The Christian Bible..."Hard Sayings", Things That Make You Say "Hmmmmm"

[jabcat]

I've been reading "The Christian Bible" quite a bit lately.  It's very literal and based on the common (Koine) Greek that was the language of the people, and the language the original manuscripts were supposedly written in.  I can't swear to its total accuracy, I'm no scholar, but it really brings out some things to me that hit me...really some food for thought, and I believe, for discussion.  I'd say it's far more detailed and accurate than a "common language" Bible such as The Message, which I generally think is watered down and I personally don't trust its accuracy to bring out many important "small" details.

The Christian Bible is a bit obscure, most probably haven't ever read it, and I thought I'd list some things as I go that really jump out at me...whether it's because of its truth, pertinence, or even its variance from our usual perspective of scripture. 

Sometimes I'll comment, and I really would like to stimulate thought for you as I share this with you.  God's blessing, and chime in...enjoy, be blessed and challenged.  James.


P.S., Disclaimer;  THIS IS NOT A FREE-WILL/SOVEREIGNTY THREAD, PLEASE LET'S DON'T GO THERE  :happy3:.  THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A  BALANCE, GOD DOES WANT US TO SEEK HIM, BE OBEDIENT, ETC., SO THIS ISN'T THE POINT OF THIS THREAD...THIS PARTICULAR SCRIPTURE IS JUST THE FIRST ONE I CAME TO TODAY..THERE'LL BE MANY OTHERS ON MANY TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION.

[jabcat]

John 6:64-65; ..there are some of you who don't believe...For this reason I have declared to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted to him by the Father.

To me, this connects to a recent discussion wrt Jesus' use of parables so everyone could understand, etc.....I just don't see it that way.  I don't have the total explanation/revelation for it, but I believe God reveals His truths when and to whom He pleases, and as it fits His overall plan...while at the same time, requiring us to seek out matters, study to show ourselves approved, walk in the light as He is in the light, present our bodies as a living sacrifice, etc...Some were apparently given the gift to see, some not...AT THAT TIME...not that they will never see. 

Thomas Kissinger writes in his Noble Berean and The Glory of God and The Honor of Kings books, it is God's glory to conceal a matter, reveal it as He chooses, including to those who are "seeking out a matter".  And apparently, as stated above, some are granted belief (in this age), and others are not.  The good news IMO about that is below;

John 6:43,44;  ...You must not be grumbling with one another!  No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me, draws him;  and I will raise him up on the Last Day [the Day of the Last Age].  It has been written in the Prophets, "and they will all be taught by God  :notworthy:  [Isa. 54:13].  www.christianbiblesociety.org.


God's blessing, James.

[B_T]

Does this new bible contain the teaching of ET?

[jabcat]

Does this new bible contain the teaching of ET?

No, it doesn't.  It translates many of the "bible threatenings" as "destruction/destruction in the Last Age/destruction in the symbolic Lake of Fire", etc., which I personally believe fits quite well with UR.  It's not overtly advertised as UR friendly, or friendly anything for that matter, other than literal and accurate...then the chips fall where they may.  I'm not saying there's absolutely no bias or interpretation....without an absolute divine miracle, I believe that would be impossible.  However, reportedly the translators have striven to absolutely just translate, even if it went against their own prior belief systems.  In fact, all of them were dramatically changed during translation...apparently none of them maintained their old affiliations (denominational) etc., when they saw what scripture was actually saying.

God's blessing, James.

[B_T]

Actually, the jewish bibles contained the following subject: A new messiah will come and will save the jewish nation from the Roman empire.

But they were wrong.

That's why I think that even if a modern bible contains the subject of hell, most people may be wrong.

[rosered]

  Hi Jabcat , Bro James
  I  have so many bibles its not funny lol ,   plus the on line  gateway   multi translations   they are awesome to  compare ..
   and Honestly , I am  not afraid to read any of them now , I went through a fearful time  when I refused any other bible than the KJV  lol

  and than I got a NASB  Hebrew abd Greek study Bible  ,    done alot of study personal with that
  but for the biggest part , I  can enjoy  all of them now without feeling threatened  or influenced by them , i could never do that before !
  I cannot  read  actual  greek or Hebrew  or even other languages  , so any one who can do that   , I say KUDOS  to them  :thumbsup:

  they dont have the Christian bible on Gateway yet !  maybe some day soon  God willing

  God love ya  :HeartThrob:

[B_T]

I still have fear and I downloaded some versions from Gary's page: "Bibles that don't teach eternal torment".

Call me I'm too sensitive, but I really needed this - though it's not in my mother tongue - Bulgarian.

[jabcat]

Very good, I'm glad you did that...God loves you, you are His child, and He only wants what's best for you...and He know what that is.  God's blessing, James. 

BTW, The CB was published in 1991...it's been around awhile, they're just not a wealthy, big business, high-profile publishing house with all the advertising and connections...

[rosered]

I still have fear and I downloaded some versions from Gary's page: "Bibles that don't teach eternal torment".

Call me I'm too sensitive, but I really needed this - though it's not in my mother tongue - Bulgarian.

  Wow! ,  you are doing well than  BT to be able to translate  and  understand  and comprehend    what you are able to read  , I  hope that the Holy Spirit is teaching us all , and   we do become   complete in Love , not so much the knowledge   , but the Knowledge of God and His Son ,  that being most important to me  me now , more than   words and ideas 
I  dont have an opinion  like i used to  ,  I have learned that the Spirit of God can get us though anything  if we can just learn to trust Him more than our  thoughts and processes 
  God does not Change   ,  God changes us  :thumbsup:
 

[jabcat]

John 3:3...whoever hasn't been born from above, can't notice God's kingdom...5  whoever isn't born of water and the Spirit, can't enter into God's Kingdom..7.. you have to be born from above..

13 Now no one has ascended into heaven, except the One who descended out of heaven, the Son of Humanity...

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave the only Son born to Him, so that whoever is continually believing in Him, shall not be destroyed [in the Fiery Destruction of the Second Death], but shall be having Life in the Last Age...so that the world might be saved [from Destruction through Him]

John 4:23....for an hour is going to come, and now is, when the true worshiper will worship the Father with their spirits [not just in some place] and with the Truth [not just in any manner]."  for the Father is also seeking such as these to be continually worshiping Him...God is a spirit...  The Christian Bible


"Born from above" = born again?  There's some arguing over this, i.e., all are already saved vs. a specific time when God gives faith to believe and the personal relationship begins...I personally believe the latter...partly based on the above scriptures, partly from personal experience...a very real, tangible experience of God's convicting and drawing me to His side...praise belongs to Him...nothing of my works, goodness, or ability...His mercy.

[jabcat]

From the Introduction to The Christian Bible; "The Greek word "ekklesia" literally means a "group-of OUT-CALLed-ones", or a "group of persons who have been called or invited".  Christians are "Called Ones"...called to share in the inheritance of Life in Paradise (Eph. 1:18), called to be citizens in the Kingdom and to eat the Harvest Feast of the Last Age (Mat. 22:1-14), and called into union with our Savior, Yesu.  The word never meant a building, organization, or church.  First Century Christians had no clergy, no officers, no corporate organization, no denominations, no church treasury, and no holidays.

The eighteenth chapter of Revelation tells about the coming fall of the church system; and this will occur in the near future to our generation.  So please, hear and obey God's command, "You must come out of her, my people!" (Rev. 18:4).
----------------------
I know there's been some postings recently wrt Mystery Babylon...I have found that to be a s/w confusing subject...church system, financial system, both systems interlocked...I'm not sure...comments?

[jabcat]

Does anyone have any insight into this?  With the TCB being extremely literal and everyday language, I still didn't quite this...probably just missing the spiritual insight...can anyone help?

This is the account of Jesus healing the blind man, that everyone thought was blind because he'd done something wrong...the Pharisees became involved of course, and here's the part I'm not getting exactly...

