God promised to destory death

[IceDash]

I read: "god will wipe away tear"

Does that mean we will never cry? That might be it.

"take away sorrow"

I have a good question, if God take away sorrow, why people still have sorrow in hell?

"no more death"

Why there are second death?!


I know the church will answer: "God is talking about the saved people"

But it didn't said "who"

[ScarletWren]

Some very good thoughts Ice Dash.

I sort of like the thought of there still being some tears in the Kingdom of God.  Tears of happiness, when the joy fills you so full that it spills over in tears.  But no tears will flow from sadness.

So how could you not cry at the thought of a mother or father, son, sister, etc suffering forever or even that they no longer exist.  I've never had a miscarriage but if I did, I would still yearn to see and hold that lost child, how much more a child that I loved and nurtured for years?  And God's love transcends that.  I couldn't reconcile that in my mind, so I tried not to think about that aspect.  I've heard that God wipes their memory from us.  So if  you were part of a muslim family, you have no memory of any family then? I see no scriptural support for the amnesia theory.   I see no way that sorrow could be eliminated even from the 'saved' if ET or annihilation is true.  It would make me sad to think of persons I've never even met separated from happiness in whatever form men may devise.  Heck, I hope that animals are resurrected and I can give love to some of those poor creatures who lived loveless lives, lol.  I know most people think that's stretching it, but heck, I'm a softie.

Second death, hmmm, I think there's a thread about that on here somewhere.  Try to read that.  I don't have anything that would not confuse you more, probably.

[WhiteWings]

I read: "god will wipe away tear"

Does that mean we will never cry? That might be it.

I think there can still be tears of joy.
IMO this and the next verse is just a poetic way of saying that all the negative sides of life are gone.

"take away sorrow"

I have a good question, if God take away sorrow, why people still have sorrow in hell?

(Some) ETs will answer that by saying people hate God so much they are happy in hell because they no longer have to hear about God.
Personally I think the 'taking away' is the last phase.
Something like: Life->punishment/sorrow->remove all negative things->eternity

"no more death"

Why there are second death?!

It's part of the path from Birth to eternity.
In case you relate death to hell
- It doesn't say death is eternal. -> God defeats death
- It doesn't say death=hell -> it even says the dead know nothing. My guess is that those in the classic hell will certainly know what pain is.

I know the church will answer: "God is talking about the saved people"

But it didn't said "who"

That's true.
Saved people go to heaven and unsaved people will burn in hell for eternity.
Lucky for us Jesus saved all...... :laughing7:
One has to be careful limitting the word all when it isn't very clearly limited.
What does "God is the highest of all" mean?
He's just the highest of the 5% believers in earth? The other 95% are owned by a higher/other god?
When Jesus is send to save all of Gods creation it doesn't mean only 5% because the other 95% is created by another god.

Finally I want to say look at the verses in my signature. Especially the last one. I think they are (part of) your answer.

[IceDash]

Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ....

what does that mean?


Anyway, then why jesus talking about people will have gashing of their teeth or will be throw away and burn?

[WhiteWings]

Hi IceDash,

I quote what I wrote 45 minutes ago in another thread:

The first 2 verses are good.
But the third one is albout the best verse ever for me.
It seems to destroy all arguments that we should read "all" in a limited way as in "elect"

Either you are saved by the first verse because you are in the (limited) 'all group'.
If you somehow don't fit into that group you are ungodly and are saved by the 3rd verse.

All three verses combined for me simply say no matter if there are or aren't groups; you are at least in one group.
Both groups will be saved. Perhaps/likely in a different way. But still be saved. (saved doesn't mean hell)
So when I read ungodly I read sinners, unbelievers, thiefs, satanists, etc etc.
And (even) those people are declared righteous.
The key word here is declared. It's a act of God. Not many trying to (not) be righteous.

[Zeek]

I read: "god will wipe away tear"

Does that mean we will never cry? That might be it.

I think there can still be tears of joy.
IMO this and the next verse is just a poetic way of saying that all the negative sides of life are gone.

"take away sorrow"

I have a good question, if God take away sorrow, why people still have sorrow in hell?

(Some) ETs will answer that by saying people hate God so much they are happy in hell because they no longer have to hear about God.
Personally I think the 'taking away' is the last phase.
Something like: Life->punishment/sorrow->remove all negative things->eternity

"no more death"

Why there are second death?!

It's part of the path from Birth to eternity.
In case you relate death to hell
- It doesn't say death is eternal. -> God defeats death
- It doesn't say death=hell -> it even says the dead know nothing. My guess is that those in the classic hell will certainly know what pain is.

