controversy about textus receptus

[sven]

i know it doesnt fit really in this topic, what to you think about this controversy, in Germany the hell preachers seem to favour the textus receptus, they might be a sort of the KJV-only people, its interesting that the Luther 1545 bible differs a lot of the KJV, i can post some verses if there is interest, but there also some point about judgement which differ from textus receptus and eg. codex sinaiticus.

Markus 3,29 (Youngs literal translation)

but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment (aionon krisis?);

the codex sinaiticus has "aionon" sin, the latin vulgate has also sin and might be older than the TR

2. Peter 2,17
These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept;

to the age (aion) is missing in the codex sinaiticus, in most german bibles its translated eternity, but you find the same words in Judas, so it doesnt matter if its missing in 2. Peter, bad argument.

Markus 9,43

43 `And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable -- 
44 where there worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched. 
45 `And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable -- 
46 where there worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched. 
47 And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the gehenna of the fire -- 

verses 44 and 46 are missing in the codex sinaiticus, but that doesnt change anything

1. Corinthians 15,55

O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?

the codex sinaiticus has O Death, thy sting? where, O Death, thy victory?

saying two times death, could mean the second death, the latin vulgate has it like the codex sinaticus

i just was a little confused about this controversy, because the Concordant Literal Translation doesnt use the TR, and i have another concordant bible, using the codex sinaiticus only, but i maybe buy Youngs Literal Translation.

what do you think about the textus receptus?

[martincisneros]

Textus Receptus is a bit corrupted.  Erasmus didn't have access to the entire New Testament in Greek when he compiled that.  So, what does he do rather than to simply publish what he's got access to?  He decides to translate the missing pieces into Greek from the Latin Vulgate. :laughing7: Erasmus honestly, but mistakenly, thought that the Latin text was superior to the Greek text.  The likelihood on this not only being a matter of Church tradition from how he was raised, but also the scarcity of Greek manuscripts that were sufficiently ancient enough to where his Latin text might have honestly been older.  But it's a conceit to think that he could have produced accurate ancient Greek based off of translating the Latin Vulgate into Greek where he was missing fragments of the Byzantine Greek manuscripts.  Newer translations are based upon much, much older Greek manuscripts that would more accurately reflect the writing and intentions of the Apostles.

Where the textus receptus wasn't translated by Erasmus from Latin to Greek, but where it's the actual ancient Greek of the Byzantine manuscripts, those New Testament manuscripts only date to about the 9th Century A.D.  And we've now got Greek manuscripts of the entire New Testament from the 1st century.  Some still insist on saying 2nd Century on manuscripts of Revelation and 2Peter, but that's out of date info.  It's all 1st century stuff that scholars have now.  Even if many of the manuscripts are fragmentary.  There's enough fragments of different copies to reconstruct a 1st century copy of all of it.

[sven]

do you thing, this might have a deeper meaning:

1. corinthians 15,26

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1. Corinthians 15,55

Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?

saying two times "death" could mean the second death from revelation

its originally a quote from Osee 13,14 (septuagint version)

I will deliver them out of the power of Hades, and will redeem them from death:
where is thy penalty, O death? O Hades, where is thy sting?

some could have change the textus receptus to fit the old testament/septuagint, but Paul could have meant something special, writung both times death, if its the original reading, what do u thing about this idea?

[martincisneros]

55where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?' (1Corinthians 15:55 Young's Literal Translation)

55 O death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory (1Corinthians 15:55 Wesley's New Testament 1755)

55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? (1Corinthians 15:55 Webster's Bible Translation)

55 "O death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?" (1Corinthians 15:55 J. P. Green's Literal)

55"O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" (1Corinthians 15:55 NKJV)

And yet both the Concordant Literal and Rotherham's will use the word "death" both times in the passage in the way that you quoted it, which makes me think that there's a variation in the Greek manuscripts on that particular word in the sentence, sometimes being death and sometimes being Hades depending on which manuscript you're looking at.  Yet if you look at the view of Death and Hades the ancient myths, then there appears to be no contradiction.  And yet at the same time, in the book of Revelation it says that both Death and Hades give up the dead that are in them, so, I don't know on this one verse, although just about all study reference Bibles will refer back to the Hosea 13:14 passage, so the likelihood of it being "Hades" as the way that St. Paul wrote it is pretty strong.  Contextually, he's talking about the remainder of those that were still dead in Adam being made alive in Christ, and if Hades is where any of those not yet made alive in Christ happen to be, then from there they will be made alive in Christ as you study the whole chapter, with the glory of the latter house being greater than that of the former house.

[sven]

which makes me think that there's a variation in the Greek manuscripts on that particular word in the sentence

the textus receptus has hades, the older manuscripts (eg. codex sinaiticus) both time death, also the latin vulgate, it might have a deeper meaning.

Where, O (first ?) death, is your victory? Where, O (second ?) death, is your sting?

do you get what i mean? - what do u think?

[WhiteWings]

An article on this topic: Click here

[jabcat]

interesting thread - bump