Near-Death Experiences (NDE's)

[IceMan84]

I was just wanting to get some people's opinions regarding NDE's. The following is a pretty good website for some personal NDE accounts as well as general research and conclusions from NDE experiences: http://www.near-death.com/ . For the most part, the evidence from the NDE's support the ideas and philosophy of universal salvation. However, not all involve Christ and some take a more "new age" spin and get into astrology and stuff like that. I am not really sure where I stand on the authenticity of NDE's in general though. One problem is that many people claim they have been able to recreate the NDE experience through drugs, especially DMT (dimethyltryptamine). Scientists believe that DMT could be released in the brain during periods of extreme stress, such as the death process. With the research that is currently available, there is really no way to know for sure, so I guess you just have to faith one way or the other. However, almost everyone who has had an NDE will claim that they know it was an authentic experience, and not one that was caused by drugs or hormones. Many are changed forever and no longer fear death. It is definately an interesting subject to look into...any comments or opinions on the subject are appreciated!

[Doc]

I was just wanting to get some people's opinions regarding NDE's. The following is a pretty good website for some personal NDE accounts as well as general research and conclusions from NDE experiences: http://www.near-death.com/ . For the most part, the evidence from the NDE's support the ideas and philosophy of universal salvation. However, not all involve Christ and some take a more "new age" spin and get into astrology and stuff like that. I am not really sure where I stand on the authenticity of NDE's in general though. One problem is that many people claim they have been able to recreate the NDE experience through drugs, especially DMT (dimethyltryptamine). Scientists believe that DMT could be released in the brain during periods of extreme stress, such as the death process. With the research that is currently available, there is really no way to know for sure, so I guess you just have to faith one way or the other. However, almost everyone who has had an NDE will claim that they know it was an authentic experience, and not one that was caused by drugs or hormones. Many are changed forever and no longer fear death. It is definately an interesting subject to look into...any comments or opinions on the subject are appreciated!

Hi IceMan;
I've read a good bit of the material on that site, and I'm personally convinced most of them are genuine experiences. I also think there's enough evidence to debunk the scientists' notion of it merely being a chemical reaction. Remember that certain drugs (including ones produced naturally by the body) can produce altered (spiritual) states of consciousness even in people who are not dying. That's an argument that can cut both ways, if you think about it. I believe that's part of why we're instructed not to practice "sorcery" (NT Greek:Pharmakeia).  I even know of an individual who met Jesus (as in, visually saw and talked with him) while on an acid trip, and became a Christian afterwards. We have a very big God, for whom nothing is impossible. From what I've seen of Quantum mechanics/physics, I'm certain that God created a universe that's much weirder and more wonderful than we can currently imagine. Just my  :2c:

[IceMan84]

I was just wanting to get some people's opinions regarding NDE's. The following is a pretty good website for some personal NDE accounts as well as general research and conclusions from NDE experiences: http://www.near-death.com/ . For the most part, the evidence from the NDE's support the ideas and philosophy of universal salvation. However, not all involve Christ and some take a more "new age" spin and get into astrology and stuff like that. I am not really sure where I stand on the authenticity of NDE's in general though. One problem is that many people claim they have been able to recreate the NDE experience through drugs, especially DMT (dimethyltryptamine). Scientists believe that DMT could be released in the brain during periods of extreme stress, such as the death process. With the research that is currently available, there is really no way to know for sure, so I guess you just have to faith one way or the other. However, almost everyone who has had an NDE will claim that they know it was an authentic experience, and not one that was caused by drugs or hormones. Many are changed forever and no longer fear death. It is definately an interesting subject to look into...any comments or opinions on the subject are appreciated!

Hi IceMan;
I've read a good bit of the material on that site, and I'm personally convinced most of them are genuine experiences. I also think there's enough evidence to debunk the scientists' notion of it merely being a chemical reaction. Remember that certain drugs (including ones produced naturally by the body) can produce altered (spiritual) states of consciousness even in people who are not dying. That's an argument that can cut both ways, if you think about it. I believe that's part of why we're instructed not to practice "sorcery" (NT Greek:Pharmakeia).  I even know of an individual who met Jesus (as in, visually saw and talked with him) while on an acid trip, and became a Christian afterwards. We have a very big God, for whom nothing is impossible. From what I've seen of Quantum mechanics/physics, I'm certain that God created a universe that's much weirder and more wonderful than we can currently imagine. Just my  :2c:

That's pretty interesting about your friend. I have heard of alot of people having spiritual encounters while on LSD and other drugs of that sort. Quantum physics is a very insteresting topic also but it is just so complex that you really have to devote a lot of time to studying it if you want to even partially understand it. So do you think that these spiritual visions people have on acid trips are actually authentic or do you think it is just the drug playing tricks on the mind? If authentic, do you think Jesus would actually be ok with people using types of drugs (not that I am considering it)?