John 9:39-41....Then Yesu said, "I came into this world for judgment, so that those who don't observe, might be observing;  and those who do observe, might become blind."  Now those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things, and said to Him, "We aren't blind too, are we?"  Yesu said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no wrongdoing; yet since you say, "We can observe", your wrongdoing is staying.   :dontknow:

God's blessing, James

[rosered]

Does anyone have any insight into this?  With the TCB being extremely literal and everyday language, I still didn't quite this...probably just missing the spiritual insight...can anyone help?

This is the account of Jesus healing the blind man, that everyone thought was blind because he'd done something wrong...the Pharisees became involved of course, and here's the part I'm not getting exactly...

John 9:39-41....Then Yesu said, "I came into this world for judgment, so that those who don't observe, might be observing;  and those who do observe, might become blind."  Now those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things, and said to Him, "We aren't blind too, are we?"  Yesu said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no wrongdoing; yet since you say, "We can observe", your wrongdoing is staying.   :dontknow:

God's blessing, James

Hi James
  you think like I do ! i also wondered about this very thing
  and the best example I found  for an answer  , because I looked  and searched 
was Paul 
on the road to Damascus  , He was  seeing  because he  thought he was doing God a service , but he was Blind to the Truth and whaen Jesus met  him on the road  Jesus being the Truth way and Life  , he was stuck down Blind!  by the Light 
I thought that  answered the pharrisees  question in John 9  very well , being that  Saul /  Paul  was a pharissee  and levite as well   and on the  killing end of the ministration of death  the Law of Moses  the traditional and  outward  show  the Law , that is how he could plainly explain to us in Romans  his experiences  in the Lord  and how Paul learned  obedience  though the things he   suffered    for Jesus Christ ..
  I hope I  was able to explain this  right ?
  I get excited and mess up  rushing through ,  my mind works faster than my fingers typing lol ..  :mblush:      it helped me  to understand  seeing Sauls / Pauls experience
to recive sight the Lord appointed Ananias   to help Paul see again  when he was stuck with blindness  by the Light of Christ  and lost sight  , he would be healed and see  again only see right this time  :HeartThrob:


And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,


Act 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.


Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.


Act 9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought [him] into Damascus.

Act 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I [am here], Lord.


Act 9:11 And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for [one] called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,


Act 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting [his] hand on him, that he might receive his sight.


Act 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:


Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.


Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:


Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

[Taffy]

Does anyone have any insight into this?  With the TCB being extremely literal and everyday language, I still didn't quite this...probably just missing the spiritual insight...can anyone help?

This is the account of Jesus healing the blind man, that everyone thought was blind because he'd done something wrong...the Pharisees became involved of course, and here's the part I'm not getting exactly...

John 9:39-41....Then Yesu said, "I came into this world for judgment, so that those who don't observe, might be observing;  and those who do observe, might become blind."  Now those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things, and said to Him, "We aren't blind too, are we?"  Yesu said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no wrongdoing; yet since you say, "We can observe", your wrongdoing is staying.   :dontknow:

God's blessing, James

Hi James
  you think like I do ! i also wondered about this very thing
  and the best example I found  for an answer  , because I looked  and searched 
was Paul 
on the road to Damascus  , He was  seeing  because he  thought he was doing God a service , but he was Blind to the Truth and whaen Jesus met  him on the road  Jesus being the Truth way and Life  , he was stuck down Blind!  by the Light 
I thought that  answered the pharrisees  question in John 9  very well , being that  Saul /  Paul  was a pharissee  and levite as well   and on the  killing end of the ministration of death  the Law of Moses  the traditional and  outward  show  the Law , that is how he could plainly explain to us in Romans  his experiences  in the Lord  and how Paul learned  obedience  though the things he   suffered    for Jesus Christ ..
  I hope I  was able to explain this  right ?
  I get excited and mess up  rushing through ,  my mind works faster than my fingers typing lol ..  :mblush:      it helped me  to understand  seeing Sauls / Pauls experience
to recive sight the Lord appointed Ananias   to help Paul see again  when he was stuck with blindness  by the Light of Christ  and lost sight  , he would be healed and see  again only see right this time  :HeartThrob:


And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,


Act 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.


Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.


Act 9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought [him] into Damascus.

Act 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I [am here], Lord.


