Baptized by fire.

[IceDash]

This interesting topic we should learn alot about who is God

When i read Jesus talking about baptise, he said "not by water but by fire"

This is very interesting

God is the consuming fire, right? Remember that burning bush but it didn't consume? Is that the foreshadow of what God will do to Human like the bush itself?

And other interesting: lake of fire

Lake can mean "pond" or "small sea"

many people in church or past church like Paul was baptise (even Jesus) in river and lake, but get this: lake of fire, is God itself the "lake of fire" to clean our sins but not ourself?

This is so confounding interesting shocking secret that open my very eyes! the lake of fire was the very same thing Jesus talk about "not by water but baptsed by fire!"

isn't that interesting?

[ScarletWren]

Hi Ice Dash,

Where are  you from?  Just curious.

Yes, it's a real eye opener when we begin to connect things like the baptism by fire and the fact that God is a consuming fire.  It gets even better.

[IceDash]

I am from USA, american and I know my grammer is bad, forgive me.

[Nathan]

Icedash . . .what you just shared will never be taught in a conventional church setting.  But what you just shared is also Truth.  You are absolutely correct in our assessment.  The lake of fire is the Father . .and it's not for eternal damnation, but for the purification of our natures . . .if we reject Christ . . .but if we accept Christ, we are then "baptized" in the very lake the church has deemed to be destruction.  I can't help but chuckle at that now . . .  The very thing I used to use as leverage to scare people into heaven so they "won't" go there . . .little did I know that by accepting Christ . .not only have we gone there, but we've been baptized there.

This door of revelation you've just entered, is the same door that I came through before I realized I believed in UR.  I didn't know there was a name for it.  I came by way of the comparison or blueprint of the tabernacle overlaying the book of revelation.  One is a pattern after Christ, the other is a revelation of Christ . . .by overlaying the revelation to the pattern (tabernacle) you can see all the similarities referred to in revelation, are actually points of ministry in the tabernacle.

The one you're referring to . .is the laver . .the lake of fire is a presentation of the laver . .the priests used it to cleanse themselves after sacrificing the animal (the beast within me) as they prepared to enter into the temple itself.  But yeah, the lake of fire is the same as the Father . . .a consuming fire.  It's not consuming men . . it's consuming the "nature of man". 

I think in the revelation of this, even I get carried away with that in the excitement and often overlook the fact that the lake of fire is not for us . .it's for those who reject Christ.  We personally do not experience this lake . . .Christ experienced it for us . .we are clean because he has cleansed.  Not because we ourselves wash off the filth and unclean things in us, but Christ already did all of that "for" us.  He was "the" high priest . .the only priest who ever sacrficed himself for the sin of the world.

The lake of fire is a great revelation to be sure . . .but even greater is the fact that "that" price is already paid for those who have the honor of coming into the family of heaven while still breathing in these fleshly bodies of decay.

These things you are seeing are not things that can be taught . . .they can be shared, but until you personally experience them for yourself . . . they can't be taught by another . . .it is truly something God has given to you personally . . .how cool is that!!!


Matthew 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

[IceDash]

Yeah I know, the burning bush really suprised me because God himself didn't burn the bush itself, I was thinking about what Paul said about we are tired by Fire (test)

it almost the same thing.

[Nathan]

Yup, God's not interested in destroying the tree, just purifying it from the infirmities that come from the earth that it's roots are embedded in.  We are spiritual trees, but we are still planted in these bodies of flesh.  And as such, they are suseptible to decay and disease in the physcial sense . .and disorder and misalignment in the spiritual sense . .with me being led by my mind rather than by my spirit . .my mind is the carnality part of my nature.  It can be renewed . . .but it's a process . .and it must learn discipline and submission . .not to the works that manifest without, but to the spirit within.

[WhiteWings]

God is the consuming fire, right?

Few verses I collected that link God to fire. For you to figure out if they are (eternally) negative.

Acts 7:30  And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
1 Chronicles 21:26  And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings, and called upon the LORD; and he answered him from heaven by fire upon the altar of burnt offering.
1 Corinthians 3:13  .... for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Deuteronomy 4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Ezekiel 1:27  And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, ....  saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about ....
Genesis 15:17  ....  behold a smoking furnace (God), and a burning lamp (God) that passed between those pieces (cut up sacrificial animals).
Hebrews 1:7  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hebrews 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire
Isaiah 4:4  .... and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Isaiah 4:5  ....  a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.
James 3:5  Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
Judges 6:21  Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight.
Luke 3:16  ....  he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Þ Baptism is a positive act.
Malachi 3:2  But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Malachi 3:3  And he shall sit as a refiner (uses fire) and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi (priests), and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mark 9:49-50  or every one shall be salted with fire .... Salt is good ....
Matthew 3:11  .... whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
2 Kings 6:17  And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
1 Peter 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried (=tested) with fire ....
1 Peter 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
Psalm 18:8  There went up a smoke out of his (God) nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
Psalm 66:10-12  .... thou hast tried us, as silver is tried (=tested) .... we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy place.
Psalm 104:4  Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Romans 12:20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him (=love); if he thirst, give him drink (=love): for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire (=love) on his head.