[WhiteWings]

If authentic, do you think Jesus would actually be ok with people using types of drugs (not that I am considering it)?

The Bible condemes being drunk. Alchol is also a drug. So my guess is no.

:beerburp: :beerburp:

[Doc]

That's pretty interesting about your friend. I have heard of alot of people having spiritual encounters while on LSD and other drugs of that sort. Quantum physics is a very insteresting topic also but it is just so complex that you really have to devote a lot of time to studying it if you want to even partially understand it. So do you think that these spiritual visions people have on acid trips are actually authentic or do you think it is just the drug playing tricks on the mind? If authentic, do you think Jesus would actually be ok with people using types of drugs (not that I am considering it)?

I personally think they are authentic (assuming the fruit afterward confirms it). I don't believe that Jesus is actually "OK" with it, per se. Drugs (especially legal, prescription ones) can have very negative effects on our bodies.That doesn't mean God can't use those situations however, as in the case I pointed out.

[SQ]

I am starting to see NDE from a different perspective, If Jesus wanted to save someone  or get their attention, why not come to them when on a drug.
They obviously are in need of him.
Just throwing my thoughts out there. :girlheart:

[Andromeda_Organa]

If authentic, do you think Jesus would actually be ok with people using types of drugs (not that I am considering it)?

The Bible condemes being drunk. Alchol is also a drug. So my guess is no.

:beerburp: :beerburp:

Jesus drank wine.

[Nathan]

Oh boy . .here we go  . . .

Actually Paul also perscribed Timothy to drink wine for medicinal purposes as well.

I'd probably have a beer once in a while if I could get past the disgusting taste . . .BLEH!!!

Our bodies are very susceptible to addictions . .again, you can do anything you want, but not everything is beneficial . .there are consequences.  And beings the mind is one of the most destructive tools against the kingdom of God . . .I'm a bit skeptic when it comes to people acting on random dreams.  And I'm one who became a pastor of this church because of a vision I had personally.  But for me, the difference was, I just put it on the back burner and waited upon the Lord to reveal the meaning of the vision given.

There needs to be confirmation before any move or response should be made.  Just my personal opinion.

[alihaymeg]

I'll drink to that :beerburp:

[Andromeda_Organa]

Oh boy . .here we go  . . .

Actually Paul also perscribed Timothy to drink wine for medicinal purposes as well.

I'd probably have a beer once in a while if I could get past the disgusting taste . . .BLEH!!!

Our bodies are very susceptible to addictions . .again, you can do anything you want, but not everything is beneficial . .there are consequences.  And beings the mind is one of the most destructive tools against the kingdom of God . . .I'm a bit skeptic when it comes to people acting on random dreams.  And I'm one who became a pastor of this church because of a vision I had personally.  But for me, the difference was, I just put it on the back burner and waited upon the Lord to reveal the meaning of the vision given.

There needs to be confirmation before any move or response should be made.  Just my personal opinion.

what was your vision?

[Nathan]

it's a bit lengthy.  But in short, I saw a group of people dancing in a green field with a huge tree at the edge of it.  I was elevated above them and off to one side and they danced in such unison . . .much like a school of fish in the ocean . . .when one moved, the entire school moved, making it look like one giant fish.

These people just glowed with joy, their faces uplifted and nothing but smiles all around.  But then subtle changes started happening.  And as I watched their actions, I could feel their motives . .very strange.  But they wanted so much to please God that they began to focus on the way they were dancing.  They were being as precise as they possibly could . .still smiling, still having fun, still pure motives and hearts, but they wanted so much to be perfect in their dance as it was unto the Lord.

Then they began comparing their steps with others next to them.   Some tried to be like the person next to them, others tried to get the person next to them, to do what they were doing.  You could see this one body sort of break off into two groups and there was a bit of a discension between the two.  Then they took up partners and focussed on each other's steps . . .which eventually progressed into an extremely perverted and seductive grinding.

All the while this was going on, the music that they were dancing to changed with each little change they went through.  The rhythm started to falter here and there, the volume began to increase, the style got more radical . . .at the peak, the music was now just loud noise, the people were more into their partners and their dance was no longer out of joy, but out of lust and carnal passion.  Then out of no where . . .a voice cried out STOP!  And everyone froze in their position, immediately aware they'd changed.  And that was it.

I was in a room here at work where I would go and pray every night . .I worked on 3rd shift at that time.  And when it was over and I became aware I was in the room again . . .I "knew" God gave me this, but I had no idea what it meant.  This entire thing from the vision to the understanding, it took about 6 weeks for all of it to unfold.  I went on an extended fast in that time . . .that was part of the reason for it, but we'd just gone to a promise keepers convention and one of the sessions there challenged us to go on one . . .fasting for me came fairly easily, I'd been on them before so when it was brought up, this vision was the first thing that came to my mind.

I might also add, that where I am with these dimensions and all . . ."that" birthed out of another extended fast as well.  I don't fast anymore for personal reasons, but I do believe there is much to be said of them.

At any rate, over the course of that 6 weeks, I learned that this church had gone through a split and they were without a pastor as a result of the split.  The Lord spoke to me clearly and revealed that those in the dance were those in this church.  The really eerie thing was, the first time I went to this church, I walked around on the property and directly behind this church is a big hill with a large lawn.  The church sits on top of the hill . . .there were three trees at the edge of it . .it was the exact picture I saw in my vision, but I'd never been there to know this is what it looked like.

It's not a big church, the people were mostly of the retired age group, the younger ones were the ones that tried to force their standards and ended up having to have the denomination's supervisor step in and basically kick one family out . .but as that happened, half the church went with them . . . I gotta get back to my line.

[peacemaker]

A near death experience; the time is fast approaching, as we can only experience the state of dying – not death itself.

"A man's foes are those of his own household."

peacemaker

[Nathan]

Amen . . . we've been taught that the devil as a spirit being our worst enemy . . .but I believe the enemy is within . . .my mind is my biggest problem . .very hard to lay it down but for me, that's the 'only' way one can walk in the spirit . . . understanding does come, but not by labor, only through submission to the spirit.

[Andromeda_Organa]

Amen . . . we've been taught that the devil as a spirit being our worst enemy . . .but I believe the enemy is within . . .my mind is my biggest problem . .very hard to lay it down but for me, that's the 'only' way one can walk in the spirit . . . understanding does come, but not by labor, only through submission to the spirit.

That's very, very, very true!

[alihaymeg]

No doubt about it! :happygrin:

[reFORMer]

I slightly expanded this that I put on another site (with other things.)  It is an NDE:

Though at 23 I was very little developed, only a disciple of Jesus for around four years, becoming aware in the middle of the night that I was awake, I could see through the wall as The Good Shepherd came up the stairs with a large ring of keys and said, "It is time to go now."  Realizing that I hadn't breathed for a while it hurt as I drew a breath.  After experiencing Cheyne-Stokes respiration, I saw that I was but a small wisp of vapor in the vast cavernous temple of my body.  I was then being drawn out of my body, but I was drawn down so I fought as hard as I could.  Then, out, I saw my body across the room from me.  It was kneeling with folded hands at the window looking up with light from heaven shining down on its eyes.  The Spirit of God was in it interceding.  When I found myself back in my body I realized Who had come for me was the Lord and I had wanted very much to go with Him, so I turned and hit the gates of death which were now closed to me.  Much more concerning this experience as well as a number of others I believe have given me some insight into certain things.

I think I've mentioned this experience several times here.  I had no fear of death for many years after this.  I had fasted 2 of 3 intended days and this was the night after the 3rd day.  The word that came to me when I was about to eat after 2 days was, "Fast for three and you will see."  The light from heaven was on the body's eyes, but I didn't see what there was therein to see.  There's more to this, but I don't want to continue writing it.

Give yourself to the God of Jesus and seek Him earnestly, in Scripture, prayers and fasting, in set apart times for Him alone...you'll have experiences with the Holy Spirit.  Our Adam body came with eyes.  How much more our Divine life!  Consciousness is an evidence of life.

[Pierac]

(Ecc 9:10)  Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.

Nuff said!

(Joh 5:28-29)  Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the
resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.


Why would someone go to 'Hell' before they are even judged?

(Joh 3:13) No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Hell included, I would think...?

[Cardinal]

Give yourself to the God of Jesus and seek Him earnestly, in Scripture, prayers and fasting, in set apart times for Him alone...you'll have experiences with the Holy Spirit.  Our Adam body came with eyes.  How much more our Divine life!  Consciousness is an evidence of life.

:cloud9: AMEN! He allows us to see as He sees, on occasion. The Word produces experiences, which is the Word coming alive within us. The Spirit comes to perform the Word. Thanks for posting your experience Reformer.

And I shared this on another thread, but my grandmother and uncle had NDEs from heart attacks. One was on the operating table. No one in my family doubted something had happened to them. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

If authentic, do you think Jesus would actually be ok with people using types of drugs (not that I am considering it)?

The Bible condemes being drunk. Alcohol is also a drug. So my guess is no.

:beerburp: :beerburp:

Jesus drank wine.

Drinking wine is different from being drunk.
Drinking wine is not condemend but being drunk is. Then it starts to be a drug.