NO second chances!

[DeeDee]

I was browsing the internet again this Evening looking for different bible versions, when I came across a website called www.bible-truths-revealed.com

Under a question they post "If Jesus is the only way of Salvation, what happens to those who have never heard of Him?" there is a rather lengthy answer and the last bit of it is the following;

The question of what happens to all those who have never heard of Jesus is one of the most thought provoking issues in Christendom, and there are many differing views on the subject. However, one thing is certain - there are no second chances for anyone to find out about Jesus or to hear the gospel after they die, contrary to what some believe. Scriptures are clear on this point (CP He 9:27-28; Rev 22:11-12). Knowing this should impress upon Christians the urgency for sharing the good news of Christ with as many as we possibly can while there is still time (CP Jn 9:4). See also comments on Mt 18:3, 19:13-15 and Ro 1:19-21.

Hebrews 9 verses 27 and 28 and
Revelations 22 verses 11 and 12

27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Shouldn't that many actually read ALL? Anyhow in the NIV this verse doesn't sound damming at all so its not a valid argument for that website.

11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

Even these verses don't seem damming.


John 9:4

4As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

Okay this verse I don't fully understand. It would appear this one is teaching that we should find Jesus before it is too late for us.

Mt 18:3, 19:13-15

3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Okay this verse I don't fully understand either. It would appear to teach that those who are'nt like Gods children are doomed.

13Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
14Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

okay this verse just seems sort of the same as the one above, even though here Jesus does'nt say anything about the rest not getting into Heaven. Unless you take the disciples rebuking the people that brought the children as those who are'nt going to make it to Heaven.

Lastly we have Romans 1:19-21

19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Okay this verse doesn't back up that website at all imo.

So please lets discuss the verses above that I don't quite understand. Thanks and Blessings

DeeDee

[martincisneros]

Hebrews 9:27: Neither this passage nor any other indicates that after death and judgment that salvation is impossible, otherwise after life and judgment in this life no one could be saved either when there's an instance of bonafide judgment that takes place here.  Because usually the emphasis is upon having faced judgment when this passage of Scripture is brought up, more than necessarily upon the death itself.  As far as the many that He died to take away the sin of, it's the same many who were made sinners in Romans 5.  In Romans 5 the one and the many equals all.  Adams sin made the many sinners, while Christ's act of obedience to God in dying the death that He died makes the many righteous.  It's still a way of saying that none are excluded, but it's more technical.  Had the passage about Adam meant "all" in the strictest sense, then it would be claiming that Christ was made a sinner through Adam's fall, which He wasn't.  And had the passage about Christ meant "all" in the strictest sense, then it would be claiming that Christ needed to be made righteous through His own substitutionary, redemptive work.  In a general sense Adam is the fall of all, just as in a general sense Christ is the salvation of all.  The language of Romans 5:18-19 is language that you find throughout the Bible where it'll either specifically say "many" or it'll say "all" for clarification, but both intend "all."  I haven't studied this in a long time, so I'm not 100% sure right at this moment, but this may get into the distinguishing between the firstfruits and the latter fruits concepts in Scripture.

Revelation 22:11-12: Though not all are preterists and few are preterists among evangelicals, this argument isn't really harmed one way or the other: it was saying that when John wrote the book of Revelation that wickedness, injustice, and impurity would continue still for quite a while longer.  For those insisting that all that's in those last two chapters is exclusively future from when that was written, they're still stuck with proving conclusively rather than by an inference of their theology and lack of knowledge of the Scriptures that the last two chapters are the so-called "eternal state."  1Corinthians 15:28 is after the time period described in Revelation chapters 21 and 22.  Elhanan Winchester in the 1700s thought that this was a strong passage against those who deny future punishments after this life in their brand of Universalism.  King James uses the word "still" in this passage in saying let them be unrighteous still, or let them be holy still, etc.  Most people would acknowledge that "always" is a stronger word than "still."  In Romans 11:10 a passage is quoted by St. Paul that's got stronger language about the backslidden condition of Israel in saying that their back should be bent back always.  Yet the chapter closes with all of Israel will be saved.  Jesus had said that the poor you'd have with you always, but what would be the point in preaching the Gospel to the poor if the poor would always remain poor?  Even for those doubting 2Corinthians 8:9 about His redemptive work in their finances, and the power of His Blood to remit absolutely all of their debts and not just their debts with Him, there's still the issue of the poor won't be poor always because of the last couple of chapters of Revelation where a solid gold city is supposed to drop out of the sky like a brick or like a body being thrown out of a plane.  Additionally, the last two chapters of the book of Revelation describe an entirely different world from our own.  That sounds simple, but that's overlooked by the ET crowd on these verses, although it should be the most naturally self evident point of those last two chapters of Revelation.  So, why would the wicked and unrighteous, unclean and unholy of a future dispensation that's virtually on a different planet have any baring on the wicked of our generations?  Though both holy and unholy from our world will be in that world, it's not the strongest argument possible to argue for ET from that passage because of that problem of frame of reference on who you're specifically talking about in those couple of verses.

John 9:4: Jesus had just healed someone and was referring to when He would be crucified and those three days and nights when none of them could work those works among the people.  There was also a 40 day time period after Jesus' resurrection when it's not likely that very many people were getting healed.  It's a pointless reference, particularly when St. Paul talks about the night having passed and the day being at hand regarding what he was teaching (i.e. Romans 13:12).  Romans 13 would seem to make Jesus' comment in John 9 specifically about when the powers of darkness would have seemed to have won, as in with His crucifixion, because Paul's later saying that since the day is here, let's cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.

Matthew 18:3: When Jesus said to become like a child to enter the Kingdom, he was talking about relying on God for everything rather than trying to get in by your own efforts with keeping the Mosaic law.

Romans 1:19-21: Romans 1 closes with the classic explanation on the source of homosexuality, and isn't a passage that speaks to either side of the issue of ET or Universal Restoration.  He's beginning to deal with the self righteousness of people as he'll get into more detail on in the 2nd chapter.  Again, not very relevant to solidifying the case for either ET or the Universal Restoration.  Romans 1 just simply says that there was a fall that can get progressively worse if we harden our hearts.

[CHB]

The question of what happens to all those who have never heard of Jesus is one of the most thought provoking issues in Christendom, and there are many differing views on the subject. However, one thing is certain - there are no second chances for anyone to find out about Jesus or to hear the gospel after they die, contrary to what some believe. Scriptures are clear on this point (CP He 9:27-28; Rev 22:11-12). Knowing this should impress upon Christians the urgency for sharing the good news of Christ with as many as we possibly can while there is still time (CP Jn 9:4). See also comments on Mt 18:3, 19:13-15 and Ro 1:19-21.

Hebrews 9 verses 27 and 28 and
Revelations 22 verses 11 and 12

27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Shouldn't that many actually read ALL? Anyhow in the NIV this verse doesn't sound damming at all so its not a valid argument for that website.

11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

Even these verses don't seem damming.


John 9:4

4As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

Okay this verse I don't fully understand. It would appear this one is teaching that we should find Jesus before it is too late for us.

Mt 18:3, 19:13-15

3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Okay this verse I don't fully understand either. It would appear to teach that those who are'nt like Gods children are doomed.

13Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
14Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

okay this verse just seems sort of the same as the one above, even though here Jesus does'nt say anything about the rest not getting into Heaven. Unless you take the disciples rebuking the people that brought the children as those who are'nt going to make it to Heaven.

Lastly we have Romans 1:19-21

19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Okay this verse doesn't back up that website at all imo.

So please lets discuss the verses above that I don't quite understand. Thanks and Blessings

DeeDee

Hi DeeDee,

Here is the way I see it for what its worth.  :2c: Someone else may be able to give a better explaination of this.

First, Jesus message was mostly for Israel. (Matt. 15:24)

The Kingdom of Heaven is not salvation it is a kingdom that that was promised to Israel, not Gentiles.

When it speaks of works, it is talking to those that were under the old law and New Covenant. I don't think we are, nor ever have been under either.

I think Jesus was telling them that they needed to forgive, be humble and trust in God. A child forgives easily, is humbled easily, and trust easily. Also Jesus was speaking to those under the law.

This article is right about one thing, there are no second chances. First, there are no such thing as chances with God. There are no second chances because no one will need a second chance. God gets it right the first time. Some have never heard of Jesus but I think there will come a time when all will be taught of God, whether in this life or the next. No man knows the whole truth. I think God will teach us the whole truth at some point in time.

These verses talk about how God will teach his people.  I like (John 6:45). Also in (Isaiah 54:13) (Jer. 31:34). I think this verse was fulfilled on the cross.  (Micah 4:2)

Just about the whole Bible is for, to, and about Israel, except for some of the writings of Paul. The whole Bible is for our learning, and the things that happened to Israel are examples for us to follow but the laws and Covenants are not for Gentiles. All of Israel living in Jesus time was under the law and you have to take that into consideration when reading these things.

(Rom. 19:21) Speaks about there being no excuse, that the invisible things are clearly seen , saying they "are without excuse". If you go on and read the last verse it says what is the fate of those who are without excuse. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death. Something we all will take part in.

CHB

[DeeDee]

I was browsing the internet again this Evening looking for different bible versions, when I came across a website called www.bible-truths-revealed.com

there are no second chances for anyone to find out about Jesus or to hear the gospel after they die, contrary to what some believe.

Dee, you really need to quit looking for trouble on the internet (said the pot to the kettle) :laughing7:

How can there be a second chance, when there wasn't a first chance? Now, no third chance, that I could understand :icon_jokercolor:

lol Brian  :laughing7: , no seriously I just happened to find this online - wasn't looking for it. I enjoy debunking ET now, thats why I posted this here.

Thanks yet again Martin for superb answers and thanks CHB for you lovely enlightened version.

Blessings
DeeDee

[Tony N]

I was browsing the internet again this Evening looking for different bible versions, when I came across a website called www.bible-truths-revealed.com

there are no second chances for anyone to find out about Jesus or to hear the gospel after they die, contrary to what some believe.

Dee, you really need to quit looking for trouble on the internet (said the pot to the kettle) :laughing7:

How can there be a second chance, when there wasn't a first chance? Now, no third chance, that I could understand :icon_jokercolor:

Very good Brian! I was thinking the same thing! God does not work by chance by by choice, His choice.