Matt 7:21-23 "I never knew you"

[70sevens]

Right...there's just too many things that keep happening AFTER judgment...IMO, much more involved in God's Big Plan than mainstream's die, immediately heaven or hell forever.

Man, that's good, Jab. American Christianity stops way too short IMO too.

cp

If we are in hell now, we will be in hell forever.
If we are in heaven now, we will be in heaven forever.

Future is 'now', forever is 'now'.
Cure 'now',  Heal 'now'!

[Sarah]

dont know...this whole concept of everyone gets to go to heaven eventually seems like just wishful thinking to me,

You need a paradigm shift. You see heaven and hell as a destination. In reality it is our walk. The Kingdom of heaven is relationship, whereas hell is blindness and deafness. The ditch, the fire and the worms are all natural places for the blind stumbling along. Is is difficult to believe that He is able to cure the blind, all the blind?

[claypot]

dont know...this whole concept of everyone gets to go to heaven eventually seems like just wishful thinking to me,

You need a paradigm shift. You see heaven and hell as a destination. In reality it is our walk. The Kingdom of heaven is relationship, whereas hell is blindness and deafness. The ditch, the fire and the worms are all natural places for the blind stumbling along. Is is difficult to believe that He is able to cure the blind, all the blind?

Sarah, what you said speaks to me a very good way, thanks.

cp

[jabcat]

dont know...this whole concept of everyone gets to go to heaven eventually seems like just wishful thinking to me,

You need a paradigm shift. You see heaven and hell as a destination. In reality it is our walk. The Kingdom of heaven is relationship, whereas hell is blindness and deafness. The ditch, the fire and the worms are all natural places for the blind stumbling along. Is is difficult to believe that He is able to cure the blind, all the blind?

Sarah, what you said speaks to me a very good way, thanks.

cp

Me too  :thumbsup:.

[Doc]

Yep. I'm realizing that in my own life. I think you're right on, Sarah.

I think that may be part of what God is showing/ teaching me right now, in fact.

[legoman]

Just responding to your original post Ninja.  Here are the verses again from the KJV:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Lets look at verse 21.  What is it really saying?:  If you don't do the will of the father, you aren't getting into heaven.  Personally I'm glad on this one.  I wouldn't want to get to heaven and find out that I still have to worry about liars, thieves, and murderers roaming about.

So there will be no liars, thieves, and murderers that make it into the kingdom of heaven.  But wait you say.  What about all the people that are currently liars, thieves, or murderers (doesn't that include just about everyone)?  What will happen to them?  Well, they will be changed.  They will be refined in God's consuming fire (see 1 Cor 3:12-15).  When God is done with them, they won't want to lie, steal, or murder anymore.  They will want to be with Jesus, and then they will get into the kingdom of heaven by accepting Him as their savior.

Moving on to verse 22.  What does it say?:  Well, on that day... (what is that day?)  It is the day when Christ returns.  When Christ returns, many will say "Lord did we not do great stuff in your name?" but alas, they were not really in Christ.  They only did vain works of the flesh, not the glorifying works of the spirit that God gives us to do (Eph 2:10).  So as we see in verse 23, on that day, many will think they are getting into heaven, but they will be in for a surprise.  Instead they go somewhere else - the outer darkness, the lake of fire, into eonian shame.

So to summarize this is what we learn from the above verses:
- only those who do the will of the father will get into heaven
- when Christ returns many will not get into heaven on that day
- that's all, that's it: no eternal damnation, hellfire mentioned at all

Indeed only a few will be saved when Christ returns, but the rest go into the Lake of Fire.  No biblical UR believer would deny this.

So perhaps that is a good place to focus your studies:  What is the Lake of Fire?  How long does it last?  What is its purpose?  There are many pages of articles that have been written about this from the UR perspective on this site and other sites.  Its a good place to start - feel free to start another thread on it if you want.

Cheers,
Legoman

[Nathan]

dont know...this whole concept of everyone gets to go to heaven eventually seems like just wishful thinking to me,

You need a paradigm shift. You see heaven and hell as a destination. In reality it is our walk. The Kingdom of heaven is relationship, whereas hell is blindness and deafness. The ditch, the fire and the worms are all natural places for the blind stumbling along. Is is difficult to believe that He is able to cure the blind, all the blind?

Sarah, what you said speaks to me a very good way, thanks.

cp

Me too  :thumbsup:.

Is not hell the same as the lake of fire in purpose?  Is it not used to purge and cleanse?  Perhaps I'm mistaken.  But I think most here agree that it's temporary.  So what's it's purpose?  If it "is" to purify, then how would that relate to it being blindness and deafness?  I kinda thought the blind and deaf would go through hell which eventually, that process would enable them to eventually see.  When I see hell cast into the lake of fire . . .I took that to mean they are one and the same . .in purpose if nothing else. No?

[legoman]

dont know...this whole concept of everyone gets to go to heaven eventually seems like just wishful thinking to me,

You need a paradigm shift. You see heaven and hell as a destination. In reality it is our walk. The Kingdom of heaven is relationship, whereas hell is blindness and deafness. The ditch, the fire and the worms are all natural places for the blind stumbling along. Is is difficult to believe that He is able to cure the blind, all the blind?

Sarah, what you said speaks to me a very good way, thanks.

cp

Me too  :thumbsup:.

Is not hell the same as the lake of fire in purpose?  Is it not used to purge and cleanse?  Perhaps I'm mistaken.  But I think most here agree that it's temporary.  So what's it's purpose?  If it "is" to purify, then how would that relate to it being blindness and deafness?  I kinda thought the blind and deaf would go through hell which eventually, that process would enable them to eventually see.  When I see hell cast into the lake of fire . . .I took that to mean they are one and the same . .in purpose if nothing else. No?

Depends which "hell" you are talking about.  You must have read some of the articles on TM about this, if not I recommend it.

"hell" doesn't even exist in the bible.  Its terribly mistranslated from 4 different words:
- sheol (OT)/hades (NT) - these just refer to the state of the dead/being in the grave, and is a place of unconsciousness, also referred to as "sleeping" ie. death is like sleep
- gehenna - Jesus spoke of Gehenna which was the local garbage dump where they burned up all the waste.  Jesus used it as a metaphor for judgement (ie. God's fiery trials).
- tartarus - I believe this is only referred to 1 time and is an abyss - I don't know too much about this one reference

Anyway Hell (Hades/Sheol) is thrown into the Lake of Fire in Rev 20:14 when death is abolished - this makes sense cause with death gone, there is no need for the "grave/state of the dead" anymore.

The Lake of fire is not the same thing as any of these "hells".

Legoman

[rosered]

dont know...this whole concept of everyone gets to go to heaven eventually seems like just wishful thinking to me,

You need a paradigm shift. You see heaven and hell as a destination. In reality it is our walk. The Kingdom of heaven is relationship, whereas hell is blindness and deafness. The ditch, the fire and the worms are all natural places for the blind stumbling along. Is is difficult to believe that He is able to cure the blind, all the blind?

Sarah, what you said speaks to me a very good way, thanks.

cp

Me too  :thumbsup:.

Is not hell the same as the lake of fire in purpose?  Is it not used to purge and cleanse?  Perhaps I'm mistaken.  But I think most here agree that it's temporary.  So what's it's purpose?  If it "is" to purify, then how would that relate to it being blindness and deafness?  I kinda thought the blind and deaf would go through hell which eventually, that process would enable them to eventually see.  When I see hell cast into the lake of fire . . .I took that to mean they are one and the same . .in purpose if nothing else. No?

I believe  that if God is the consuming fire and   hell and death are also cast into it  in the End  
 will not than God be all in ALL ?  gives a new meaning to

the consumation  !

 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.


1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.


1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1Cr 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


:HeartThrob:  
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. !!!! :2c:

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

   many wonder just what the lake of fire is
   to me it is  the embodiment of many poeoples tongues and nations
  Isaiah 33 The LORD is exalted; for he dwelleth on high: he hath filled Zion with judgment and righteousness.


Isa 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, [and] strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD [is] his treasure.


Isa 33:7 Behold, their valiant ones shall cry without: the ambassadors of peace shall weep bitterly.


Isa 33:8 The highways lie waste, the wayfaring man ceaseth: he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.


Isa 33:9 The earth mourneth [and] languisheth: Lebanon is ashamed [and] hewn down: Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off [their fruits].


Isa 33:10 Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.


Isa 33:11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, [as] fire, shall devour you.


Isa 33:12 And the people shall be [as] the burnings of lime: [as] thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.


Isa 33:13 Hear, ye [that are] far off, what I have done; and, ye [that are] near, acknowledge my might.


Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?


Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;


Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence [shall be] the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters [shall be] sure.

[Doc]

dont know...this whole concept of everyone gets to go to heaven eventually seems like just wishful thinking to me,

You need a paradigm shift. You see heaven and hell as a destination. In reality it is our walk. The Kingdom of heaven is relationship, whereas hell is blindness and deafness. The ditch, the fire and the worms are all natural places for the blind stumbling along. Is is difficult to believe that He is able to cure the blind, all the blind?

Sarah, what you said speaks to me a very good way, thanks.

cp

Me too  :thumbsup:.

Is not hell the same as the lake of fire in purpose?  Is it not used to purge and cleanse?  Perhaps I'm mistaken.  But I think most here agree that it's temporary.  So what's it's purpose?  If it "is" to purify, then how would that relate to it being blindness and deafness?  I kinda thought the blind and deaf would go through hell which eventually, that process would enable them to eventually see.  When I see hell cast into the lake of fire . . .I took that to mean they are one and the same . .in purpose if nothing else. No?

:Chinscratch: Well, I certainly don't see it that way. I think that historically, seeing "hell" and the lake of fire as one and the same has been what's gotten us into trouble with our traditional theology of hell. We mix literalistic imagery of Gehenna, Tartarus and Hades with a literalistic interpretation of the lake of fire and come up with the "christian" ET hell. I think that the mere fact that Death and Hell (Hades) are thrown into the lake of fire makes it clear that they are not the same... In purpose or otherwise.  :2c:

[Nathan]

I'm not sure if it's the weather, we've had two 7 inch + snowstorms back to back go through with subzero temps . . .or if it's because I've been putting in so many hours . .but things are foggy today with me for some reason. 


I very much agree hell . .as we've been taught it to be, is not really what Scripture portrays it to be.  I do believe the lake of fire is God as Scripture states he is consuming fire.  But what is it that he's consuming?  People? I don't think so, I think his presence consumes carnality . .carnalism.  For me, hell is simply the grave . . .and those dead are thrown into the lake with death . . .which for me has to do with separation.  All things that are separated are once again brought back into "One". 

Maybe I need a nap.

[Doc]

I'm not sure if it's the weather, we've had two 7 inch + snowstorms back to back go through with subzero temps . . .or if it's because I've been putting in so many hours . .but things are foggy today with me for some reason. 


I very much agree hell . .as we've been taught it to be, is not really what Scripture portrays it to be.  I do believe the lake of fire is God as Scripture states he is consuming fire.  But what is it that he's consuming?  People? I don't think so, I think his presence consumes carnality . .carnalism.  For me, hell is simply the grave . . .and those dead are thrown into the lake with death . . .which for me has to do with separation.  All things that are separated are once again brought back into "One". 

Maybe I need a nap.

I think that's a likely scenario on all counts, including the nap... :icon_jokercolor:

[legoman]

I'm not sure if it's the weather, we've had two 7 inch + snowstorms back to back go through with subzero temps . . .or if it's because I've been putting in so many hours . .but things are foggy today with me for some reason. 


I very much agree hell . .as we've been taught it to be, is not really what Scripture portrays it to be.  I do believe the lake of fire is God as Scripture states he is consuming fire.  But what is it that he's consuming?  People? I don't think so, I think his presence consumes carnality . .carnalism.  For me, hell is simply the grave . . .and those dead are thrown into the lake with death . . .which for me has to do with separation.  All things that are separated are once again brought back into "One". 

Maybe I need a nap.

Look at 1 Cor 3:12-15 again.  I believe the Lake of Fire will consume the same things.  Carnality as you said is one way of putting it.

Have a nice nap!

Legoman

[Sarah]

Lets look at verse 21.  What is it really saying?:  If you don't do the will of the father, you aren't getting into heaven.

Yes, it is saying that. But the Kingdom of Heaven has a different connotation to me that to you. It is place where God reigns. It is the city described in Revelations. It is a people on the earth. The lamb is their light, not the governments of the world; sun, moon. This is a city made up of those who have died in Christ and the living by faith. Outside the city are dogs, sorcerers, etc. Thank God the gates are always open.

My hope and belief is that the city is here now and is not future. When I feel alone in my purpose, I like to think there are more for me than against me.

What is the Lake of Fire?  How long does it last?  What is its purpose?

The Lake of Fire is a place where death is destroyed. The temple, its sacrificial systems, and trying to be holy through obeying a commandment written on a page and not of the heart is death....and God destroyed it and its messengers in the lake of Fire awhile ago. I believe this is testimony to what happens to us when we base our life on the 3 sins; lust of the eye, lust of the flesh, and pride of life. On that day when we see Him, we see the depth of our wasteful lives. Their will be great loss. Thank god that streams flow out of the city and trees with leaves for healing the nations. They come out of the city for our healing.

John the Baptist baptized with water, but Jesus baptized with fire. This is the power of God destroying the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life in my life. This power grants relationship. I have access to the city now and do not have to suffer great loss in the lake of fire, but can have life now.

[rosered]

John the Baptist baptized with water, but Jesus baptized with fire. This is the power of God destroying the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life in my life. This power grants relationship. I have access to the city now and do not have to suffer great loss in the lake of fire, but can have life now.

  Hi Sis Sarah ,
  This is how I am able to see it  too now   :thumbsup:

  :HeartThrob:

[Andromeda_Organa]

"I never knew you"

I am sure that  this word will be spoken to the following believers,
who are saying like this: :

"Lord, Lord, I am prophesying in your name that there will be no ET,
and all men will be saved eventually regardless of their faith."
"Lord, I pray for many people and they are being healed."

without doing the will of the Father.

What is the will of the Father?
If they do not  know what it is, then it is apparent they are not doing the will of the Father.
And they will be away from Jesus, according to the Scripture.

are you saying we're not Christians?

[Andromeda_Organa]

Andromeda, why take it as if he is pointing a finger or including you? He did present whats in scripture. Jesus said they would be prophesying in His name calling Him "Lord Lord" I dont know an athiest who does that do you?  :grin:

No, I don't. And sorry about taking it personally, I have Asperger's, so it's a problem of mine.

[Nathan]

I think many of us have been reborn all right . . .the problem is, we think we're reborn in the spirit when we're actually reborn in the mind . .which is to say our parents, which is those who led us to this rebirth, our parents were simply doing what they were created to do . .. reproduce after their own kind.  It's a hereditary thing we're born into.  My parents were born into a religious mindset, and they reproduced that which they were themselves.  Religion begats religious.  Religious then begats more religious who are just as bound to the religion as their parents.  But if you take that lineage all the way back, the father of us all . . .the father of all religious . . .is the mind of "man". 

Someone, somewhere WAY back at the beginning, where there were two specific trees . .one of freedom, the other of knowledge of boundaries . . .religion birthed.  It is the result of choosing the wrong tree.  Religion became the identity of man . .the "sweat of your face" which is a sign of labor.  Religion is simply gaining righteousness and acceptance through a works-based mind.

And that's who Jesus was addressing here.  When he stated he never knew them, their knee-jerk reaction was to fall back on their works . the things they "did".  They felt that their actions would speak of their status.  It's almost as if they believed they "deserved" to be with the 'in' crowd of Christ due to all the activities they'd been involved with.  But only the sword of of the Spirit has the ability to cut through all of that junk and get to the core of the matter. 

Yes, they did a lot of works . .but they had no intimacy.  And "that's" what "I never knew you" was all about . . .intimacy.  We have it in our heads that if we can cast out a demon or get someone to speak in tongues we, ourselves are now approved and accepted . . .when one has nothing to do with the other.  The truth be told, the gifts of the spirit are much like a loaded gun . . .just because you can shoot it, doesn't mean your a marksman. 

So many people have used the gifts of the spirit and have been more destructive with them then they have edifying.  For me, that's all that this is saying.  Your identity should never be in the gifts manifesting in you.  Your identity should be in the one your most intimate with.

[70sevens]

I wonder what the "intimacy" means.

Jesus is saying, "Do the will of my Father to enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Are "intimacy" and "the will of the Father" equivalent in meaning?


[Mt 7:21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[NinjaWizards777]

Right...there's just too many things that keep happening AFTER judgment...IMO, much more involved in God's Big Plan than mainstream's die, immediately heaven or hell forever.

this comes to my mind everyday, which is one of the reasons i havent passed ofer UR yet. because whehter ET is true or not(which I lean towards not) I think things arent as cut and dry as the church makes them out to be

[ScarletWren]

I think many of us have been reborn all right . . .the problem is, we think we're reborn in the spirit when we're actually reborn in the mind . .which is to say our parents, which is those who led us to this rebirth, our parents were simply doing what they were created to do . .. reproduce after their own kind.  It's a hereditary thing we're born into.  My parents were born into a religious mindset, and they reproduced that which they were themselves.  Religion begats religious.  Religious then begats more religious who are just as bound to the religion as their parents.  But if you take that lineage all the way back, the father of us all . . .the father of all religious . . .is the mind of "man". 

Someone, somewhere WAY back at the beginning, where there were two specific trees . .one of freedom, the other of knowledge of boundaries . . .religion birthed.  It is the result of choosing the wrong tree.  Religion became the identity of man . .the "sweat of your face" which is a sign of labor.  Religion is simply gaining righteousness and acceptance through a works-based mind.

And that's who Jesus was addressing here.  When he stated he never knew them, their knee-jerk reaction was to fall back on their works . the things they "did".  They felt that their actions would speak of their status.  It's almost as if they believed they "deserved" to be with the 'in' crowd of Christ due to all the activities they'd been involved with.  But only the sword of of the Spirit has the ability to cut through all of that junk and get to the core of the matter. 

Yes, they did a lot of works . .but they had no intimacy.  And "that's" what "I never knew you" was all about . . .intimacy.  We have it in our heads that if we can cast out a demon or get someone to speak in tongues we, ourselves are now approved and accepted . . .when one has nothing to do with the other.  The truth be told, the gifts of the spirit are much like a loaded gun . . .just because you can shoot it, doesn't mean your a marksman. 

So many people have used the gifts of the spirit and have been more destructive with them then they have edifying.  For me, that's all that this is saying.  Your identity should never be in the gifts manifesting in you.  Your identity should be in the one your most intimate with.

This was awesome, Nathan,

This is strange that you wrote this.  Just this morning I read this, by A. P.Adams:

Natural means pertaining to this fallen state, earthly, fleshly, corrupt.  Spiritual, being the opposite of natural means, pertaining to the restored (or resurrection) state, finished, perfect. Both words refer to human beings; they are never applied to spirit beings, to God, or angels, or demons. Now let us look at the Bible and we shall find these statements confirmed. On the word natural see Jas. III. 15 and Jude 19. In both of these passages the words  rendered "sensual" are the same in the original as the word rendered "natural" in 1 Cor. XV. 46. The context clearly shows that natural pertains to the fallen man as "earthly, sensual, devilish." The spiritual being the opposite of the natural and coming after it according to God's order, may now be readily identified; the natural. as we have seen, refers to the fallen, corruptible condition; the spiritual then must refer to the restored, incorruptible state; or in other words the natural refers to the process of creation, the spiritual to the finished result.  (Editor's Note: this finished result is the manifested purpose of God thru His Christ. For while Christ was on the cross God was in His Christ insuring the reconciliation of all mankind. It was purposed prior to the foundation of time and I dare say that nothing was going to, or would ever hinder God and the reconciliation of all. End of Note).

...

We have seen that "the natural man" is man in the rough, the mere animal man, who has received no spiritual development whatever. The terms natural and spiritual are mutually exclusive; one cannot be natural and spiritual at the same time. But one may be spiritual and carnal at the same time. Many Christians have some spiritual development, and yet the carnal, the fleshly, still predominates; they are, as Paul says, "babes in Christ;" not mature and advanced, but mere infants. We know that after the spiritual begins to be developed we are still in the flesh, and more or less fleshly. Says Paul, "The life that I now live in the flesh., (still in the flesh, but living a higher life), I live by the faith of the Son of God." Again we read, "The flesh lusteth against the spirit; and the spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary, the one to the other." If in this conflict between the flesh and the spirit the flesh predominates, we are babes in Christ and carnal. If the spirit is paramount then we may be called spiritual, as in 1 Cor. II. 15 and Gal. VI. I.
        Now read this third chapter of first Corinthians with this explanation in mind, and the carnal Christian will at once be apparent-- a perfect type of many a Christian in these days. The sectarian spirit is perhaps the most hateful manifestation of this carnality. "I am of Paul, I am of Apollos." So in these days we hear, "I am a Methodist to the back bone." "I am a Baptist dyed in the wool." "I am a Congregationalist true blue," and thus these infantile disciples go on in their clannish professions, little thinking that thus they are demonstrating their own carnality and spiritual babyhood. O Lord, help us to "crucify the flesh with its affections and lust" and "press on unto full growth." Heb. VI. 1, N. V., margin; read also the last four verses of the preceding chapter  from the New Version.

Not sure what the New Version is.  Adams lived in the late 1800's-early 1900's.

[claypot]

I think many of us have been reborn all right . . .the problem is, we think we're reborn in the spirit when we're actually reborn in the mind . .which is to say our parents, which is those who led us to this rebirth, our parents were simply doing what they were created to do . .. reproduce after their own kind.  It's a hereditary thing we're born into.  My parents were born into a religious mindset, and they reproduced that which they were themselves.  Religion begats religious.  Religious then begats more religious who are just as bound to the religion as their parents.  But if you take that lineage all the way back, the father of us all . . .the father of all religious . . .is the mind of "man". 

Someone, somewhere WAY back at the beginning, where there were two specific trees . .one of freedom, the other of knowledge of boundaries . . .religion birthed.  It is the result of choosing the wrong tree.  Religion became the identity of man . .the "sweat of your face" which is a sign of labor.  Religion is simply gaining righteousness and acceptance through a works-based mind.

And that's who Jesus was addressing here.  When he stated he never knew them, their knee-jerk reaction was to fall back on their works . the things they "did".  They felt that their actions would speak of their status.  It's almost as if they believed they "deserved" to be with the 'in' crowd of Christ due to all the activities they'd been involved with.  But only the sword of of the Spirit has the ability to cut through all of that junk and get to the core of the matter. 

Yes, they did a lot of works . .but they had no intimacy.  And "that's" what "I never knew you" was all about . . .intimacy.  We have it in our heads that if we can cast out a demon or get someone to speak in tongues we, ourselves are now approved and accepted . . .when one has nothing to do with the other.  The truth be told, the gifts of the spirit are much like a loaded gun . . .just because you can shoot it, doesn't mean your a marksman. 

So many people have used the gifts of the spirit and have been more destructive with them then they have edifying.  For me, that's all that this is saying.  Your identity should never be in the gifts manifesting in you.  Your identity should be in the one your most intimate with.

This was awesome, Nathan,

This is strange that you wrote this.  Just this morning I read this, by A. P.Adams:

Natural means pertaining to this fallen state, earthly, fleshly, corrupt.  Spiritual, being the opposite of natural means, pertaining to the restored (or resurrection) state, finished, perfect. Both words refer to human beings; they are never applied to spirit beings, to God, or angels, or demons. Now let us look at the Bible and we shall find these statements confirmed. On the word natural see Jas. III. 15 and Jude 19. In both of these passages the words  rendered "sensual" are the same in the original as the word rendered "natural" in 1 Cor. XV. 46. The context clearly shows that natural pertains to the fallen man as "earthly, sensual, devilish." The spiritual being the opposite of the natural and coming after it according to God's order, may now be readily identified; the natural. as we have seen, refers to the fallen, corruptible condition; the spiritual then must refer to the restored, incorruptible state; or in other words the natural refers to the process of creation, the spiritual to the finished result.  (Editor's Note: this finished result is the manifested purpose of God thru His Christ. For while Christ was on the cross God was in His Christ insuring the reconciliation of all mankind. It was purposed prior to the foundation of time and I dare say that nothing was going to, or would ever hinder God and the reconciliation of all. End of Note).

...

We have seen that "the natural man" is man in the rough, the mere animal man, who has received no spiritual development whatever. The terms natural and spiritual are mutually exclusive; one cannot be natural and spiritual at the same time. But one may be spiritual and carnal at the same time. Many Christians have some spiritual development, and yet the carnal, the fleshly, still predominates; they are, as Paul says, "babes in Christ;" not mature and advanced, but mere infants. We know that after the spiritual begins to be developed we are still in the flesh, and more or less fleshly. Says Paul, "The life that I now live in the flesh., (still in the flesh, but living a higher life), I live by the faith of the Son of God." Again we read, "The flesh lusteth against the spirit; and the spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary, the one to the other." If in this conflict between the flesh and the spirit the flesh predominates, we are babes in Christ and carnal. If the spirit is paramount then we may be called spiritual, as in 1 Cor. II. 15 and Gal. VI. I.
        Now read this third chapter of first Corinthians with this explanation in mind, and the carnal Christian will at once be apparent-- a perfect type of many a Christian in these days. The sectarian spirit is perhaps the most hateful manifestation of this carnality. "I am of Paul, I am of Apollos." So in these days we hear, "I am a Methodist to the back bone." "I am a Baptist dyed in the wool." "I am a Congregationalist true blue," and thus these infantile disciples go on in their clannish professions, little thinking that thus they are demonstrating their own carnality and spiritual babyhood. O Lord, help us to "crucify the flesh with its affections and lust" and "press on unto full growth." Heb. VI. 1, N. V., margin; read also the last four verses of the preceding chapter  from the New Version.

Not sure what the New Version is.  Adams lived in the late 1800's-early 1900's.

SW, You and Nathan have again spoken to my very essence and I have to thank you for doing so. I'm going to re-read both your posts now. Matter of fact, I may print them off and carry them with me today. Thanks again.

cp

[Sarah]

What is the will of the Father?

Mathew 7:
"12`All things, therefore, whatever ye may will that men may be doing to you, so also do to them, for this is the law and the prophets. "

Later He ties those who are lawless to those who do not know him.

23and then I will acknowledge to them, that -- I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.

Therefore the will of the Father is to know Him, and whoever knows Him fulfills His law, treating his neighbor as himself.

[claypot]

And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. rom12.2

I think this ties in nicely.

cp

[legoman]

What is the will of the Father?

1 Tim 2:
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Belief in ET would make God out to be confused.  Its God's will that all be saved, yet it is God's will that some not be saved.  Hmm...

Legoman