Act 9:11 And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for [one] called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,


Act 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting [his] hand on him, that he might receive his sight.


Act 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:


Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.


Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:


Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Amen Rose.

James for me..

Those who Thought they SAW were leading the Blind into a Ditch...as what Rosie has shared , Likened to the Pharisee\levite Saul\Paul

Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

Christ came to HEAL the Blind, the Spiritual Physician.

Those who thought they saw ,ONLY saw  the semblence of the REALITY it spoke OF.

Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Therefore Christ came to HEAL the eyes OF THE BLIND BY Blinding those  who thought they SAW, AS with SAUL, the healing of EYESALVE which again IS CHRIST

,

[jabcat]

Very good!  There's a famous ice cream place in St. Louis called Ted Drewe's...an old family owned business.  On their TV commercials, old Mr. Drewe says, "it really is good, guys"  :bigGrin: :thumbsup:.  God's blessing, Js.

[jabcat]

There's very few things (if anything) that I'm comfortable saying I really understand completely...."a glass darkly"...

[Taffy]

Ice cream..You say Ice cream James...Ok, Mines a double vanilla , Pecan and toffee mix , Heavy on the nuts, topped with Maple syrup

Just to let you guys Know..Maple syrup is Not Big In the UK, I love it, but only in its true form

Once went to share a Meal with a Couple of Texans..who Had your Food imported , anyways , they gave us this Ketchup for the Burgers they  made.....MAN, was it awful....just too sweet for the British tooth..I had to swill it down with Coke, it made coke taste like water....

anyways James...Double Up bro..and dont forget the wafers. :icon_flower:

[rosered]

  I have always wondered about these verses ?? 
anyone care help out ?
  the ones that sleep  in Jesus are with GOD ???

  the word prevent    , get there any sooneror ahead of  than those  asleep/dead in Christ ?  because the dead rise first  , I know that Paul said death was working in Him  while  life was working in  those whom he preached/ministered  to?
  help?  I am not able to simmplify this  at all

  what does the Christan  Bible say bro ?  :msealed:


For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[jabcat]

rosie, i'm glad we do think alike!  thanks for asking about the scrip...i think this is a very interesting translation...it says;

For this we are saying to you by the authority of the Master's Word, that we who are alive and surviving to the Master's Presence [at the beginning of the Last Age], shall by no means surpass those who have fallen asleep.           For the Master Himself will descend from heaven at a shout of command by the voice of a Chief Messenger, and at a blowing of the trumpet of God, and the dead who are in union with the Anointed One will first rise up.          Then after that, we who are alive and surviving, will at the same time be seized away together with them into the air among the clouds to meet the Master, and so we will always be together with the Master.       Therefore, you must be continually encouraging one another with these words!  I Thes. 4:15-18

God's blessing, James.

[Doc]

John 6:64-65; ..there are some of you who don't believe...For this reason I have declared to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted to him by the Father.

To me, this connects to a recent discussion wrt Jesus' use of parables so everyone could understand, etc.....I just don't see it that way.  I don't have the total explanation/revelation for it, but I believe God reveals His truths when and to whom He pleases, and as it fits His overall plan...while at the same time, requiring us to seek out matters, study to show ourselves approved, walk in the light as He is in the light, present our bodies as a living sacrifice, etc...Some were apparently given the gift to see, some not...AT THAT TIME...not that they will never see. 

Thomas Kissinger writes in his Noble Berean and The Glory of God and The Honor of Kings books, it is God's glory to conceal a matter, reveal it as He chooses, including to those who are "seeking out a matter".  And apparently, as stated above, some are granted belief (in this age), and others are not.  The good news IMO about that is below;

John 6:43,44;  ...You must not be grumbling with one another!  No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me, draws him;  and I will raise him up on the Last Day [the Day of the Last Age].  It has been written in the Prophets, "and they will all be taught by God  :notworthy:  [Isa. 54:13].  www.christianbiblesociety.org.


God's blessing, James.

A couple of things. I know from personal experience that God definitely can and does reveal even to those who are not necessarily seeking in a certain direction. UR was revealed to me when I wasn't looking for it... (Which is part of the reason I believe it came from the H.S.)
Then there's the apostle Paul's experience...

