The "second death" what exactly is it?

[Zeek]

Hi Willie,

I have tried to type my response 5 times, only to delete 5 times. 

I can only present what I see, but yet when I try to put it into my words; it doesn't flow. 

So, although I admit my view may be "incomplete", I refer you back to the scriptures i posted; as I when I posted them, they just flowed in an order that made sense to me.  I apologize if you want more from me, but I am unable at this time. 

 
Z

[YoungYuni]

Hello Zeek!

I wouldn't worry about it.

Some people see what they want and are unwilling to relinquish or suspend their beliefs to understand you.

That is their loss, not yours.

:2c:  :thumbsup:

P.S.

Jesus said some will not taste or experience death and since everyone experiences physical death (even Jesus), it therefore means Jesus was talking about Second Death.

John says there is sin that leads to death and sin that does not; since all physically die, including John, therefore John was talking about Second Death.

:winkgrin: :laughing7:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Bobf... :hithere:

GOD created the Earth and TIME and all that was IN them in 6 days... part of that process was the INSERTION of the TREE of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL...

It IS WRITTEN that Man ate from the TREE which GOD said would cause His DEATH in the DAY he did so... However, Adam lived till he was 930yrs old...

Which means that the Death which was "cast" into this lifetime [Lake of Fire=suffering/death] would cause (1) death in the spirit (by eating of the tree), which later caused (2) death of the flesh which was defiled.

DEATH and the GRAVE [hades] were cast INTO the Lake of FIRE and BRIMSTONE...

THIS LIFE, contains BOTH (death & the grave), ...DEATH which partners with the GRAVE, and both are experienced by ALL in ADAM... with--IN the REALM of TIME... BOTH shall occur to each human up to the LAST "DAY" (John 6:44) of this realm...

If the LOF = the second death = second physical death then

"death...was cast into the lake of fire"
means "death...was cast into the second death"

The 2nd DEATH... IS... DEATH (as an entity which removes LIFE) being cast into the Lake of FIRE... meaning that [ALL] DEATH takes place IN the LAKE of FIRE...

The 1st "DEATH" [spiritual] took place here, ...as Adam was told that he would DIE "in the DAY" he ate... He did NOT die physically, that came later (Gen 5:3)... but IN the DAY he ATE, he DIED spiritually -- even though he did not "know" it as death...

Because DEATH had been cast into [this] Lake of FIRE... it brought about the 1st DEATH which leads us on the journey to the 2nd DEATH, which ENDS our experience in this realm.

means "death...was cast into a second rendition of the first death"
means "physical death...was cast into itself"
which doesn't make much sense.

You do not see this, so you stumble over your own words Bob...

ALL DEATH = DEATH cast into the Lake of FIRE...

THIS LIFE is the LOF... which IS the 2nd DEATH that MEN are APPOINTED to DIE...  Flesh & Blood will NOT inherit the kingdom of GOD, so this FLESH must RETURN to DUST for it is DEFILED...

However... the DEATH which CHRIST died to REDEEM us from is the 1st DEATH which was the SIN that separated us from HOLINESS... and eventually leads to the PHYSICAL [2nd] DEATH which we DIE via divine appointment...

In hopes you might gain understanding, I offer the following understanding of Rev 21:14... (which GOD had revealed to me in my own personal study, prior to finding out that this had also occured to J. Preston Eby as well)

J. Preston Eby notes (and I agree with him) that a sentence in english, can state FACTS in reverse and NOT change the meaning of the sentence, ...but  when this is done, some are able to find clarity in the reversal which they did not in reading the sentence as written...

Something like this:

(1)  A body of Land surrounded by WATER is an ISLAND.
(2)  An ISLAND is a body of Land surrounded by WATER.

We inserted the word WATER 1st in the sentence in example one, ...and the word ISLAND 2nd.

In example #2, we reverse the positions of these two...

This does NOT at ALL, change the meaning...

Let us do this with Rev 21:14

(1) And DEATH and HADES were cast into the Lake of Fire, THIS is the Second Death.

(2) THIS is the 2nd DEATH, ...DEATH and HADES were cast into the Lake of Fire.

This makes the verse take on a different look, for it notes the same facts in reverse order without CHANGING the FACTS... 

The 2nd DEATH is the result of the 1st DEATH... the NATURAL caused DEATH in the SPIRITUAL first... then proceeded to cause DEATH in the NATURAL... we are NOT redeemed from the 2nd DEATH... we are redeemed from the 1st DEATH for we are SPIRITUAL CHILDREN of YHVH...

Each must find 2 experiences in DEATH:

(1) 1st Death/SPIRITUAL -- Life (1st) removed Spiritually in the DAY of EATING of DISOBEDIENCE -- CHRIST the OBEDIENT, died to redeem/vessel of honor...

(2) 2nd Death/FLESH -- Life (2nd) removed Physically -- we DIE... in the flesh -- NOT redeemed/vessel of dishonor

Don't know how else to explain it bro... either you will see it, or you wont...  :thumbsup:

No sweat  :sweat: ...either way!  :HeartThrob:

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...

:icon_flower: :icon_flower:  willieH   :icon_flower:  :icon_flower:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Zeek... :hithere:

No matter what anyone might suggest that I wont relinquish or suspend my beliefs to understand what you say (Why would I do that?  :rolleye:)...

We each are on our own pathway... and on those individual pathways, GOD is teaching us in varying agendas according to His working of ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL (not ours)...

So thanks for your words, maybe we'll connect in this area later, bro...  :thumbsup:

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...

:icon_flower: :icon_flower:  willieH   :icon_flower:  :icon_flower:

[YoungYuni]

un⋅der⋅stand⋅ing
   /ˌʌndərˈstændɪŋ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uhn-der-stan-ding] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.    mental process of a person who comprehends; comprehension; personal interpretation: My understanding of the word does not agree with yours.
2.    intellectual faculties; intelligence; mind: a quick understanding.
3.    superior power of discernment; enlightened intelligence: With her keen understanding she should have become a leader.
4.    knowledge of or familiarity with a particular thing; skill in dealing with or handling something: an understanding of accounting practice.
5.    a state of cooperative or mutually tolerant relations between people: To him, understanding and goodwill were the supreme virtues.
6.    a mutual agreement, esp. of a private, unannounced, or tacit kind: They had an understanding about who would do the dishes.
7.    an agreement regulating joint activity or settling differences, often informal or preliminary in character: After hours of negotiation, no understanding on a new contract was reached.
8.    Philosophy.
a.    the power of abstract thought; logical power.
b.    Kantianism. the mental faculty resolving the sensory manifold into the transcendental unity of apperception.
–adjective
9.    characterized by understanding; prompted by, based on, or demonstrating comprehension, intelligence, discernment, empathy, or the like: an understanding attitude.

[rosered]

 

  Hi Young yuni ,
  you sure do remind me of Craig   is he realted to you by chance ? :dontknow:
  He is not  been around lately   ,and  we miss him alot
  but we got you now  :icon_flower:   God bless ya  :HeartThrob:

[YoungYuni]

Hiya Rosered!

He the one who invited his facebook group to a number of websites and forums a few weeks ago, including this one.

(Since people been putting up some anti-Universalism or hell facebook links people can join this one!)

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=2273280062

So I guess he can be found somewhere if he isn't here anymore.

Did you try emailing him?

:cloud9:  :gangel:

[rosered]

Hiya Rosered!

He the one who invited his facebook group to a number of websites and forums a few weeks ago, including this one.

(Since people been putting up some anti-Universalism or hell facebook links people can join this one!)

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=2273280062

So I guess he can be found somewhere if he isn't here anymore.

Did you try emailing him?

:cloud9:  :gangel:

Hi Young Yuni ,
I have not seen him since His  You-Tube  video .
  I have not e-mailed him ,
  I do not know if he would want me too ? 
I dont have facebook  , my daugther who is 20  has  facebook ,
  she told me I am to old for that stuff ? go figure  :mblush:

  well  I am glad you joined the TentMaker  forum .
  I  desire Craig to find peace and Joy in the Lord where the Holy Spirit sends him
  He has blessed me along the  way  and will always be considered a brother  in the Lord  Jesus  Christ .
   God  bless you as well  .. Rose  :HeartThrob:

[Chris]

you and i are on different pages when it comes to "physical, bodily" death.  I don't think that physical death has anything to do with second death or "first death" or any scriptures regarding those deaths,

other than physical things reflecting/symbolizing the spiritual. 

Im struggling a wee bit to put this into words
In that the First Death is Christ ,Tasting Death for ALL men( as all men being DEAD to HIM) , the 2nd Death if you will bearing witness to the First death  is   the Death of death  itself...

:icon_flower:

Hey G!

Mind explaining what you mean by "the First Death is Christ ,Tasting Death for ALL men"? I'm not sure I am understanding what you mean??  :mblush:

To me, being that there are TWO ADAMS/MEN (the FIRST and the LAST, also called THE SECOND MAN) that ALL MEN are "summed up" into, there are TWO DEATHS that ALL MEN are baptized into.... The FIRST being that DEATH which is the penalty FOR SIN (wrought through the FIRST ADAM) and the SECOND being that DEATH OF DEATH (LIFE) that all men have also been baptized into.... the DEATH of THE SECOND MAN (LAST ADAM) Jesus Christ, which is (to me), THE SECOND DEATH.

So what is the second death, as it relates to the death of Jesus Christ and the death of death?

We know that death and hell give up the dead that in them and they are cast INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. And we know that those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. Right?

When did that happen if not at the death of Jesus Christ (the SECOND MAN) on the cross?

Christ said: "I am come to send fire on the earth" (Luke 12:49)

And in the book of Hebrews we read:

Heb 9:24-28  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, **BUT AFTER THIS** THE JUDGMENT: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


How many times have I heard people quote "it is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgment" to say that it is not until after men die (physically) that judgment comes. But is that what this passage is talking about? Or it is talking about THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST, specifically? Who came ONCE TO DIE (as it is appointed unto men) and ***AFTER THIS*** THE JUDGMENT?

So that ***NOW*** is THE JUDGMENT of this world and ***NOW*** is the day of salvation?  :icon_flower:

Having been baptized into HIS DEATH we must strive, as did Paul, TO KNOW the power OF HIS RESURRECTION!!  :cloud9:


Rom 6:3-8  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:


IT IS FINISHED!! We simply need to come to the REALIZATION that we HAVE BEEN reconciled unto God and are even now NEW CREATURES.... ONE NEW MAN creating IN CHRIST JESUS.  :dsunny:

Any thoughts???

[Zeek]

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have [already] hold fast till I come.

Jhn 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

[Taffy]

you and i are on different pages when it comes to "physical, bodily" death.  I don't think that physical death has anything to do with second death or "first death" or any scriptures regarding those deaths,

other than physical things reflecting/symbolizing the spiritual. 

Im struggling a wee bit to put this into words
In that the First Death is Christ ,Tasting Death for ALL men( as all men being DEAD to HIM) , the 2nd Death if you will bearing witness to the First death  is   the Death of death  itself...

:icon_flower:

Hey G!

Mind explaining what you mean by "the First Death is Christ ,Tasting Death for ALL men"? I'm not sure I am understanding what you mean??  :mblush:

To me, being that there are TWO ADAMS/MEN (the FIRST and the LAST, also called THE SECOND MAN) that ALL MEN are "summed up" into, there are TWO DEATHS that ALL MEN are baptized into.... The FIRST being that DEATH which is the penalty FOR SIN (wrought through the FIRST ADAM) and the SECOND being that DEATH OF DEATH (LIFE) that all men have also been baptized into.... the DEATH of THE SECOND MAN (LAST ADAM) Jesus Christ, which is (to me), THE SECOND DEATH.

So what is the second death, as it relates to the death of Jesus Christ and the death of death?

We know that death and hell give up the dead that in them and they are cast INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. And we know that those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. Right?

When did that happen if not at the death of Jesus Christ (the SECOND MAN) on the cross?

Christ said: "I am come to send fire on the earth" (Luke 12:49)

And in the book of Hebrews we read:

Heb 9:24-28  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, **BUT AFTER THIS** THE JUDGMENT: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


How many times have I heard people quote "it is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgment" to say that it is not until after men die (physically) that judgment comes. But is that what this passage is talking about? Or it is talking about THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST, specifically? Who came ONCE TO DIE (as it is appointed unto men) and ***AFTER THIS*** THE JUDGMENT?

So that ***NOW*** is THE JUDGMENT of this world and ***NOW*** is the day of salvation?  :icon_flower:

Having been baptized into HIS DEATH we must strive, as did Paul, TO KNOW the power OF HIS RESURRECTION!!  :cloud9:


Rom 6:3-8  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:


IT IS FINISHED!! We simply need to come to the REALIZATION that we HAVE BEEN reconciled unto God and are even now NEW CREATURES.... ONE NEW MAN creating IN CHRIST JESUS.  :dsunny:

Any thoughts???

Hey Chrissie :icon_flower:

Like I mentioned, i was Kinda struggling...,

Ive sorta bounced bewtween two concepts for a while,...

but after you put it so Plainly ,  :icon_flower:

To me, being that there are TWO ADAMS/MEN (the FIRST and the LAST, also called THE SECOND MAN) that ALL MEN are "summed up" into, there are TWO DEATHS that ALL MEN are baptized into.... The FIRST being that DEATH which is the penalty FOR SIN (wrought through the FIRST ADAM) and the SECOND being that DEATH OF DEATH (LIFE) that all men have also been baptized into.... the DEATH of THE SECOND MAN (LAST ADAM) Jesus Christ, which is (to me), THE SECOND DEATH.

:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

[Zeek]

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

sheep:  Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.



goats: 

Joh 8:21  Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

[Chris]

you and i are on different pages when it comes to "physical, bodily" death.  I don't think that physical death has anything to do with second death or "first death" or any scriptures regarding those deaths,

other than physical things reflecting/symbolizing the spiritual. 

Im struggling a wee bit to put this into words
In that the First Death is Christ ,Tasting Death for ALL men( as all men being DEAD to HIM) , the 2nd Death if you will bearing witness to the First death  is   the Death of death  itself...

:icon_flower:

Hey G!

Mind explaining what you mean by "the First Death is Christ ,Tasting Death for ALL men"? I'm not sure I am understanding what you mean??  :mblush:

To me, being that there are TWO ADAMS/MEN (the FIRST and the LAST, also called THE SECOND MAN) that ALL MEN are "summed up" into, there are TWO DEATHS that ALL MEN are baptized into.... The FIRST being that DEATH which is the penalty FOR SIN (wrought through the FIRST ADAM) and the SECOND being that DEATH OF DEATH (LIFE) that all men have also been baptized into.... the DEATH of THE SECOND MAN (LAST ADAM) Jesus Christ, which is (to me), THE SECOND DEATH.

So what is the second death, as it relates to the death of Jesus Christ and the death of death?

We know that death and hell give up the dead that in them and they are cast INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. And we know that those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. Right?

When did that happen if not at the death of Jesus Christ (the SECOND MAN) on the cross?

Christ said: "I am come to send fire on the earth" (Luke 12:49)

And in the book of Hebrews we read:

Heb 9:24-28  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, **BUT AFTER THIS** THE JUDGMENT: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


How many times have I heard people quote "it is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgment" to say that it is not until after men die (physically) that judgment comes. But is that what this passage is talking about? Or it is talking about THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST, specifically? Who came ONCE TO DIE (as it is appointed unto men) and ***AFTER THIS*** THE JUDGMENT?

So that ***NOW*** is THE JUDGMENT of this world and ***NOW*** is the day of salvation?  :icon_flower:

Having been baptized into HIS DEATH we must strive, as did Paul, TO KNOW the power OF HIS RESURRECTION!!  :cloud9:


Rom 6:3-8  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:


IT IS FINISHED!! We simply need to come to the REALIZATION that we HAVE BEEN reconciled unto God and are even now NEW CREATURES.... ONE NEW MAN creating IN CHRIST JESUS.  :dsunny:

Any thoughts???

Hey Chrissie :icon_flower:

Like I mentioned, i was Kinda struggling...,

Ive sorta bounced bewtween two concepts for a while,...

but after you put it so Plainly ,  :icon_flower:

To me, being that there are TWO ADAMS/MEN (the FIRST and the LAST, also called THE SECOND MAN) that ALL MEN are "summed up" into, there are TWO DEATHS that ALL MEN are baptized into.... The FIRST being that DEATH which is the penalty FOR SIN (wrought through the FIRST ADAM) and the SECOND being that DEATH OF DEATH (LIFE) that all men have also been baptized into.... the DEATH of THE SECOND MAN (LAST ADAM) Jesus Christ, which is (to me), THE SECOND DEATH.

:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

Some time back Kim sent me some things that she had put together connecting the second death and the first resurrection. Wonder if she can add that here?? (HINT HINT  :laughing7:)

Though Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were cast into the furnace BOUND, they were seen walking LOOSE in the fire.... because there was A FOURTH MAN in the fire, one like unto THE SON OF GOD.  :boogie: so THEY HAD NO HURT!!!  :gthumbsup:  (though they were indeed cast into the furnace).


Kim showed the connections beautifully!!  :thumbsup: Though I think it was an "unfinished" study at the time.... and she may not have ever gotten around to finishing it.  :laughing7:


OOOOOOHHHHH KIMMY!!!!!!!! Have anything to ADD??? :happygrin:

[Taffy]

OOOOOOHHHHH KIMMY!!!!!!!! Have anything to ADD??? :happygrin:

Whos Kim :icon_flower: :Sparkletooth:

[Zeek]

Though Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were cast into the furnace BOUND, they were seen walking LOOSE in the fire.... because there was A FOURTH MAN in the fire, one like unto THE SON OF GOD.  :boogie: so THEY HAD NO HURT!!!  :gthumbsup:  (though they were indeed cast into the furnace).

Mat 5:45  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Gen 7:6  And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

Gen 7:7  And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.



Gen 7:11 In the year 600 of Noah's life, in the seventeenth day of the second month, that same day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up and burst forth, and the windows and floodgates of the heavens were opened.


Gen 7:13 On the very same day Noah and Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife and the three wives of his sons with them, went into the ark,

Gen 7:17 The flood [that is, the downpour of rain] was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased and bore up the ark, and it was lifted [high] above the land.

Gen 7:18 And the waters became mighty and increased greatly upon the land, and the ark went [gently floating] upon the surface of the waters.


Gen 7:21 And all flesh ceased to breathe that moved upon the earth--fowls and birds, [tame] animals, [wild] beasts, all swarming and creeping things that swarm and creep upon the land, and all mankind.

interestingly, Noah was not flesh, he did not cease to breathe

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Gen 7:22 Everything on the dry land in whose nostrils were the breath and spirit of life died.

Gen 7:23 God destroyed (blotted out) every living thing that was upon the face of the earth; man and animals and the creeping things and the birds of the heavens were destroyed (blotted out) from the land. Only Noah remained alive, and those who were with him in the ark.(5)

Rev 2:11  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

[Zeek]

Psa 25:20  O keep my soul, and deliver me: let me not be ashamed; for I put my trust in thee.

Rom 9:33  As it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stumblingstone and rock of offense: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:11  For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1Jn 2:28  And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.


second death imo, is process of being "shamed", dying in your sins (ashamed).


Isa 66:5  Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

Mar 8:38  Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. [/color]

[Chris]

OOOOOOHHHHH KIMMY!!!!!!!! Have anything to ADD???

Oh your soooo weird, you did that on purpose  :grin:

Ya freak :grin:

Cant I just give them to you to rewrite like we did in the olden days? I cant put stuff into words like you can. I can copy paste sections but I betcha if I just give them to you, you can put them together more orderly, are you busy?   :grin:

Too busy for YOU??? Neeeeeeeeevveer!!  :happygrin:

[Chris]

Zeek,

It's not that I am ignoring you, I just have no idea whether you are agreeing or disagreeing, bro?  :grin:

[Zeek]

Zeek,

It's not that I am ignoring you, I just have no idea whether you are agreeing or disagreeing, bro?  :grin:

no biggie Chrissie,

i'm not sure if i agree or disagree either.   :bigGrin:


but I do think this verse is relevant re:

appointed once to die:


2Co 5:14  For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:


2Co 5:15  And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

but if they refuse to "live"

second death awaits, dieing in their sin. 

1Co 4:5  Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

[Chris]

Hey Zeek,

But they are already "dead" in their sins, right? And what about being "twice dead"?  :grin:

[Taffy]

Hey Zeek,

But they are already "dead" in their sins, right? And what about being "twice dead"?  :grin:

Dead after the FLESH and Dead after the Spirit :icon_flower:

[Chris]

Hey Zeek,

But they are already "dead" in their sins, right? And what about being "twice dead"?  :grin:

Dead after the FLESH and Dead after the Spirit :icon_flower:

Twice dead, plucked up by the roots.... Is that the flesh or the spirit?  :happy3:

I sort of see it connected to those who sleep in Christ. If one died for all then were ALL DEAD.... but even now (after having been reconciled to God through Christ by being baptized into THE SECOND DEATH (the death of Christ) :winkgrin: ) some STILL SLEEP.... being twice dead???  :mshock:

Tell me what you see, as it relates to the flesh and the spirit??   :ty:

[Chris]

OOOOOOHHHHH KIMMY!!!!!!!! Have anything to ADD???

Oh your soooo weird, you did that on purpose  :grin:

Ya freak :grin:

Cant I just give them to you to rewrite like we did in the olden days? I cant put stuff into words like you can. I can copy paste sections but I betcha if I just give them to you, you can put them together more orderly, are you busy?   :grin:

Too busy for YOU??? Neeeeeeeeevveer!!  :happygrin:

I'll send it to you PM (Just one of them) delete personal stuff and remove what doesnt apply etc ok?  :grin: I cant post things in good order Im so bad at it. HELP?  :grin:

You know ALL LIARS will have their part in the lake of fire, right??  :laughing7:

[Chris]

OK, GOT IT!!

For me it is JUST FINE and could be posted just as it is.... but I will look at it and see if there is anything else that could be added to make it any clearer, etc. So don't be looking for me to post it in the next 5 or 10 minutes, unless you want to see it just as I GOT IT.  :grin:

[Zeek]

the more I think about it, I think this might be "first death",

Rom 7:5  For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

2Co 3:7  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:



and

Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;(second death) but is passed from death unto life.


but if we hold the truth in unrighteousness, wrath awaits us (second death)

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 1:19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.

and they would be twice dead.  



I think Chrissie this is the same thing u were saying re: those who continue to sleep??


1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,