[WhiteWings]

Yeah I know, the burning bush really suprised me because God himself didn't burn the bush itself, I was thinking about what Paul said about we are tired by Fire (test)

it almost the same thing.

To be honest with you ID I find the burning bush one on the worst examples that can be given.
Not because what you, and Nathan in the next post, said but because ET uses it to prove that the bodies (=bush) don't burn away. The bodies stay 'in good shape' to fully experience the torture.

[WhiteWings]

I want to add that the word 'torture' not in the KJV. The word 'torment' is.

Tormented
928 basani,zw basanizo {bas-an-id'-zo}
Meaning: 
to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the color of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal

See that? Test for purity. Do the person in hell need to be tested forever if s/he never gets out?
Or is it that the test after a while shows you are pure?
I think the last answer.
Add to that what you wrote "God is the fire" you see the fire of hell is the spirit of God.
"for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap"
The "he" is God. Not a red devil with a pitchfork.

[IceDash]

I want to add that the word 'torture' not in the KJV. The word 'torment' is.

Tormented
928 basani,zw basanizo {bas-an-id'-zo}
Meaning: 
to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the color of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal

See that? Test for purity. Do the person in hell need to be tested forever if s/he never gets out?
Or is it that the test after a while shows you are pure?
I think the last answer.
Add to that what you wrote "God is the fire" you see the fire of hell is the spirit of God.
"for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap"
The "he" is God. Not a red devil with a pitchfork.

I look torment in my dictorary, it mean "pain, agony" why it is differant?

[jabcat]

Need to go back to the original languages...many things, including Bible concordances and dictionaries can be tainted with later, modernized, and biased interpretations...in the Greek it is basaniðzw, transliterated as   Basanizo, with the definition of "to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal"

This could literally be painful at least to some degree...many times God has wrought good in my life, but it didn't always come without some degree of sorrow, grief, loss, pain...

God's blessing, James.

[IceDash]

you mean Gay was happy but now homosexual?

[jabcat]

Maybe something like that  :laughing7:.  It's funny now to hear those old songs, like "don we now our gay apparel, fa, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la"...

actually, torture/pain etc. is still part of the "original" definition, but further on down the list...like I said though, even God's corrective discipline, though for the good and not for eternity, can still be uncomfortable and even painful...

The New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number:  928   basaniðzw
Original Word   Word Origin
   basaniðzw       from (931)
Transliterated Word   Phonetic Spelling
   Basanizo       bas-an-id'-zo 
Parts of Speech   TDNT
   Verb       1:561,96
Definition
   

   1. to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal
   2. to question by applying torture
   3. to torture
   4. to vex with grievous pains (of body or mind), to torment
   5. to be harassed, distressed
         1. of those who at sea are struggling with a head wind

[IceDash]

Maybe something like that  :laughing7:.  It's funny now to hear those old songs, like "don we now our gay apparel, fa, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la"...

actually, torture/pain etc. is still part of the "original" definition, but further on down the list...like I said though, even God's corrective discipline, though for the good and not for eternity, can still be uncomfortable and even painful...

The New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number:  928   basaniðzw
Original Word   Word Origin
   basaniðzw       from (931)
Transliterated Word   Phonetic Spelling
   Basanizo       bas-an-id'-zo 
Parts of Speech   TDNT
   Verb       1:561,96
Definition
   

   1. to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal
   2. to question by applying torture
   3. to torture
   4. to vex with grievous pains (of body or mind), to torment
   5. to be harassed, distressed
         1. of those who at sea are struggling with a head wind

so you saying the UR choose number one door because of wishful thiking?

[jabcat]

That's not what I said, but is that what you think, that it's wishful thinking?

My understanding (along with the over 600 UR scriptures in the Bible) is that usually the first definition listed is the most common or primary meaning.  Also, again, back to the original languages...like I would MUCH prefer the Concordant or Christian Bible (more accurate to the original) vs. something like The Message for instance.

Sample of UR scriptures...you decide if this is the Word of God or wishful thinking  :thumbsup:

