new earth?

[Andromeda_Organa]

what does this mean?  WHat happens?  I've never understood why we need a new earth if everyone is reconciled to God in paradise.

[sven]

the new earth might be the paradise, i´ve read something very interesting from one of the concordant puphlishers.

they believe there have been a "world-oder" that have been gone - this was the first heaven, now this earth and this heaven, is the second heaven, the third heaven that Paul mentions where someone was in paradise is the future heaven of the new earth, and the new earth will be paradise, its interesting, but im not sure if this interpretation is right.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: There are different layers of understanding in the Word.

Earth/earthen vessels, NEW earth/glorified bodies.
1st Heaven/realm of spirit/carnal mind, NEW heaven/mind of Christ.

Behold, all things are become new.......Blessings.....

[CHB]

what does this mean?  WHat happens?  I've never understood why we need a new earth if everyone is reconciled to God in paradise.

I don't think it means a different earth, just a changed earth.

CHB

[martincisneros]

2Peter 3 likens the Lake of Fire to Noah's Flood in saying that the present world order is going to go up in smoke.  Not sure what kind of smoke: camels, marlborough, herbal, illegal herbal, or what kind of smoke.  But basically, the sufferings that have come into the world -- or the higher degree of suffering that has come into the world -- through the earth we've had since Noah's Flood introduced so much more corruption.  After that destruction by fire the Bible says in Isaiah that people's lifespans will be back up to the level of trees where they'll live for centuries again.  In other words, the chemical processes of the earth, of the kind of crops that the earth will produce, and everything else will be brought into proper balance. 

The first metal mentioned in the Bible is gold.  The last metal mentioned in the Bible is gold.  Out of the fires we've got a gold city being built or "descending from heaven."  Things will be as God intended prior to Noah's Flood from that point forward, until Christ abdicates in 1Corinthians 15:24,28.  And then after God is all in all, then we'll be back in the Garden of Eden type of situation without the possibility of anyone messing up. 

It's a part of gradual restoration through the laws of sowing and reaping that God has exercised since before the beginning of time.  It's progressive.  Isaiah makes it clear that after the earth is baptized in fire in Revelation 20 and in 2Peter 3 in every way that it has not yet thus far been baptized in fire, then we'll be in a preflood world.  And then when Christ needs no longer reign because of every enemy having been subdued and reconciled, then we'll be in the Garden again fully clothed in God's glory with Father God walking with each of us in the cool of the day.

[jabcat]

Can anyone really explain this?  (I know "answers", I've read scripture, Eby's ideas, Thomas Kissinger, etc....but what are your own thoughts?) 

Why do you suppose we weren't just made perfect rather than go through this process of refinement?

Why do you suppose there needs to be water and fire bringing in new ages, heavens and earths?  God could snap His fingers and things could instantly exist any way He wanted them.

[martincisneros]

We chose the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden and God won't fully annul that covenant with death and Hell until 1Corinthians 15:28, although it's power was limited at the Cross and will be limited again in the Book of Revelation coming into literal fulfillment.  Romans 8 speaks of Christ having cast us all into futility after His resurrection by not having already brought us all of the way through because He wants us to develop the spiritual mind with the life and peace of the Scriptures and of Holy Spirit.  The futility we were cast into was a hope filled one rather than a sin filled one.  You can't confuse the two castings into futility with one another.  One was when sin entered into the world.  The other one was when righteousness entered into the world and came upon all men.  So, that's the short answer, that He'd violate not only His covenant and Christ's decision after His resurrection, but the Covenant we made eons ago to progress through the eons in this way.  Any time food or the implication of food comes up in Scripture, then you're dealing with covenantal issues.  And Christ's decision was based upon people not having understood the loaves.  But I'll sincerely lose everyone if I go any further on this.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well Jabcat, I'll tell you what He told me. It was actually a revelation of a dream in part. We were lowered into the bondage of corruption NOT WILLINGLY, that through the PERSONAL knowledge of the Son's outward demonstration, we might partake of His love and WILLINGLY lay down our lives, as He laid down His for us. How can you experience the choice of that kind of love if you've never (because of being with Him beforehand from the foundation of the world) known the opposite? Blessings....

[jabcat]

the Covenant we made eons ago to progress through the eons in this way. 

Who would you say the "we" is in this scenario, Martin?

And Card, if it's "willingly", out of love, gratefullness/relationship, etc., where do you (or anyone) think the LoF enters in?  Creating the circumstances/putting folks in a situation to where the only choice that makes sense is to choose Life?  Not forced, but God arranging the circumstances?

And I may back out a little and let others explore this...thanks!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The word lake there comes from a root word meaning haven, or harbor, both of which are "safe places". Our God is a consuming fire, and He makes His ministers to be FLAMES of fire. Ministers is not in thought here as we think of ministers (like pastors, ect.), for truly He would that all would be priests (ie. those who minister).

People are as waters, so if you have a whole bunch of waters together, waters who just happen to have been consumed by His fire (fire here is actually water, it's just "higher" water, LOL, as in the waters ABOVE the firmament), then you have a "lake" (MANY FLAMES) of fire.
Blessings....

PS. I guess I should have added He showed me His love is as lava. When we are consumed by the fire of His Spirit (and His Spirit is love), the elemental things melt (elemental principles, which are as the law/rock) and lava flows downward from it's source. It becomes the scourge that heals anything that it touches.

[martincisneros]

Who would you say the "we" is in this scenario, Martin?

The same "we" that were in the Garden of Eden in Adam in the same way that Levi was in Abraham when Abraham received the light of Luke 15 and of being heir of all things when Abraham was with Melchezedec.  As Levi was present in Abraham as Abraham was with Shem in inheriting the blessing that Shem had been steward of all of this time since after Noah's Ark, we likewise were in Adam and Eve in the Garden according to Romans 5, 1Corinthians 15, and Colossians 1, although John 1 and Colossians 1 pulls a fast one in saying that we were all in Christ before we were ever in Adam:-)  But Adam messed up rather than Christ, so from Adam onwards the chain of innocent humanity was broken. 

Romans 5 says that sin entered into the world and death by sin and so death passed upon all men for all have sinned.  That passage in Romans 5 isn't talking about sins pertaining to these lives we've lived prior to coming to Christ.  [Good people in this life still croak, even if they live sinless lives, which is entirely possible though greatly improbable without Christ Jesus.  It does happen sometimes, though.]  Romans 5 is indicting us as having been in the Garden in the way that the Scriptures say that Levi likewise received the light on the tenth when Abraham was offering it to Shem and being called possessor of heaven and earth.

[jabcat]

OK, I see what you're saying there...I also like the part of us being in Christ before the foundation...ties into that "pre-existence" thread we had (which I believe in)... :thumbsup:

[Molly]

We chose the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden and God won't fully annul that covenant with death and Hell until 1Corinthians 15:28, although it's power was limited at the Cross and will be limited again in the Book of Revelation coming into literal fulfillment.  Romans 8 speaks of Christ having cast us all into futility after His resurrection by not having already brought us all of the way through because He wants us to develop the spiritual mind with the life and peace of the Scriptures and of Holy Spirit.  The futility we were cast into was a hope filled one rather than a sin filled one.  You can't confuse the two castings into futility with one another.  One was when sin entered into the world.  The other one was when righteousness entered into the world and came upon all men.  So, that's the short answer, that He'd violate not only His covenant and Christ's decision after His resurrection, but the Covenant we made eons ago to progress through the eons in this way.  Any time food or the implication of food comes up in Scripture, then you're dealing with covenantal issues.  And Christ's decision was based upon people not having understood the loaves.  But I'll sincerely lose everyone if I go any further on this.

well, I didn't understand much of that lol, but I've been wondering about this covenant with death.  I had been thinking it was the covenant they made at sinai to keep the law.

Moses, that is what you must tell the Israelites.

    7After Moses went back, he reported to the leaders what the LORD had said, 8and they promised, " We will do everything the LORD has commanded." So Moses told the LORD about this.


--Ex 19

So you are saying that Eve entered into a covenant with satan in the garden?  How could that be if she was deceived?  That would be a fraudulent contract.   Then was it Adam who entered into the covenant?  What makes you call it a covenant--because he says eat this and you will be like gods?

[martincisneros]

Hi Molly,

Before I say more, see if Isaiah chapters 24 through 28 are helpful for you, remembering the place of wine in covenants.