John 3:16

[NinjaWizards777]

I dont know if this has been adressed before, It probably has seeing as this is the verse about 75 percent of america proabbly has memorized. Anyway...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

Perish-
1.    to die or be destroyed through violence, privation, etc.: to perish in an earthquake.
2.    to pass away or disappear: an age of elegance that has forever perished.
3.    to suffer destruction or ruin: His valuable paintings perished in the fire.
4.    to suffer spiritual death: Save us, lest we perish.

The word perish seems to have some destructive and seemingly irrevokable meaning to it, and its used here by Jesus to define what will NOT happen to those who believe in Him...so we therefore must assume to not believe would mean to "perish", and its obvious hes not talking about our physcial bodies. This would seem to denote some ending through suffering for those who dont believe in Him.

Im intrested to hear what you think

[legoman]

It is interesting to look at the greek for the word perish.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish [apollymi], but have everlasting [eonian] life.


The greek word for perish here is "apollymi" and has meanings of perish, destroy or lose/lost.

Look at this verse:

Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost [apollymi].

Isn't that interesting... "perish" and "lost" is the same greek word.

It seems one can be saved from being "perished" or "apollymi".

We are all lost ("apollymi") at some point, but if we believe in Christ we will not be lost ("apollymi").  In fact Jesus mission was to seek and save what was lost ("apollymi").

Jesus will not fail his mission.  :bigGrin:
Legoman

PS You can verify the greek for yourself at blueletterbible.org or other similar sites.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I dont know if this has been adressed before, It probably has seeing as this is the verse about 75 percent of america proabbly has memorized. Anyway...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

Perish-
1.    to die or be destroyed through violence, privation, etc.: to perish in an earthquake.
2.    to pass away or disappear: an age of elegance that has forever perished.
3.    to suffer destruction or ruin: His valuable paintings perished in the fire.
4.    to suffer spiritual death: Save us, lest we perish.

The word perish seems to have some destructive and seemingly irrevokable meaning to it, and its used here by Jesus to define what will NOT happen to those who believe in Him...so we therefore must assume to not believe would mean to "perish", and its obvious hes not talking about our physcial bodies. This would seem to denote some ending through suffering for those who dont believe in Him.

Im intrested to hear what you think

When I was first introduced to the concept of universal salvation that was the first verse that come to mind, because I had been engrained with the idea that some people die without having expressed their acceptance of Christ so the concept had to be false based on John 3:16.

"Whosoever believeth"

Interestingly enough though over time I was drawn back to the concept and various articles that did not change John 3:16, it only changed my outlook upon how belief comes about.

So when I used that verse, the only perspective I was seeing was what I had been taught in christianity.  and that was  "You must choose to accept Christ on your own before you die or you go to hell forever"

I was not seeing the whole verse for what it meant concerning Gods sovereign will.

Now I see many verses in the bible as statements of facts of the kingdom.   It means that I do not need the idea that God just saved everyone no matter what, it means everyone will have the life in the kingdom because God will draw everyone to meet the criteria of salvation.

[MacPherson]

I dont know if this has been adressed before, It probably has seeing as this is the verse about 75 percent of america proabbly has memorized. Anyway...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

Perish-
1.    to die or be destroyed through violence, privation, etc.: to perish in an earthquake.
2.    to pass away or disappear: an age of elegance that has forever perished.
3.    to suffer destruction or ruin: His valuable paintings perished in the fire.
4.    to suffer spiritual death: Save us, lest we perish.

The word perish seems to have some destructive and seemingly irrevokable meaning to it, and its used here by Jesus to define what will NOT happen to those who believe in Him...so we therefore must assume to not believe would mean to "perish", and its obvious hes not talking about our physcial bodies. This would seem to denote some ending through suffering for those who dont believe in Him.

Im intrested to hear what you think

That's what got people like me believing in "conditional immortality".
But then if you read Rev. 14:9-12
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

You can't read "conditional immortality" or anything else than eternal conscious torment into that part of scripture reading it at face value.

[martincisneros]

This came up last June, so here's some additional comments on this passage:

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2793.0

I still stand behind my answer on the thread at the link above 'cause after I'd posted that, I got to thinking, this was Jesus's statement after the serpent on the pole passage from the Torah was brought up (John 3:14) and the serpent on the pole wasn't placed there to deal with anybody's "eternity," but to bring healing to their bodies.  This is another condemnation passage like 1Corinthians 11 where the context of the condemnation winds up being sickness, disease, and bodily death.

[claypot]

Hey NW,

I think of these words...... Speaking of the heavens which I like to think of as our minds....

They shall perish; but you continue: And they all shall become old as does a garment; And as a mantle you shall roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed heb 1.11

Do you see something mysterious here?

Jesus' words are spirit and must be interpreted spiritually.

Here's another.....

He that loses his life for my sake shall find it.mt10.39

'Loses' is the same word as destroy. Same idea Jesus is trying to convey as that in the Hebrew passage above.

Think spiritual, friend, think spiritual.

cp

[Pierac]

Add to the mix too that about 95% of all humanity has not had access to the scriptures through out the history of the World.

Joh 3:16  "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So if God so loved the world, then why have 95% of all humans that have ever lived not have access to His word? Maybe it should read...

"God so loved the few who have had access to His word that ..."   :mshock:

Paul

[YoungYuni]

I dont know if this has been adressed before, It probably has seeing as this is the verse about 75 percent of america proabbly has memorized. Anyway...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

Perish-
1.    to die or be destroyed through violence, privation, etc.: to perish in an earthquake.
2.    to pass away or disappear: an age of elegance that has forever perished.
3.    to suffer destruction or ruin: His valuable paintings perished in the fire.
4.    to suffer spiritual death: Save us, lest we perish.

The word perish seems to have some destructive and seemingly irrevokable meaning to it, and its used here by Jesus to define what will NOT happen to those who believe in Him...so we therefore must assume to not believe would mean to "perish", and its obvious hes not talking about our physcial bodies. This would seem to denote some ending through suffering for those who dont believe in Him.

Im intrested to hear what you think

Hiya!

I agree.

There are those who trust in the Lord who will not perish.

He is not talking about our physical bodies.

Many will suffer destruction needlessly because their mind is on the things of man.

Few will be saved such needless destruction because their ind is on the things of God.

Jesus promised that we who believe will not taste or see death, but those who do not believe will die in their sin.

John 8:23-26,51
23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."

25"Who are you?" they asked.

"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied.
26"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world."

51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

Jesus made it pretty clear!

:happygrin: :Sparkletooth: