they stay in the pack, they are running with the adults, hunting with them within the year.  

But, look at man--prolonged babyhood--he comes out of the womb incomplete, in fact, his brain will keep growing and developing well into his twenties (one reason why drugs are so dangerous for teenagers).  

And, spiritually, also, he will keep growing, if he keeps pursuing it--there is no end.



THERE ARE TWO LINES ALONG WHICH MAN'S DEVELOPMENT PROCEEDS, the line of knowledge and the line of being. In right evolution the line of knowledge and the line of being develop simultaneously, parallel to, and helping one another. But if the line of knowledge gets too far ahead of the line of being, or if the line of being gets ahead of the line of knowledge, man's development goes wrong, and sooner or later it must come to a standstill.

--In Search of the Miraculous

[Molly]

Evolution is junk science.  

There are scientists who are Christians who would disagree with you.

And there are scientists who are not Christians who would agree with me.  So what? lol

But, basically, any scientist who agrees with me is out of a job.  That's more important.

[WhiteWings]

But, basically, any scientist who agrees with me is out of a job.  That's more important.

False assumption Molly.
They just get transfered to the Vatican science department  :tease: :banana:

[Molly]

But, basically, any scientist who agrees with me is out of a job.  That's more important.

False assumption Molly.
They just get transfered to the Vatican science department  :tease: :banana:

Is that Hell or purgatory?  :mshock:

[WhiteWings]

Purgatory. Because when you grow older the pope looses interest.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Some peoples faith has no bearing on science or fear of evolution being the correct theory, wonder why that is?

It does not contradict what the bible can say, it contradicts a proposed intepretation that is asserted as truth.  Big difference.


Evolution does not threaten faith or spirituality in any way.

[sparrow]

Evolution is fact. Things evolve, nature evolves...this has been proven.

The THEORY of evolution is NOT fact. It's theory.

If it were proved to be fact, then, that would of course, not threaten my spirituality at all.
I have an open mind.
If that's how God brought it about, if that's the method he used for Creation... :dontknow: that's fine by me.

But how can the vatican "downplay intelligent design"... downplay a "Creator". That's the part I don't get.

People are always saying the theory of evolution is a fact, there is no God..
and I'm just sitting there thinking..  :dontknow: huh? 
Even IF the THEORY of evolution were to become a FACT, how does that mean there is no God?
I never understood that.

But then again, to be honest, if someone discovered the bible was a total fake, that wouldn't phase me too much, either. My belief in God is powerful and it transcends bibles and anything else in this world.

just my  :2c:

[martincisneros]

http://www.reasons.org  Ignore their "statement of faith."  They're great scientists though they're still trapped by the ET myth of separation.

[martincisneros]

I'm no fan of Charisma magazine, but here's a good article:-)

http://charismamag.com/articles/index.php/18473

[Paul Hazelwood]

People misunderstand that a "scientific fact" is not an assertion of truth it has to do with the scientific method.

[sparrow]

Evolution does not threaten spirituality.

Agreed.

[Molly]

People are always saying the theory of evolution is a fact, there is no God..
and I'm just sitting there thinking..   huh? 
Even IF the THEORY of evolution were to become a FACT, how does that mean there is no God?
I never understood that.

Because--either you are a glorified monkey, evolved from prehistoric slime, by accident, without purpose, here have a banana, grunt!--

or

You were created by God discretely, with a purpose, in his image and likeness, just like the Bible says.


Big difference in how you think of yourself and the existence of God. 

[Doc]

People are always saying the theory of evolution is a fact, there is no God..
and I'm just sitting there thinking..   huh? 
Even IF the THEORY of evolution were to become a FACT, how does that mean there is no God?
I never understood that.

Because--either you are a glorified monkey, evolved from prehistoric slime, by accident, without purpose, here have a banana, grunt!--

or

You were created by God discretely, with a purpose, in his image and likeness, just like the Bible says.


Big difference in how you think of yourself and the existence of God. 

The problem is that you, like most Christians, see this as an either/ or thing; partially by creating a caricature of the current evolutionary position.

Now personally, I'm on the fence with regard to macroevolution, and I lean toward Old Earth Creationism, and certainly intelligent design. The "spiritual" argument between creation and evolution as I see it, mostly comes down to a question of timing and methodology used by God.

[sparrow]

The problem is that you, like most Christians, see this as an either/ or thing; partially by creating a caricature of the current evolutionary position.

Now personally, I'm on the fence with regard to macroevolution, and I lean toward Old Earth Creationism, and certainly intelligent design. The "spiritual" argument between creation and evolution as I see it, mostly comes down to a question of timing and methodology used by God.

Yeah, Doc.. I agree with you.

People on both sides of the argument are guilty of this (making it an either/or thing.)

I think more folks should learn how to do that fence sitting thing...and ponder more, and keep their eyes and ears and hearts and minds open.

[Molly]

People are always saying the theory of evolution is a fact, there is no God..
and I'm just sitting there thinking..   huh? 
Even IF the THEORY of evolution were to become a FACT, how does that mean there is no God?
I never understood that.

Because--either you are a glorified monkey, evolved from prehistoric slime, by accident, without purpose, here have a banana, grunt!--

or

You were created by God discretely, with a purpose, in his image and likeness, just like the Bible says.


Big difference in how you think of yourself and the existence of God. 

The problem is that you, like most Christians, see this as an either/ or thing; partially by creating a caricature of the current evolutionary position.

Now personally, I'm on the fence with regard to macroevolution, and I lean toward Old Earth Creationism, and certainly intelligent design. The "spiritual" argument between creation and evolution as I see it, mostly comes down to a question of timing and methodology used by God.

Not really.  I originally was taught evolution as theory, and not as science, and the many problems with it were obvious.  So I never really took it seriously.  It's only recently as I've watched the academic world being forced to embrace it as fact that I've asked myself--now why would they do that?   And, I've decided it was done to impact how children think about themselves.  In short, it's a subtle form of propaganda.

[sparrow]

People are always saying the theory of evolution is a fact, there is no God..
and I'm just sitting there thinking..   huh? 
Even IF the THEORY of evolution were to become a FACT, how does that mean there is no God?
I never understood that.

Because--either you are a glorified monkey, evolved from prehistoric slime, by accident, without purpose, here have a banana, grunt!--

or

You were created by God discretely, with a purpose, in his image and likeness, just like the Bible says.


Big difference in how you think of yourself and the existence of God. 

The problem is that you, like most Christians, see this as an either/ or thing; partially by creating a caricature of the current evolutionary position.

Now personally, I'm on the fence with regard to macroevolution, and I lean toward Old Earth Creationism, and certainly intelligent design. The "spiritual" argument between creation and evolution as I see it, mostly comes down to a question of timing and methodology used by God.

Not really.  I originally was taught evolution as theory, and not as science, and the many problems with it were obvious.  So I never really took it seriously.  It's only recently as I've watched the academic world being forced to embrace it as fact that I've asked myself--now why would they do that?   And, I've decided it was done to impact how children think about themselves.  In short, it's a subtle form of propaganda.

Y'know, Molly... I've actually thought about that, too... and wondered.
With all the rest of the propaganda out in society (which is a whole other can-o-worms), it does make sense... this is just one more thing to add to the list.

oy.. back up on my fence to sit and ponder..

[Paul Hazelwood]

People are always saying the theory of evolution is a fact, there is no God..
and I'm just sitting there thinking..   huh? 
Even IF the THEORY of evolution were to become a FACT, how does that mean there is no God?
I never understood that.

Because--either you are a glorified monkey, evolved from prehistoric slime, by accident, without purpose, here have a banana, grunt!--

or

You were created by God discretely, with a purpose, in his image and likeness, just like the Bible says.


Big difference in how you think of yourself and the existence of God. 

Irrevalent,  however we got here has nothing to do with Gods love.  Nothing at all.  Gods love superceeds it all.

It is about a system of belief emotionally abusing people by making them think they have the only interpretation for worth.

[Molly]

People are always saying the theory of evolution is a fact, there is no God..
and I'm just sitting there thinking..   huh? 
Even IF the THEORY of evolution were to become a FACT, how does that mean there is no God?
I never understood that.

Because--either you are a glorified monkey, evolved from prehistoric slime, by accident, without purpose, here have a banana, grunt!--

or

You were created by God discretely, with a purpose, in his image and likeness, just like the Bible says.


Big difference in how you think of yourself and the existence of God. 

Irrevalent,  however we got here has nothing to do with Gods love.  Nothing at all.  Gods love superceeds it all.

It is about a system of belief emotionally abusing people by making them think they have the only interpretation for worth.

All the systems of the world abuse people--whether you are made to feel like a monkey, a heretic,  or an outcast.  Even the in group is always in danger of speedy disappearance.

But, his kingdom is not of this world--although I'm praying for it to be...