Fruit of Hell-fire teaching

[Andromeda_Organa]

Kind of late to reply to this thread, but here goes!

This is a copy of an essay I wrote for my religion class.

[color=pink]
A wise man known as The Buddha once stated "To know and not to do is not to know."
I have observed the truth of this statement many times in my life, but never as profoundly as during the eleven years I spent attending -----------------------------------------

I began attending this church at the age of five and did not leave until I was sixteen. My parents chose this church for me because of the children's programs. Being a child, of course, I suspected nothing suspicious, still in that innocent age when all is good, one believes the whole world is safe, and my life revolved around the games I played on the very first Nintendo and cartoons on Nickelodeon. I was taught the story of Jesus' life in the Gospels- his birth, his love for everyone, his betrayal, and the resurrection.

The children's services were very fun and informative.  Again, there was nothing suspicious or controlling about this format. We simply learned about sin and were told about Jesus' love for us without being condemned.  During my childhood years, I had come to trust Pastor Leonardo, Pastor Jean, and Miss Amalia.  However, things began to change when I turned 9.

My body entered puberty early due to the fact that I was overweight. This was very hard on me as I had begun menstruating before the other girls and I was both embarrassed and angry at my body for doing this. I confronted in my mother about this as she was at the time working as a gynecologist, but she could offer little comfort, so I told Miss Amalia.
All she told me was that women had to suffer this because of Eve having eaten the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Instead of receiving help, I began to become angry at God for making me go through such a painful thing.

The following year, when I entered fifth grade, I began to listen to the Spice Girls. Although now I cringe when I remember this, at the time I thought they were the only band worth listening to. Neither my parents nor I saw the harm in this, however,  my Sunday School teacher, ----- criticized me harshly for this. He told me that listening to the Spice Girls would cause me to have sex outside of marriage, dress provocatively and "fall away from the Lord." There was also a sermon from Pastor Leonardo in which he preached to all parents of children about how evil the Spice Girls were and to burn all the children's merchandise.  My parents didn't take his advice, thank goodness, but for years after that, I constantly worried when I chose a song to listen to if my soul would be put in jeapordy for my choice.

As I entered the seventh grade and moved from the children's ministry to the teenage ministry, I began to encounter more opposition to my personality. To begin with, I had always been an ambitious woman. Although my goals have changed, at the time, I wanted to become an astronaut. In addition to other teens teasing  me for this choice, the adults, instead of offering emotional support as I was taught Christ would have done, only added to the problem. I was told that an astronaut was an unfit profession for a woman and that the only fit profession for a woman was to marry and bear many children, preferably sons.

My thirteenth year, I began to feel suicidal. It was my first time, but unfortunately, not my last. With help from my loving parents and grandmother, I turned to the Gospels and read the words of Christ. My favorite became the words of Christ in John 10:10 "My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life." Once I entered a "well period", I began to think "Hmmm. If I enjoy this music, and this book, and this game, shouldn't I be allowed to play it?" I also began to read the Gospels more and more, where Christ speaks about God's love. As I attended the sermons I noticed that the pastors rarely quoted Christ and they never spoke about God's love at all. The sermons were judgmental and hate-filled. I began to think more and more, reflecting especially on the passage in Matthew 7 1-3: "Do not judge and you will not be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven."  If these are the words of Jesus, and Jesus is God(this is the foundation of my faith after all!) why aren't the leaders of my church following or even  quoting his words?

I continued to attend the church, however, until October of 2004 when a woman told me that listening to Madonna and following Christ were incompatible. This woman even went as far as to compare Madonna to Hitler!  Finally, I was so wounded and tired of being judged that I left. I almost left my faith, and for awhile I DID and worshipped the goddess Athena. After that phase was over,  for a long time I just prayed and prayed and I became reassured that Scripture had been twisted.

After all, Christ commands us to love one another, and his disciple John quotes in his letter "anyone who claims to love God yet hates his brother is a liar." I cannot judge the heart of those who judged me, but their attitudes towards me were very harsh and unsympathetic, therefore, I believe it is safe to repeat Buddha's quote "To know and not to do is not to know." If these people know Christ commands us to love and not to judge, yet they behave judgmentally, then they truly do not know Christ.[/color]

[Shadow]

I cringe when the pastor talks about hell because I am a firm believer in UR. After the first Bible Study I did, the pastor told me I "had to get the notion of all being saved out of my head, that I was denying Christ"

That's why I'm more comfortable being labeled an agnostic, rather than a christian, as I can't identify with people that think the way they do, and the flippant casualty with which they unquestioningly accept this doctrine, the most important thing to them, is that they themselves are secure, what does it matter if anyone else goes to hell, they can quite comfortably sleep in their beds at night, content that they are saved at the expense of others. My problem is I want God to love and save everyone, not just me

I grew up catholic, then went to the Assembly of God, although I became a believer 20 years ago, I've never had 100% assurance of salvation

