Annihilation vs. Heaven ? Heaven vs. Hell?!

[DeeDee]

I have been reading up and catching up on the forums today a bit and I noticed something very odd. To me it seems that many here do still believe in Hell (in the traditional sense), some base this on the belief of NDE's of Hell. Another interesting thing I noticed is that some grasp the idea of annihilation after death and they don't believe the soul is immortal.

On the traditional Hell belief, I think it is quite safe to say that traditional Hell is both a church invention and mistranslation of doctrines. Why then do so many still grasp it as truth? I know I still wonder sometimes, but I can't bring myself to believe it anymore.

I have always felt the soul is immortal. Since Jesus died for the sins of the world so that we can have eternal life. To me the idea of annihilation does not fit in with universalism. We teach that all will be in all oneday and not that some with will be with God and the others simply cease to exist. I do however find it interesting that some believe otherwise.

Please be open and lets discuss this and what you believe and why.

Blessings
Dee

[WhiteWings]

I think part of the problem is what we are actually made of.

Some say: Flesh+Soul
Some say: Flesh+Soul+Spirit

[alihaymeg]

There seem to be several factors that affect a person's opinions on Hell.

Seeker Vs Follower- A person who is more comfortable following the majority will always defend what is popular opinion, even if they have no real evidence other than the regurgitated sayings that they have heard all their lives. It is human nature to side with our in-groups when they are a large part of our personal identity. That is why those of us who are naturally non-conformist have a much easier time exploring the possibilities.

Forgiving Vs Intolerant- Many injustices have been justified by the belief that God is wrathful and vengeful. When they burned supposed witches at the stake, they did so assuming that the person deserved to be burned alive for eternity and they wanted to send them off already burning. If you admit that God intends to restore all of His children, then you have to lay down all of your biases including biases against homosexuals. Some Christians enjoy hating fags because God hates them (not my feeling at all). Homosexuality is exactly the same as any other sexual sin including heterosexual fornication. It is a focusing on the flesh rather than the spirit. But we tend to feel the same way that we believe our God feels.

As I have seen discussed here several times, I believe that the message of universal restoration is much more easily accepted by those who are on the fringe; those who have never felt comfortable in a church building. Those who are spiritual, but do not subscribe to the traditional ways of thinking. They are more willing to accept things that make sense in regards to a God who is supposed to be all loving and Fatherly. I think that this movement will be largely driven by those people.

[Taffy]

Gehenna fire in particular may cause traditionalists to stumble ,and Im afraid that toooooooooo many dont see Christs words as SPIRIT and Life , But   see in many places death and ET.

Then we have ,God is a Consuming FIRE , and terms such as Punishment ,destruction etc...they seem to concoct all this into ,the WICKED gets singed to a Cinder for ever and ever , while the Righteous Dwell in the Clouds ,forever immortal.

what gets destroyed as Going through the Flames is the carnal mind \heart,( soul)if you will, our thought Process ,

does that perish, well yes it does ,....our Minds are renewed,as is the soul which never dies.

what persihes is Carnality..to be carnal minded is DEATH

scripture speaks of those who SPEAK from the Grave(tombs) ,... that is those who dwell after law and remain DEAD in their sins,...it is this which needs to perish....


Just consider this verse  and those which preceed by comparison...

Ive heard it mentioned that all sin begins in the Heart , so may I ask, what uses is cutting off your hands feet and plucking out your eye, dont  you treat the Cause ? some say Hyperbole, I say no, Christ words are Spirit and parabolic

Mar 9:42

the worm that dieth not, a C and P made to WW sometime back

Job 25:6 How much less man, [that is] a worm?((rimmah=maggot) and the son of man, [which is] a worm (towla=crimson worm)

Two types

A maggot and a Worm...

towla

When the female of the scarlet worm species was ready to give birth to her young, she would attach her body to the trunk of a tree, fixing herself so firmly and permanently that she would never leave again. The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched and able to enter their own life cycle. As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. From the dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the commercial scarlet dyes of antiquity were extracted. What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding his precious blood that he might 'bring many sons unto glory' (Hbr 2:10)! He died for us, that we might live through him! Psa 22:6 describes such a worm and gives us this picture of Christ. (cf. Isa 1:18)" (Henry Morris. Biblical Basis for Modern Science, Baker Book House, 1985, p. 73)


Maggots eat only the flesh of the DEAD,then eventually it CHANGES into a fly....IT DOESNT DIE.

The transformation of moving from Death to LIFE as is the Resurrection unto LIFE


im sure Willie will give more detail on the Word Hell.wakey wakey Bill :icon_flower:

[alihaymeg]

Absolutely!

The whole point of using fire to describe the process of purification was that it was commonly understood. The fire does not burn the metal. It simply burns away the impurities leaving a purified substance.

[sven]

i think the bible teaches a resurection of the body, so i tend not to believe neither in hell nor in heaven, its hard for me to imagine an afterlife at all but i think punishment in the netherworld is a pagan doctrine.

i dont believe in an immortal soul, when reading revelation 22:

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.  In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

it seems there will still be mortal people, mortal people have no immortal soul in my opinion

as the lake of fire is called second death, i dont think its a purgatory or a kind of hell, but death = cease to exist, but i think there might be a resurection of 2nd death when last enemy death ist destroyed, i think last enemy is 2nd death, i also dont think gehenna is purgatory or a kind of hell but nothing than a garbage dump near Jerusalem.

For it seems the unbelievers will be judged/punished in front of the white throne, then cease to exist and be ressurected at the end of all ages.

[MacPherson]

Looks like I should have scrolled down further before writing my Annihilationism verses UR post.