What happened to fireinfolding? I notice all her posts are missing...not usually a good sign.

[Taffy]

Fire F is fine Doc ,no worries :icon_flower:

[rosered]

rosie, i'm glad we do think alike!  thanks for asking about the scrip...i think this is a very interesting translation...it says;

For this we are saying to you by the authority of the Master's Word, that we who are alive and surviving to the Master's Presence [at the beginning of the Last Age], shall by no means surpass those who have fallen asleep.           For the Master Himself will descend from heaven at a shout of command by the voice of a Chief Messenger, and at a blowing of the trumpet of God, and the dead who are in union with the Anointed One will first rise up.          Then after that, we who are alive and surviving, will at the same time be seized away together with them into the air among the clouds to meet the Master, and so we will always be together with the Master.       Therefore, you must be continually encouraging one another with these words!  I Thes. 4:15-18

God's blessing, James.

  I  see the symbolic refferense of clouds as witnesses   [ we are  hid in Him ] than from that point on ?
   I still have some questions with these  few verses  though ?
  help ?
  thanks Jabcat  , for the  Christian translation   , i sure need to dig in deeper to see  better      love rose  :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

Does anyone have any insight into this?  With the TCB being extremely literal and everyday language, I still didn't quite this...probably just missing the spiritual insight...can anyone help?

This is the account of Jesus healing the blind man, that everyone thought was blind because he'd done something wrong...the Pharisees became involved of course, and here's the part I'm not getting exactly...

John 9:39-41....Then Yesu said, "I came into this world for judgment, so that those who don't observe, might be observing;  and those who do observe, might become blind."  Now those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things, and said to Him, "We aren't blind too, are we?"  Yesu said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no wrongdoing; yet since you say, "We can observe", your wrongdoing is staying.   :dontknow:

God's blessing, James

I really love this translation of this passage bud!!

Then Yesu said, "I came into this world for judgment, so that those who don't observe, might be observing  For me, this is Gentiles . . .they don't observe the reality of Christ, but when he took on the judgement of the world, they became grafted in. 

and those who do observe, might become blind  This is speaking of the religious that did nothing "but" observe  and their observations birthed judgment and law enforcment.  This is also touching on another thread today speaking of the tares . . .Christ took that which was meant for us (death) and instead gave us which was intended for him (righteousness)  the fact that those that have come into Christ CANNOT sin . .. is saying we should be blind to the tares within us . .blind to the fact that we're not perfect and ONLY see that we are perfected.

Now those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things, and said to Him, "We aren't blind too, are we?"  Yesu said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no wrongdoing; yet since you say, "We can observe", your wrongdoing is staying.

Because they lived by their knowledge and observance of the law, they declared themselves as seeing.  But the blood causes you to be blind to the faults of others . .this is why it's now possible to love your enemies.  You're blinded by their offences.  It's all in what perspective you choose to walk in.

Just my observations

[Taffy]

Then Yesu said, "I came into this world for judgment, so that those who don't observe, might be observing  For me, this is Gentiles

Nice abservation Nat

[rosered]

Because they lived by their knowledge and observance of the law, they declared themselves as seeing.  But the blood causes you to be blind to the faults of others . .this is why it's now possible to love your enemies.  You're blinded by their offences.  It's all in what perspective you choose to walk in.

Just my observations

 That was  Really good Nate  :icon_flower:
 we  judge according to the flesh that is how   the pharrisses judged
 caught in the act and ready to STONE ! accuse whom  ever they  felt  to condemn ,  seeingthemselves above the law  so how ?
they were the ones  to be judged  [princes]
 Jesus said he   he judged no man , but if he judged his judgment was just  [righteous judgment ]    Jesus judged the spirit in a man maybe ?
those who showed no mercy  did not obtain mercy  
 making them Blind to the Love of God  

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Mat 23:24 you blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

 little things  they done were nothing compared to the BIG STUFF!

 Jesus was pointing out to them ..
 love rose  :HeartThrob: