"Hell was created for the devil and other fallen angels".

[Kevin]

I have a study i have been working on for sometime.
The chronology of the adversary.
I don't know where the inspiration came from.
Please keep in mind i am not a scholar.
Would it fit in this thread.?

"the greatest compliment you can give satan, is, he does not exist!." paraphrased.
Live spelled backward.

k

[WhiteWings]

Kevin,

I have no idea it fits here because I don't know the contents.

In this thread or another thread.... I would like to read it.

I think there is an ever greater comment for satan.
He exits and steals 95% of the souls out of teh hands of Father/Son/HS and they can do nothing to stop him. => ET

[ChuckK3]

Again though - the Greek "evil" in this verse (Kakos) just means "bad" as in troublesome, injurious, pernicious, destructive, baneful. So again "The love of money is the cause of all sorts of calamity". It's so simple (as is the "Lucifer" passage) but for some reason people take a simple verse and make it a sweeping all encompassing literal description for the actual "cause of all evil" in the world. Absolutely that is just false, that's not what it says. It just says if you covet you will "pierce yourselves through with many sorrows".  :sigh:

Byron,

  You're right about the Greek word "kakos" meaning destructive, etc.  That it's translated "evil" is arbitrary, like I said, evil eventually took on that kind of definition, quite possibly as a slang use of the word.  Much in the same way "gehenna" has been translated as "hell". "Kakos" should no doubt be translated as "diabolical", or like you said, "destructive".

   Click on the link below to see Gary's article on the Etymology of the word "Evil".

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-EtymologyOfTheWordEvil.html


  I can think of many English words that took on new meanings in the last century, even though those meanings don't comply with the word's etymology.  "Queer" is one word that comes to mind here.  Originally it merely meant "odd" or even "peculiar", without the homosexual connotations that it has today.

  Gary does have a teaching on the modern use of English words that in old times were not used by the definitions that they are used today.

Chuck

[WhiteWings]

Gary does have a teaching on the modern use of English words that in old times were not used by the definitions that they are used today.

Do you have link to that document? Or a name?


BTW Kakos is also an evil giant from Greek mythology:
http://www.theoi.com/Gigante/GiganteKakos.html

[ChuckK3]

Gary does have a teaching on the modern use of English words that in old times were not used by the definitions that they are used today.

Do you have link to that document? Or a name?


BTW Kakos is also an evil giant from Greek mythology:
http://www.theoi.com/Gigante/GiganteKakos.html

White Wings,

     Go to the Tentmaker bookstore.  There are a lot of teachings on cassette tapes or CD.

The teachings I have in mind you might want to check out are:

A Bible Study
A Word About The Word
Bible Problems
Bible Translations
English Bible History


There's also an MP3 CD with just about all of Gary's teachings for the same price as about 5 cassettes.

Chuck

[Molly]

I have a study i have been working on for sometime.
The chronology of the adversary.
I don't know where the inspiration came from.
Please keep in mind i am not a scholar.
Would it fit in this thread.?

"the greatest compliment you can give satan, is, he does not exist!." paraphrased.
Live spelled backward.

k

I'd like to see it Kevin.  Please post it.

[Molly]

Again though - the Greek "evil" in this verse (Kakos) just means "bad" as in troublesome, injurious, pernicious, destructive, baneful. So again "The love of money is the cause of all sorts of calamity". It's so simple (as is the "Lucifer" passage) but for some reason people take a simple verse and make it a sweeping all encompassing literal description for the actual "cause of all evil" in the world. Absolutely that is just false, that's not what it says. It just says if you covet you will "pierce yourselves through with many sorrows".  :sigh:

What if your love of money is causing that kind of calamity on others?  For instance,what if you are starting wars which are going to kill people and destroy their lives just so you can be richer?  Isn't that the very definition of evil?

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Kevin... Welcome to TM  :welcome:

"the greatest compliment you can give satan, is, he does not exist!." paraphrased.
Live spelled backward.

k

I don't think anyone can Biblically argue that "satan" doesn't exist... the thing that CAN be argued is "what" ..."satan"... actually ...IS...

In ENGLISH, the word "LIVE" is coincidently "EVIL" spelled backward... But this is not prevalent in and amongst the myriads of other languages on the Earth...

Much as the ENGLISH word "DOG" is "GOD" spelled backwards, ...is hardly SPIRITUALLY significant...  :dontknow:

Or that "WOW" is "MOM" ...upside down - eh?  ...  :laughing7:

peacE...
willieH    :angel5:

[willieH]

I have a study i have been working on for sometime.
The chronology of the adversary.
I don't know where the inspiration came from.
Please keep in mind i am not a scholar.
Would it fit in this thread.?

"the greatest compliment you can give satan, is, he does not exist!." paraphrased.
Live spelled backward.

k

I'd like to see it Kevin.  Please post it.

Me too!  I'd love to see this study of yours on the "chronology of the Adversary", Kevin...  :dontknow:

peacE...
willieH    :angel5:

[firstborn888]

Click on the link below to see Gary's article on the Etymology of the word "Evil".

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-EtymologyOfTheWordEvil.html

   I can think of many English words that took on new meanings in the last century, even though those meanings don't comply with the word's etymology.  "Queer" is one word that comes to mind here.  Originally it merely meant "odd" or even "peculiar", without the homosexual connotations that it has today.

   Gary does have a teaching on the modern use of English words that in old times were not used by the definitions that they are used today.

:thumbsup:

[firstborn888]

Helel was a Babylonian / Canaanite god who was the son of another Babylonian / Canaanite god named Shahar.

And what exactly do you think the religion of satan is?

What do you think it is?

Remember the head of the horrible statue in Daniel 2?  The head represented Babylon--the mind of satan.  The Babylonian religion is alive and well to this day.

But satan is not the formal name of any person. It's just a term which means adversary. People are called "adversaries" throughout scripture - including Peter. It's the exact same word. It just means 'opposer'.

Do you really think some random man, even a king, can lay low the nations?  Nations is translated 'gentiles.'
So are the gentiles laid low because of a man or because of a dark spiritual force? 

World conquering nations are not random men or Kings. The most high gives domination to whosoever He wills and trust me - history has proven they indeed laid low all the other nations. Remember Rome? That big gold headed dude is not and entity named 'opposer'. "He" represents the four world dominating Kingdoms.

Ezek 28:16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.

And exactly how do you think satan operates in this world?  Remember Jesus and the moneychangers?  What are we told?  Money is the root of all evil.   The root of our tree is Christ.  But the root of this tree is satan, represented by his spiritual currency--money. 

If this is referring to the pre-Adamic, prehistoric first sin/rebellion in 'heaven' then who is 'satan' trading with? Is he dealing drugs to rebellious angels/future demons? Are they beating up the good angels for interfering? ("you were filled with violence")? I'm not following your reasoning about this.

so that we can keep a myth about Lucifer that no one prior to the second century had any idea of? A myth which no New Testament author even vaguely referred too?

When did satan become a myth?   I must have missed that, especially because he becomes more apparent in the world every day.  Wait till you see what's coming next!  He'll make a believer of you, yet. 

I believe there are many adversaries in the world. Which "he" (adversary) are you referring to?

You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (NIV)

It is suggested that this is referencing Satan since these ambitions clearly exceed the reach of any human ruler. But of course - they exceed the reach of Satan also. Besides, delusions of grandeur are not uncommon among earthly rulers. We must remember that these and other verses are filled with poetic language. 

Making himself like the Most High, making himself higher than God, --this is exactly what satan hopes to achieve.  And, he inspires his followers to think they can achieve this, too.

...ye shall be as gods...

But, it takes a rebellion to be as gods, and, if the rebellion succeeds, you are now higher than God because you've beaten him.  That's the thinking involved.  It's shameful and sick but it's real. 

Jesus said "You are gods" no rebellion needed. It was king Nebuchadnezzar who said "Look at this mighty kingdom I have built for my glory by my power". God's response is basically "No, I give it to whomsoever I will".

One thing has to be clear here--satan knows God is real, but the men following satan don't.  They are just looking for an easy vehicle to power, and, for that, they have sold their souls.

Matthew 16
26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Sounds like more western folklore. Where in scripture does anyone 'sell their soul to the devil'?

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Byron!  :cloud9:

Helel was a Babylonian / Canaanite god who was the son of another Babylonian / Canaanite god named Shahar.

And what exactly do you think the religion of satan is?

What do you think it is?

Remember the head of the horrible statue in Daniel 2?  The head represented Babylon--the mind of satan.  The Babylonian religion is alive and well to this day.

But satan is not the formal name of any person. It's just a term which means adversary. People are called "adversaries" throughout scripture - including Peter. It's the exact same word. It just means 'opposer'.

Do you really think some random man, even a king, can lay low the nations?  Nations is translated 'gentiles.'
So are the gentiles laid low because of a man or because of a dark spiritual force? 

World conquering nations are not random men or Kings. The most high gives domination to whosoever He wills and trust me - history has proven they indeed laid low all the other nations. Remember Rome? That big gold headed dude is not and entity named 'opposer'. "He" represents the four world dominating Kingdoms.

Ezek 28:16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.

And exactly how do you think satan operates in this world?  Remember Jesus and the moneychangers?  What are we told?  Money is the root of all evil.   The root of our tree is Christ.  But the root of this tree is satan, represented by his spiritual currency--money. 

If this is referring to the pre-Adamic, prehistoric first sin/rebellion in 'heaven' then who is 'satan' trading with? Is he dealing drugs to rebellious angels/future demons? Are they beating up the good angels for interfering? ("you were filled with violence")? I'm not following your reasoning about this.

so that we can keep a myth about Lucifer that no one prior to the second century had any idea of? A myth which no New Testament author even vaguely referred too?

When did satan become a myth?   I must have missed that, especially because he becomes more apparent in the world every day.  Wait till you see what's coming next!  He'll make a believer of you, yet. 

I believe there are many adversaries in the world. Which "he" (adversary) are you referring to?

You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (NIV)

It is suggested that this is referencing Satan since these ambitions clearly exceed the reach of any human ruler. But of course - they exceed the reach of Satan also. Besides, delusions of grandeur are not uncommon among earthly rulers. We must remember that these and other verses are filled with poetic language. 

Making himself like the Most High, making himself higher than God, --this is exactly what satan hopes to achieve.  And, he inspires his followers to think they can achieve this, too.

...ye shall be as gods...

But, it takes a rebellion to be as gods, and, if the rebellion succeeds, you are now higher than God because you've beaten him.  That's the thinking involved.  It's shameful and sick but it's real. 

Jesus said "You are gods" no rebellion needed. It was king Nebuchadnezzar who said "Look at this mighty kingdom I have built for my glory by my power". God's response is basically "No, I give it to whomsoever I will".

One thing has to be clear here--satan knows God is real, but the men following satan don't.  They are just looking for an easy vehicle to power, and, for that, they have sold their souls.

Matthew 16
26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Sounds like more western folklore. Where in scripture does anyone 'sell their soul to the devil'?

:goodpost: Brother B... I enjoyed it thoroughly!   :happyclap:

peacE...
willieH    :angel5:

[Molly]

But satan is not the formal name of any person. It's just a term which means adversary. People are called "adversaries" throughout scripture - including Peter. It's the exact same word. It just means 'opposer'

Jesus isn't calling Peter 'satan.'   Jesus is speaking to a spirit that is speaking through Peter, just as he spoke to demons within people directly before he exorcised them.  Satan can enter into men and speak through them.  The spirit, the demon, is not the man.

Jesus said "You are gods" no rebellion needed. It was king Nebuchadnezzar who said "Look at this mighty kingdom I have built for my glory by my power". God's response is basically "No, I give it to whomsoever I will".

The rebellion happened in the garden, and then, they were kicked out of the garden, lest they live forever.

But once outside, the rebellion continues, which god will you serve?  Will you serve God or mammon?

Sounds like more western folklore. Where in scripture does anyone 'sell their soul to the devil'?

Satan offers Jesus the whole world if only he will bow down and worship him.   That is a transaction being offered.  You buy the world with your soul.   You get the world but satan gets your worship and your soul.  So how do you profit? Jesus asks.  Some variation of that transaction is offered to men every day of the week.

[Molly]

World conquering nations are not random men or Kings. The most high gives domination to whosoever He wills and trust me - history has proven they indeed laid low all the other nations. Remember Rome? That big gold headed dude is not and entity named 'opposer'. "He" represents the four world dominating Kingdoms.

The important thing about that horrible image of a man in Daniel 2 is that it is one body.  It has head, chest,  loins, arms, legs--and it represents one.

The head of gold is Babylon.  Babylon never went away.  It is the head of the horrible image.  It is the mind of satan.  The last kingdom, Rome, never went away.   It is still here with us with feet that are part iron and part clay.

That is the enemy.  The image of a man enervated by the power of satan, acting as one body.

It has no redemptive qualities and is fitted for total destruction.

But we have the mind of Christ.

[firstborn888]

But satan is not the formal name of any person. It's just a term which means adversary. People are called "adversaries" throughout scripture - including Peter. It's the exact same word. It just means 'opposer'

Jesus isn't calling Peter 'satan.'   Jesus is speaking to a spirit that is speaking through Peter, just as he spoke to demons within people directly before he exorcised them.  Satan can enter into men and speak through them.  The spirit, the demon, is not the man.

  Peter had a carnal mindset (a goal of preserving Jesus' physical life) and so was operating as an adversary to God's plan. That's the reality of it. If you believe that Peter became demon possessed for that moment, I guess that's your right to do so. Men are called 'adversary' in many places and it's the same word translated 'satan' in other places. It's a case where church tradition has created an entire culture based on a faulty premise.

Jesus said "You are gods" no rebellion needed. It was king Nebuchadnezzar who said "Look at this mighty kingdom I have built for my glory by my power". God's response is basically "No, I give it to whomsoever I will".

The rebellion happened in the garden, and then, they were kicked out of the garden, lest they live forever.

I was addressing 'Lucifer's fall' and so you must believe in a pre-garden rebellion in 'heaven' by a great arcangel named satan, right? My question is - how did he become prideful and corrupt through widespread trade and violence in heaven? That doesn't make any sense. It was the Babylonian king who said "I will be like the most high" a sentiment similar to Nebuchadnezzar's. The Isaiah and Ezek. passages have nothing to do with a fallen arcangel except in church tradition.

But once outside, the rebellion continues, which god will you serve?  Will you serve God or mammon?

So I was right! Eve did it for the money  :sigh:

Sounds like more western folklore. Where in scripture does anyone 'sell their soul to the devil'?

Satan offers Jesus the whole world if only he will bow down and worship him.   That is a transaction being offered.  You buy the world with your soul.   You get the world but satan gets your worship and your soul.  So how do you profit? Jesus asks.  Some variation of that transaction is offered to men every day of the week.

Daniel 10:17 Then Daniel answered and said before the king, Let thy gifts be to thyself, and give thy rewards to another; yet I will read the writing unto the king, and make known to him the interpretation. 18 O thou king, the most high God gave Nebuchadnezzar thy father a kingdom, and majesty, and glory, and honour:  19 And for the majesty that he gave him, all people, nations, and languages, trembled and feared before him: whom he would he slew; and whom he would he kept alive; and whom he would he set up; and whom he would he put down. 20 But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride, F46 he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him

Evil, carnal (ie: satanic/adversarial) thoughts lie and promise you the world, but they can't deliver! See the above for the ID of the ONLY one who has that ability and power. Don't believe the father of lies when he promises something  :happygrin: (It's most likely a lie)

[Craig]

If money was/is the root of evil God wouldn't have blessed so many of the 'good guys' in the Bible with large wealth...

You are correct! It is a fact that people are ignorant when they confess that money is the root of evil.

In fact, it is the love of 'fill in the blank if it is not God' is the root of all evil. Money can be and has been idol for many, and they fear unjustly having it because they are unaware or fearful of their attachment to it because some wingnut or corrupt wealthy individual who just wants to steal from them, that "money is the root of all evil."

That means, we can be good stewards of worldly wealth without ever loving it or having it be our master. For those who are faithful, He blesses with much. It sure is a blessing from God to be wealthy in everything, because every good and perfect gift comes from our Father.

[Molly]

If money was/is the root of evil God wouldn't have blessed so many of the 'good guys' in the Bible with large wealth...

You are correct! It is a fact that people are ignorant when they confess that money is the root of evil.

In fact, it is the love of 'fill in the blank if it is not God' is the root of all evil. Money can be and has been idol for many, and they fear unjustly having it because they are unaware or fearful of their attachment to it because some wingnut or corrupt wealthy individual who just wants to steal from them, that "money is the root of all evil."

That means, we can be good stewards of worldly wealth without ever loving it or having it be our master. For those who are faithful, He blesses with much. It sure is a blessing from God to be wealthy in everything, because every good and perfect gift comes from our Father.

1And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

2And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

3Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.

4Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

5Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.

6Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

7The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

8The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

9The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

10And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.

11And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

12The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

13And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

14And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

15But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

16Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field...


--Deut 28

[WhiteWings]

Men are called 'adversary' in many places and it's the same word translated 'satan' in other places.

I checked some verses.
When the root word is translated "The advesary" it always seems to point to Satan, Devil, Superhuman
Without the word "the" it points towards a human unless the verse context show different. => 1 Peter 5:8

<4567> Satana/j (Satanas)
Meaning: the adversary, Satan,  i.e. the devil
Origin: of Heb. or. 7854
Usage: Satan(35), Satan's(1).

Revelation 20:7  And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Revelation 20:2  And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
2 Thessalonians 2:9  hat is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

<476> avnti,dikoj (antidikos)
Meaning: an opponent, adversary
Origin: from 473 and 1349
Usage: adversary(1), opponent(3), opponent at law(1).

Lamentations 4:12  The kings of the earth did not believe, Nor did any of the inhabitants of the world, That the adversary and the enemy Could enter the gates of Jerusalem.
Psalm 108:12  Oh give us help against the adversary, For deliverance by man is in vain.

<07854> !j'f' (satan) (966b)
Meaning: adversary, also the name of the superhuman adversary of God
Origin: of unc. der.
Usage: accuser(m)(1), adversary(8), Satan(18).

1 Kings 11:14   Then the LORD raised up an adversary to Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he was of the royal line in Edom.
2 Samuel 19:22  David then said, "What have I to do with you, O sons of Zeruiah, that you should this day be an adversary to me?
1 Peter 5:8  Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

<06696b> rWc (tsur) (849a)
Meaning: to show hostility to, treat as foe
Origin: a prim. root
Usage: adversary(1), attack(1), harass(2).

Exodus 23:22   .... then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

[Molly]

So I was right! Eve did it for the money 

Eve did it for whatever advantage satan was offering her at the time--ye shall be as gods.

That sounds good to her--but God has already told Adam, and Adam has told her, that they will die in the day they eat from that tree--and she chooses to listen to the lies of satan, instead.

Do you really think Eve got this idea about being as gods out of her own head?  Where would she get that understanding herself?  She was totally clueless and deceived.  But, that part was true.  The problem was the price that would have to be paid for that was too high--death.

Sounds like more western folklore. Where in scripture does anyone 'sell their soul to the devil'?

That is the deal that satan makes--all of this [world] will be yours if you will only bow down and worship me.  Bowing down to satan is losing your soul.  Jesus asks,  What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?   So it is a type of transaction--your soul for the world. 

Peter had a carnal mindset (a goal of preserving Jesus' physical life) and so was operating as an adversary to God's plan. That's the reality of it. If you believe that Peter became demon possessed for that moment, I guess that's your right to do so. Men are called 'adversary' in many places and it's the same word translated 'satan' in other places. It's a case where church tradition has created an entire culture based on a faulty premise.

There are other cases where Peter acts in opposition to Jesus, but Jesus does not call him 'satan.'  Peter denies Jesus (satan is going to sift you).   Peter cuts off the ear of the centurion--Jesus reverses the action by healing it.  But only once does Jesus call Peter 'satan'---and that is when satan speaks through Peter to tempt Christ not to go to the cross.   Jesus is not speaking to Peter, he's speaking to Satan.

21From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

--Mat 16


This is a spirit which is entering Peter, as it entered Judas later.



3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

4And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.

--Luke 22

[Kevin]

From Kevin:

At this time I believe satan, adversary, etc. is a spirit, and not a physical being.?
A spirit that can influence, take over a being, a human for a time. 

I am not getting stuck on the translation or the word description or the O.T or N.T. examples.
And I do not doubt is a hierarchy, a leader, and the followers in this principality.

That being said, written,
In concept, how does the members of the forum see this question:
Is this a spirit, or a being?
In the "keep it simple" mode:
Kevin

Peter had a carnal mindset (a goal of preserving Jesus' physical life) and so was operating as an adversary to God's plan. That's the reality of it. If you believe that Peter became demon possessed for that moment, I guess that's your right to do so. Men are called 'adversary' in many places and it's the same word translated 'satan' in other places. It's a case where church tradition has created an entire culture based on a faulty premise.

23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. [/i]

--Mat 16
This is a spirit which is entering Peter, as it entered Judas later.

3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
--Luke 22

[firstborn888]

From Kevin:

At this time I believe satan, adversary, etc. is a spirit, and not a physical being.?
A spirit that can influence, take over a being, a human for a time. 

I am not getting stuck on the translation or the word description or the O.T or N.T. examples.
And I do not doubt is a hierarchy, a leader, and the followers in this principality.

That being said, written,
In concept, how does the members of the forum see this question:
Is this a spirit, or a being?
In the "keep it simple" mode:
Kevin

When this subject comes up (satan) I like to shoot down the obvious myths, the fallen angel concept ect. When we understand that the serpent was created by God for His purpose then I believe we are much closer to the truth than the 'great rebellion in heaven' theory. It's important to UR doctrine because "satan's" rebellion in heaven is really at the heart ET doctrine.

[WhiteWings]

When this subject comes up (satan) I like to shoot down the obvious myths, the fallen angel concept ect. When we understand that the serpent was created by God for His purpose then I believe we are much closer to the truth than the 'great rebellion in heaven' theory. It's important to UR doctrine because "satan's" rebellion in heaven is really at the heart ET doctrine.

Is it really that simple? Or better said: How can we know?
If the serpent was created for a purpuse (I see some verses pointing toward that) why does that automaticly mean there was no war in heaven?
Perhaps the war in Heaven was just as much predesigned/forseen as the actions of the snake?
That war can have some part in God master plan. Just as an example without the war satan would be alone. But now 1/3 of the angels have (also) fallen.
I'm not trying to turn this in another "what is an angel" thread.
I'm just trying to explain that perhaps we are given to little info to know. For example teh Bible is mainly about earth. But I think another Bible could be filled with events/information about Heaven.

[firstborn888]

But with the 1/3 of the angel's thing people take the book of the Revelation and try to apply it to past events to prop up a theory which there is really no basis for. "Heavenlies" = High Places. That's where the conflict was, not in God's perfect transcendent domain.

[Kevin]

Heven Strong's Concordance: "Sky",
Me: more than one, level.

Simple: nothing in this forum is., and that is good.
The Spirit of Truth teaches.

I am somewhat sure my head would explode if it was filled with all the answers.
All in due time.

Reminds me, ' I am wandering', this short story is very long, I'll make it very short.
2 times, when in spiritual battle with 2 different people at different times,

they glared that deep evil piercing look, like they really had me cornered, and said,
" Where is your god now"? I did not reply, did not feel I had to,
In my spirit, I heard, " He will be right on time".

k

[Kevin]

they glared that deep evil piercing look, like they really had me cornered, and said,
" Where is your god now"? I did not reply, did not feel I had to,
In my spirit, I heard, " He will be right on time".

Later on I saw, heard it in "Megeto", sp.

k