I know the church will answer: "God is talking about the saved people"

But it didn't said "who"

That's true.
Saved people go to heaven and unsaved people will burn in hell for eternity.
Lucky for us Jesus saved all...... :laughing7:
One has to be careful limitting the word all when it isn't very clearly limited.
What does "God is the highest of all" mean?
He's just the highest of the 5% believers in earth? The other 95% are owned by a higher/other god?
When Jesus is send to save all of Gods creation it doesn't mean only 5% because the other 95% is created by another god.

Finally I want to say look at the verses in my signature. Especially the last one. I think they are (part of) your answer.

Psa 30:5  For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favor is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

law/grace
Night/Day
Night/Morning
Death/LIFE

etc. 


there has been some good posts here about night, day/morning. 

Rev 22:16  I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


Rom 13:11  And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Rom 13:12  The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.

Rom 13:13  Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

Rom 13:14  But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.

[Zeek]

Psa 16:11  Thou wilt show me the path of life: in thy presence is fullness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures forevermore.

[Zeek]

Psa 48:2  Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

Heb 12:18  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


Gal 4:21  Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

weeping under law

Gal 4:22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.


tears vs. joy



Gal 4:24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.


bondage/tears



Gal 4:25  For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not; for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath a husband.

Gal 4:28  Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.



Psa 116:8  For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.

[Jaareshiah]

The scripture in question is at Revelation 21:3,4. This is a vision of a "new heaven and a new earth", and in which the "former heaven and former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more."(Rev 21:1) These symbolisms do not not mean a literal "new heaven and new earth" nor "sea", for Revelation was written in signs.(Rev 1:1) Psalms 104:5 says that God "has founded the earth upon the established places; it will not be made to totter to time indefinite or forever".

Furthermore, God has said that "the heavens are my throne and the earth is my footstool."(Isa 66:1) Thus, the earth will remain for all eternity as God's "footstool". God will not destroy the literal heavens nor earth, for these are "perfect" in his eyes. Genesis 1:31 says, after completion of the earth at the end of the sixth "creative" day, that "God saw everything he had made and look ! it was very good."

The apostle Peter, after reminding faithful Christians to keep "close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah", then says that "there are a new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell."(2 Pet 3:12,13) He was quoting from Isaiah 66:22, that had a minor fulfilllment some 500 years before Jesus arrived on the earth when the Jews were repatriated to their homeland in 537 B.C E. from ancient Babylon. So what is this "new heaven and new earth" and why is there a need for these ? Too, what is meant by the "former heaven and former earth" that passes away ?

The literal heavens are that which people look up at. The Bible also uses "heavens" as that which mankind looks up to, such as human governments. These human governments have provided no genuine relief for mankind, with the problems facing those on the earth escalating. Due to man's selfishness or unwillingness to halt the destruction of the earth, God has decreed to "bring to ruin those ruining the earth."(Rev 11:18)

Thus the "former heavens" are human governmental arrangements that have failed not only to relieve the stress upon the earth, but instead are shown to be corrupt. These are to be removed forever, along with the "former earth....and sea", wicked human society that have placed their trust in the "former heavens" or the world's governmental arrangement that is manipulated by Satan, with the "sea" being the restless part of humanity that is always vying for a change.

Jesus, in giving the prophecy concerning his "promised presence" in these "last days", said that when He ' comes ', that on the "earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation".(Luke 21:25) The "sea" or restless wicked mankind, will see no way out when Jesus ' comes '.(Luke 21:27) The apostle John wrote that "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."(1 John 5:19)  Hence, the "former heaven and former earth...and sea" will be "no more" after God disposes of them at the battle of Armageddon.(Rev 16:16)

So then, what is the "new heaven and a new earth" ? Since the "former heavens" were human governmental arrangements, the "new heavens" is a government of God's making - his heavenly kingdom (Luke 8:1), a new governmental system, whereby those who love their Creator, exercising faith in his Son, Jesus, shed blood, can receive everlasting life on a paradise earth.(Luke 23:43) The "new earth" are those of the cleansed society that have changed their life course and adhered closely to God's laws and in which the apostle Peter said that "righteousness" would dwell.(2 Peter 3:13)

In the paradise earth, the "sea is no more". No more will anyone be wanting a "change", no restless human society, no more human governments that have their own national boundaries, with each group having their own form of rulership.  At Revelation 21:3-5, the promise is made by God that he will "wipe out every tear (of sorrow) from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain (of heart) be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: "Look ! I am making all things new. Also, he says: "Write, because these words are faithful and true."

Thus, the "former heaven" or human governmental systems, along with those who support them, the "former earth"and "sea", will be forever removed, to be replaced with a "new heaven" or God's kingdom, and a "new earth", those who follow the laws of that heavenly government and live on the earth forever, as God originally purposed in the Garden of Eden. The "new earth" or cleansed society, will enjoy an "abundance of peace" forever on a paradise earth, never having to deal with sickness nor death nor ' pain of heart ' again.(Ps 37:11; Isa 25:6-8)