Unlike many people in the church, I did take the hell teaching somewhat seriously, at least to the extent that I've never had children myself, I'm 41 years old, I wasn't prepared to take the chance, if the remotest possibility of an eternal hell was true

It seems as if people throughout the centuries,either didn't believe, or listen to what the preachers were saying, or otherwise they are just downright selfish in having children

This teaching is like a knife slicing through my heart, how can one want to even live, let alone enjoy life ( something I've never known, even under normal circumstances), knowing most of mankind will be subjected to this horrible fate

My problem is I can't see an all loving God, who loves all mankind unconditionally as hard as I try, even if I may start to, there's always someone, or something to burst my bubble (like the Bill Wiese's and the Mary Baxter of this world amongst others) :sigh:

Strange as it may seem, I don't want to deconvert from believing Jesus is the messiah, Lord and Saviour, I just want everyone to be saved, is that so wrong and bad

Joh 6:67  Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68  Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

[sven]

My problem is I can't see an all loving God, who loves all mankind unconditionally as hard as I try, even if I may start to, there's always someone, or something to burst my bubble (like the Bill Wiese's and the Mary Baxter of this world amongst others)

more and more, i tend to believe the teaching of ET is a really satanic and demonic doctrine, as Jesus said the most important commandment ist to love God, but as important is it to love your next like yourself, no-one could love his next like himself and also God when believing God would torture them forever and ever, so u either cant love really God or your next when believing in ET, maybe that is what satan wants.

Its important to know the bible good, i like the concordant literal translation (german) most, i quess it might also the best english translation. as for the old testament i prefer a jewish translation.

the bible warns a lot of false prophets, human philosophy, doctrine of demons.
i cant really believe it too, so i wouldnt myself call a christian as well, i like more the modern jewish belief.

Jeremiah 23,30 fits well for self claimed prophets:

Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal My words every one from his neighbour. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues and say: 'He saith.'  Behold, I am against them that prophesy lying dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies, and by their wantonness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them; neither can they profit this people at all, saith the LORD.

[Nathan]

I'm sort of changing a little in my judgment against the traditionalists.  I got to thinking "if" I am born in to sin . . .I did nothing to "be" a sinner, I was just born as one . . .and just as I didn't do anything to be a sinner, I also did nothing to be redeemed from my sin.  Jesus already did that on my behalf.  So now, I don't necessarily need to go in front of a church full of people and respond to an altar call, I just simply believe Jesus did what the Word says he did and out of that belief, I also confess.

So . . .
If I'm "born" into sin, how then can God be mad at us for doing what we're born into?  He's not.  Religion teaches he is upset at us when we screw up . .but God never was.  Even before I came to accept Christ, God wasn't mad at me . .and now that I have accepted Christ, God still isn't mad at me . . .my spirit is resurrected, but my flesh is still present within me as well.  God doesn't get mad at me for being a human . .limited in all things, weak and selfish in what's left.

If God doesn't get mad at me when I'm doing what I was born into . . .then I can't very well be upset with those that proclaim what they were raised to proclaim.  I can disagree, but I can't really hold it against them.  It's what they were taught to believe.  Even their agressive tactics against those of us who obviously are heretics in their eyes, I can't blame them.  They are simply doing what the church taught them to believe and do.

May God show his mercy of light and love on them as he has shown to us so that they to can rejoice in the freedom and experience the feeling of flying with eagles as God has been leading us to these high places where the noise of man can not be heard, just the wind of the spirit blowing in our ears.

[WhiteWings]

I got to thinking "if" I am born in to sin . . .I did nothing to "be" a sinner, I was just born as one . . .
........
So . . .
If I'm "born" into sin, how then can God be mad at us for doing what we're born into?  He's not.  Religion teaches he is upset at us when we screw up . .but God never was. 
.......

Nathan,
I understand what you wrote and agree with it but that is just our interpretation of it.
Others read the same as you wrote but add "God is mad because someone doesn't turn to Jesus."

[Nathan]

From what tree are these others eating from then?  If they don't see mercy and grace, but instead see anger and judgment . .which tree are they living in?  There are only two and one of them is "Life".  Does anger and judgment sound like life?

[WhiteWings]

Maybe the point is that they do not eat from the tree of life (=turning to Jesus)

[Nathan]

I do believe we have a winner!  Exactly right.  Living in the tree of knowledge is not living in life.  It's living according to what I perceive to be right. Note that once Adam was removed from the garden, the only tree mentioned after he left as that of Life.  The other tree went with Adam.

A friend emailed me today and they said something that really struck a chord in me. 
Man's greatest creation (invention)  "thinks" in a base of two (binary system  0 and 1; off/on; positive/negative charges etc....  man thinks in a base of two:good/evil...   The computer can do all that man can do, but does it in a mechanical way, because it's a machine.   Man can do all that God can do, but does it in a physical way, because he is physical being

We are a peculiar people, we have the ability to be in both spirit and natural at the same time.  We're to function in the one, but dwell in the other.  I'll leave it up to you as to which is which.

[Shadowland]

So as a man believeth, so he is.