The End Of The World??

[DeeDee]

I am seeing more and more websites on the internet talking about The Apocolypse (not sure how you spell it) being the 21/12/2012. Others say this date will "only" mark some world wide catastrophe. Now as far as I can see this is all based on the end of the Mayan calender or something like that. Is there anything in our bible that tells us of such events taking place on said date? As far as I know, the bible does'nt give exact dates for anything (revelations). In fact if memory serves are'nt we taught to not try and figure out such dates? They use astrology to make these predicitions aswell. Is'nt astrology forbidden? Dunno what you all make of all this.

Blessings
DeeDee

[jabcat]

Been hearing this too, and yes, it's gotten my attention and rattled me a little (oh me of little faith).  IMO though, you are right...as far as I know, there's really nothing clear in scripture that supports these dates.  I probably don't know exactly everything that it means, but scripture states even Jesus doesn't know "the day or the hour".  James.

[WhiteWings]

There is even a site with a free book about it. The author claims he's one of the 2 witnesses if IIRC.
http://www.the-end.com/2008GodsFinalWitness/

Free .pdfs of 2 books.
1 paperback can be ordered free of any costs.

[DeeDee]

There is even a site with a free book about it. The author claims he's one of the 2 witnesses if IIRC.
http://www.the-end.com/2008GodsFinalWitness/

Free .pdfs of 2 books.
1 paperback can be ordered free of any costs.

I already have this pdf. but haven't read it yet. Have you?

[WhiteWings]

Nope.

I have the book on my bookshelf for a year I think and haven''t even openend it.
I keep finding other books. Often by accident. Yesterday I ordered a few extra for about $3.00 a piece.

[DeeDee]

Nope.

I have the book on my bookshelf for a year I think and haven"t even openend it.
I keep finding other books. Often by accident. Yesterday I ordered a few extra for about $3.00 a piece.

LOL you sound like me. I have so much reading material in pdf. format that I doubt I will be able to get thru it all by the next millenium lol.

[SeekerSA]

Hi Dee

There have been many predictions and most of these folk are the left-behind rapture cult.

Their prophets are Hal Lindsey and Jack van Impe.  Van Impe was the one who tabled the Mayan link as he has been wrong sooo many times.

IMO, there is no end whatsoever.  We are all appointed to die, and then the judgment.  Rapturists just ignore that verse.  There is a strong likelihood there is no second coming either.  An age may end but a new one will begin.  IMO, all the prediction happened 70AD.

[Craig]

There is a strong likelihood there is no second coming either.

There is a second coming, and it is exactly when you said it would happen SeekerSA.

IMO, there is no end whatsoever.  We are all appointed to die, and then the judgment. 

People just ignore that 'the judgment' is supposed to be His Second Coming. :P

[SeekerSA]

Hi Dee

Check out my blog (link in signature), there is an article I posted that deals with the rapture, it is long but read it. (Scroll down the page and click the link)

SA have adopted this lie too but most of the charismatics imported the American version of Christianity viz. Ray McAuly who was a student of Kennith Hagen.

The Afrikaans churches do not teach this end times nonsense but their roots are Europe.

I think South Africans are more open to the UR message as we do not have IMO fire and Brimstone Preachers here like John Hagee.

[DeeDee]

The Afrikaans churches do not teach this end times nonsense but their roots are Europe.

I think South Africans are more open to the UR message as we do not have IMO fire and Brimstone Preachers here like John Hagee.

What do the Afrikaans churches teach? Since I am half an Afrikaner I find this fascinating. Growing up I went to my moms English (Methodist) churches.

I have come across a few fire and brimstone preachers I am afraid and unfortunately one of them was at a funeral of all places - The man was trying to imply the deceased person was not saved. Was not very pleasant.

Blessings
Dee

[Paul Hazelwood]

I am seeing more and more websites on the internet talking about The Apocolypse (not sure how you spell it) being the 21/12/2012. Others say this date will "only" mark some world wide catastrophe. Now as far as I can see this is all based on the end of the Mayan calender or something like that. Is there anything in our bible that tells us of such events taking place on said date? As far as I know, the bible does'nt give exact dates for anything (revelations). In fact if memory serves are'nt we taught to not try and figure out such dates? They use astrology to make these predicitions aswell. Is'nt astrology forbidden? Dunno what you all make of all this.

Blessings
DeeDee

Hi DeeDee

the biggest problem in the end times issue is that people think because the bible says we will know the season of Jesus return that we will be able to approximate the time.

Yet,  even approximating the time contradicts the instruction to always live as if this day could come at any time and that no one but the father knows.

the debates range from saying christ has already returned, to all kinds of predictions based on natural occurances, 911, etc.

The reality is that in the days of noah, no one could really say when the time of destruction was upon them till it was upon them.

There is no other reason for the bible to tell us to live in expectation of Jesus at any moment if it was not to tell us that we must live so that we end up to be noah and his family on the ark and not those that went to through the wide gate of destruction.


Hope that helps.

[martincisneros]

I think South Africans are more open to the UR message as we do not have IMO fire and Brimstone Preachers here like John Hagee.

I wasn't aware that Ray McCauley believed in that rapture frenzie nonsense.  Ah well.  He's a good pastor otherwise.  I hope he's gotten back together with his wife.  Last I heard about them, they were separated but hopeful of a reconciliation.

Please take John Hagee off of our hands and move him to Africa.  Please!  Please!!  Please!!!  I'm begging you to take these ET preachers to Africa and let them, uh....hold revival meetings there. :icon_jokercolor:

They'll save your economy like they've saved ours, I promise. :laughing7:

Africa should take John Hagee as foreign ambassador from Hell. :thumbsup:

[Nathan]

How much freer the church would be if they just laid down these preconceptions of what the men in our ancestories taught when dealing with the end time expectations.  On one hand . . .Jesus clearly taught that we aren't to worry about what's to happen tomorrow, it'll take care of itself when it gets here . . .yet out the other side of their mouth, they ingrain this fear of not being ready for what you can't see coming.  Then they take passages out of context that have nothing to do at all with our future, but everything to do with the end "of that age". 

And for me, the reason why Jesus said not even the Son knew the hour . . .think about it . . . go through your current understanding as to who Christ is . . .he and the Father are "one" if you've seen the Father, you've seen the son.  the son only does what he does on the earth because it's what he's seen the Father has already completed in the spirit.  You can't come to the Father unless you enter through the Son . . .gives you a pretty complete picture they aren't to be divided or separated. 

But then the doctrine comes in the there is one thing that God is holding back from Jesus . . Jesus knows all things "except" that one thing about the most precious cargo that will come into completion where the body will finally be fully reconnected with the Head.  "Jesus, I want you to cross over into the physical realm and sacrifice yourself once and for all so our kids can fully dwell in us and us in them . .but I'm not going to tell you "when" that's going to happen, you just go down there and get yourself killed for the cause. . ."

That's an extreme to some degree, but really,  what would be the reasoning behind why God would know and Jesus wouldn't?  It makes no sense.  Logically or spiritually either one.  But . . . . if we were to leave it in the context where it was said and realize he's not talking about the end of the world thousands or fill in the bland to suit your timeline  . .of years later.  But that he's talking about the end of the age THEN.

What age?  The old covenant system . .that's what A.D. 70 and all the events immediately before and after that was all about.  It was the removal of old system to make way for the arrival of the New.  And the reason why Jesus didn't even know was because . .according to history . . .what started it was men . . .it was the warring within the religious sects that brought the end into reality.  Jesus didn't know becuase that was something that man would initiate . . .God's plan is that all men will bow their knee and every tongue will confess . .and that the old system is removed to make way for the new.  But his will was that men would come to this plan voluntarily . . . choosing yay or nay was left up to them as to whether or not to be in his will. 

But man can not over-ride the plan.  Whether they will to or not to be a part of the plan of redemption does not change the fact that all men are redeemed.  They can not undo what has been physically done, let alone spiritually.  The phrase "second coming" isn't even in the Bible anyway.  Personally, I believe the second coming took place in the upper room.  There was another coming at the baptism of Cornelius' house.  There was a coming of the Lord in Peter's dream that led to that.  Paul experienced many "comings" of Christ as he went out with his brand of the Gospel.

Jesus "has" come, he "is" come and he "will" come . . .that's why God tried to just keep it simple with Moses and called himself "I AM". 

This is becoming a pet peeve with me . .this rapture thing  .. the church is so frantic over this thing.  The logic of it is so out of whack but I sense I'm preaching to the choir on this one.  I'm not one to agree that there is nothing left that the Scriptures prophesied about . .but I do believe the majority of them . . .like . . .90% of them are accomplished and I also think the percentage is close to that where people continue to take those things out of their original context.  This generation of church-goers and church-leaders use words to proclaim that Christ comes first . .but in their hearts, it's all about "me" and Christ is coming back to "this" generation . . .

I'll also throw this out . . the two witnesses . .. Revelation states who they are . . .

Revelation 11
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.  4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Truly . . let Scripture interpret itself . . .it's got nothing to do with Moses . . .Elijah . . Enoch . .or any other man of flesh before us . . .well . . .actually there is one that is one of the witnesses . . .

Zechariah 4
2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:  3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Same two trees as was in Revelation . . . who are they??  The end of the chapter . . .
11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?  13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

Who are the two anointed ones?  Angels?  No . .they are created, but not anointed . . at least not in this sense.  God is the throne . . .and the SPIRIT caused Mary to concieve the CHRIST.  In my eyes . .the two anointed ones are just that, Christ and the Spirit.

[WhiteWings]

And for me, the reason why Jesus said not even the Son knew the hour . . .think about it . . .

I'll try...  :laughing7:

But those who have build whole theories about the end times often answer with something like:
We don't know the hour but by the signs given (from Revelation) we (can) know the year/season.

[Zeek]

And for me, the reason why Jesus said not even the Son knew the hour . . .think about it . . .

I'll try...  :laughing7:

But those who have build whole theories about the end times often answer with something like:
We don't know the hour but by the signs given (from Revelation) we (can) know the year/season.

at the time of Matthew 24 being written, the hour wasn't known, but by the time John wrote in I John, see what he says


1Jo 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 

[onlytruth]

has anyone ever read preston eby's take on astrology-its excellent.
God has written his story in the skies-and the study of the heavens is an awesome way to understand the entire history from begginning to end.
blessings everyone :icon_king:

[rosered]

Nope.

I have the book on my bookshelf for a year I think and haven"t even openend it.
I keep finding other books. Often by accident. Yesterday I ordered a few extra for about $3.00 a piece.

LOL you sound like me. I have so much reading material in pdf. format that I doubt I will be able to get thru it all by the next millenium lol.

  Oh, Dee Dee  you are too cute sis !  Same here a millenium to get through  ha ha ha !!
I have tons of reading material    mostly the greek and hebrew translations
  You would think I would be fluent in that by now , NO WAY THOUGH!
  It is HARD to study and boring to me  , I have given it  up

  What good is  that knowledge without Love ?   loving  and practicing to love everyone is far more important  now , to me anyways 

  Love conquers all  :winkgrin: :HeartThrob:

[DeeDee]

Oh, Dee Dee  you are too cute sis !  Same here a millenium to get through  ha ha ha !!
I have tons of reading material    mostly the greek and hebrew translations
  You would think I would be fluent in that by now , NO WAY THOUGH!
  It is HARD to study and boring to me  , I have given it  up

  What good is  that knowledge without Love ?   loving  and practicing to love everyone is far more important  now , to me anyways 

  Love conquers all

Yes sis, I have to agree with you! The thing that has helped me the most is to look at God thru the eyes of LOVE and see everything with LOVE in it.

:thumbsup:

[rosered]

 

We are to always be ready ,
  that what the Bible says all the time  in the NEW TESTAMENT [WITNESS]

  the two witnesses to me   are the Old and New Testament   which are the Spirit and Truth [Word ]
  I spiritualize everything , so this makes alot of people  ticked  at me
  I am used to it now   and   the way the Spirit taught me to understand 
no one knows the end [time] is because  it is an Individual work  on each one He has mercy on or who He hardens as He Wills/ desires ,
  grace means unmerited/undeserving  favor  and that grace is the begining of a new life in Christ  we are measured/judged with what we have  to be given more or taken away what we think we have ....
all these things in Matt 24  happen in this generation [ born of God ]
  that applies to all times for me , because the Word of God is perpetual

as well as eternal /always    that is why we are to be ready and waiting always on the Lord  salvation is God /though ChristJesus  , How can everyone all this time have the Word of God fulfilled as it is written  and applied to them  if it were not Individually  meant ?
  Like I said I spiritualize His Word and alot of folks dont understand my speech ... :HeartThrob: God bless you with more of Him
  this is only  my understanding  and somthing I have considered  and hope we all can consider as well ................

[jabcat]

 

We are to always be ready ,
  that what the Bible says all the time  in the NEW TESTAMENT [WITNESS]

  the two witnesses to me   are the Old and New Testament   which are the Spirit and Truth [Word ]
  I spiritualize everything , so this makes alot of people  ticked  at me
  I am used to it now   and   the way the Spirit taught me to understand 
no one knows the end [time] is because  it is an Individual work  on each one He has mercy on or who He hardens as He Wills/ desires ,
  grace means unmerited/undeserving  favor  and that grace is the begining of a new life in Christ  we are measured/judged with what we have  to be given more or taken away what we think we have ....
all these things in Matt 24  happen in this generation [ born of God ]
  that applies to all times for me , because the Word of God is perpetual

as well as eternal /always    that is why we are to be ready and waiting always on the Lord  salvation is God /though ChristJesus  , How can everyone all this time have the Word of God fulfilled as it is written  and applied to them  if it were not Individually  meant ?
  Like I said I spiritualize His Word and alot of folks dont understand my speech ... :HeartThrob: God bless you with more of Him
  this is only  my understanding  and somthing I have considered  and hope we all can consider as well ................

I like it  :bigGrin:.  You and Nathan's recent thoughts wrt the spiritual aspects of the Word has been a blessing to me.   :thumbsup:.

[jabcat]

has anyone ever read preston eby's take on astrology-its excellent.
God has written his story in the skies-and the study of the heavens is an awesome way to understand the entire history from begginning to end.
blessings everyone :icon_king:

I've read at least some if not all of it.  I must say it's very interesting...also his "law of circularity" is fabulous.  I've been so conditioned to think negatively about astrology, so I'm not quite completely "there" on some of it, but it is intrigueing.