Gen 18:18.......ALL families of the earth will be blessed
> Ps 86:9...........ALL nations will worship God & ALL men blessed
> Ps 65:2-4........ALL flesh will come to God
> Ezk 16:55........Sodom will be restored
> Is 2:2..............ALL nations will flow to the Lord's house
> Lam 3:31-32...God will not cast off forever
> Is 25:7..............He will destroy the veil that's cast over ALL
> Is 25:8..............He will wipe away tears from ALL faces
>
> Eph 1:11..........God works ALL things after counsel of His will (will = thelema, not echomai, which means wish)
> Jn 8:29.............Jesus ALWAYS does which pleases His Father
> I Tim 2:4.........God will have ALL to be saved
> I Jn 4:14..........Jesus sent to be the Savior of the world (not 'to' the world, or potentially of....but of)
> Jn 12:32.........Jesus will draw ALL to Himself (Greek word is literally 'drag' all)
> Eph 1:10........ALL come into Him at the fulness of times
> Rm 11:26.......ALL Israel will be saved
> Act 3:20-21....Restitution (Reconstitution) of ALL
> Lk 2:10...........Jesus will be the joy to ALL people
> Eph 2:7...........His grace to be shown in the ages to come
> Heb 8:11-12...ALL will know God
> Lk 3:6.............ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God
> Titus 2:11.......Grace has appeared to ALL
> Rm 8:19-21....Creation freed from corruption...(everything is created except the Father, His Spirit, and the Son).
> Col 1:20..........ALL reconciled unto God
> II Cor 5:17.......ALL becomes a new creation in Christ
> Rm 11:32.........ALL subjected to unbelief, mercy on ALL
> Rev 5:13...........ALL creation seen praising God
> I Cor 15:28.......God will be ALL in ALL
> Rev 21:4-5........No more tears, ALL things made new
> Jn 6:39.............And this is the Father's...I should lose nothing
> Jn 6:12.............Gather up the fragments...that nothing be lost
> I Cor 3:15.........ALL saved, yet so as by fire
> I Jn 2:2..............Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world
> Rm 11:15..........Reconciliation of the world
> Jn 3:35..............ALL has been given into His hand
> Jn 17:2..............Jesus will give eternal life to ALL that His Father gives Him
> Jn 6:44-45.........ALL to be taught of God and will come
> I Tim 4:9-11......Jesus is the Savior of ALL
> Gal 3 ................All nations shall be blessed
>
> James 5:11..........the end of the Lord is full of mercy
>
>

[IceDash]

I know every "all" stuff

I just kinda confused with "fear him for he can destory body and soul. That's all, that's the only thing

[WhiteWings]

IceDash,

Nasty me left out the other defenitions. Mainly to bring across my point.
And partly it's a cut and paste of some summary I made for myself. The rest of teh summary backs up that defenition a little more. It uses colors and the formatting is unreadeble when posted here.

You are right that picking that one can be seen as wishfull thinking.
Personally I think almost all verses can be twisted to fit your own doctrine.
The real test, again IMO, is this:
- Twist all verses the way you like.
- Then rewrite your Bible with those twisted verses (so in our example write "are tested" instead of "tortured"
- Then read the Bible.

Does the story of the Bible still make sense when using ALL twisted verses?

[jabcat]

I know every "all" stuff

I just kinda confused with "fear him for he can destory body and soul. That's all, that's the only thing

Jesus was exhorting his disciples to have entire faith in God. The most that men can do is to destroy the body, but God "is able," "hath power" to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. It is not said that God has any disposition or purpose of doing so. He is able to do it, as it is said (Matt. iii:9) he is "able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." He never did, and never will raise up children to Abraham of the stones of the street, but he is able to, just as he is able to destroy soul and body in Gehenna, while men could only destroy the body there. Fear the mighty power of God, who could, if he chose, annihilate man, while the worst that men could do would be to destroy mere animal life. It is a forcible exhortation to trust in God, and has no reference to torment after death. fear not those who can only torture you--man--but fear God who can annihilate, (apokteino).

1 This language was addressed by Christ to his disciples, and not to sinners.

2 It proves God's ablility to annihilate (destroy) and not his purpose to torment. Donnegan defines appollumi, "to destroy utterly."

As though Jesus had said: "Fear not those who can only kill the body, but rather him, who, if he chose could annihilate the whole being. Fear not man but God."

[Sarah]

just kinda confused with "fear him for he can destory body and soul. That's all, that's the only thing

Don't fear the one who has power just to destroy the body, but the one who has power to throw it into Gehenna. Who had the power to throw it into Gehenna? The Pharisees. Fear him! Fear the one who gives you leaven that can destroy your soul. Beware of him! We should certainly fear God, but this verse is speaking of the Pharisee. It would be ironic if he were saying to fear God to His disciples, as that is who he was speaking to, as only a few verses later He is saying not to fear God because He takes care of the sparrow.

[IceDash]

well I fear the torture, no one can beat the torture.

[WhiteWings]

IceDash,

I searched some topics about this subject. I asked teh same question myself.
Answer/conclusion:
Don't fear them who can kill you for your belief in Christ; but fear them who can trick you into turning away from your belief in Christ




http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=3456.0
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=3191.msg33819#msg33819
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=3191.msg33964#msg33964


----------------
First of all the word "able" doesn't say it will happen.
I'm quite sure this verse is already covered on this forum. Can't find it right now.
What I remember from it is that:
Destruction of the body: That's with weapons.
Destruction of the soul: False teachings.

So the verse simply states false teachings are far more destructive than weapons.