Soooo Many Verses!

[DeeDee]

Hi all. Okay now i know there are many, many bible verses in support of Universalism. That said tho there are also soooooooooo many that really really conflict with it. I know the main theme is to not see the words "forever" and "everlasting" as being such, but still these verses still scare me dizzy  :sigh:

Here are a few (I know they have probably been discussed and dealt with many times on these forums) that I just found. Probably others, too scared to go looking for them tho. Here are the ones I did find:

Daniel 12:2
Isaiah 66:24
Matthew 8:12 , 10:28 , 13:42 , 13:50 , 25:30
Revelation 14:11, 20:13-15 , Revelation 21:8
Mark 9:43-38
luke 16:24

Sooooooooooooooo scared. Even tho I feel in my heart I should'nt be. I dunno, I am just so confused.

Blessings
Dee

[WhiteWings]

My thoughts on it....

They are scary. They are intended to be scary. There will be suffering. There is hell. There is correction.
UR doesn't disagree on that point with ET.
Even worse I think everyone will go to hell. That includes all the great names in the Bible....
So UR teaches 100% while ET teaches "only" 95%.
The core difference is what hell really is. And the duration of it.
If you accept that you won't see every nasty verse as debunking UR.


DD, I'm gonna pick and choose a bit. Just like you did with your verses  :laughing7:
I think I picked the verse that scares you most.
But the same verse will also debunk your fears.

Revelation 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night....

Let's analyze it backwards. Bit more easy for me.

"no rest day nor night" => What ever is happening or done is happening without 'a break'

"ever and ever" => the Greek word is... aion.
Just like in the verses below:
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha .... suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.=> the cities stopped burning long ago.
Isaiah 34:9-10 .... shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever => Edom doesn't burn anymore

Sofar we have that some activity "in hell" is taking place on continious basis. The duration is unspecified. Theoretically it could be somewhere between 1 millisecond and a zillion centuries. I have reasons/hints to believe it won't be that extremly long. But for thing post that's not that important.

"Torment"
Whatever that means it won't be something nice. Otherwise it would be Heaven...  :laughing7:
The underlaying Greek word is: βασανίζω
basanizo {bas-an-id'-zo}
Meaning: 
- to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal
- to question by applying torture
- to torture
- to vex with grievous pains (of body or mind), to torment
- to be harassed, distressed
- of those who at sea are struggling with a head wind

As said I'm doing some picking and choosing. I believe the blue meaning is the correct one.
From now on I will just assume aion means 1 month. The only reason is to make explaining a little easier. Not that I had a vision or any other proof of a duration!

So we are tested for a month without a moment rest.

Revelation 14:10   .... tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Looks like Jesus and the good angles are watching/monitoring whatever is happening.
Perhaps they are looking if the gold (we) has become pure enough to enter Heaven.....?

Malachi 3:2  for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Look at a video of a refinary. Or you can very easy see/test what I mean. Get some (old) lead and melt it. You will see that things will start floating on the molten lead. Most of the time that will be sand. You can wipe that of with a stick. And beneath you see shining lead.
Pure lead.

1 Corinthians 11:32  and being judged by the Lord, we are chastened ....         => We are judged by being chastened

If you look at the Greek word for judged you see it mean "Approved"
Chastened means to "to train" or "to correct"
So God is being nasty here. But He's not beating you senseless. But He is beating sense into you.

Titus 2:11-12  For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men, teaching us, that .... => Teaching is the grace of God.

God corrects His children by teaching them, so He can approve them with love
=> All Gods actions are part of his master plan to be able to offer every part of His creation happiness and eternal life.

[WhiteWings]

From another thread:

Okay the verse I meant was Matthew 10:28 - I understand most of the explantion on this passage except the "destroy soul" part. There are many many other passage that frighten me.

Matthew 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

First of all the word "able" doesn't say it will happen.
I'm quite sure this verse is already covered on this forum. Can't find it right now.
What I remember from it is that:
Destruction of the body: That's with weapons.
Destruction of the soul: False teachings.

So the verse simply states false teachings are far more destructive than weapons.

[Kevin]

If it comes down to this, a type of temporary hell. Which I don't believe.
but if I am wrong:
:dontknow:
I want to be in the short Line.

k

[martincisneros]

I used to think that I could not go on
And life was nothing but an awful song
But now I know the meaning of true love
I'm leaning on the everlasting arms

If I can see it, then I can do it
If I just believe it, there's nothing to it

I believe I can fry
I believe I can touch the sky
I think about it every night and day
Spread my wings and fry away
I believe I can soar
I see me running through that open door
I believe I can fry
I believe I can fry
I believe I can fry

See I was on the verge of breaking down
Sometimes silence can seem so loud
There are miracles in life I must achieve
But first I know it starts inside of me, oh

If I can see it, then I can do it
If I just believe it, there's nothing to it

I believe I can fry
I believe I can touch the sky
I think about it every night and day
Spread my wings and fry away
I believe I can soar
I see me running through that open door
I believe I can fry
I believe I can fry
I believe I can fry

Hey, cuz I believe in me, oh

If I can see it, then I can be it
If I just believe it, there's nothing to it

I believe I can fry
I believe I can touch the sky
I think about it every night and day
Spread my wings and fry away
I believe I can soar
I see me running through that open door
I believe I can fry
I believe I can fry
I believe I can fry

Hey, if I just spread my wings
I can fry
I can fry
I can fry, hey
If I just spread my wings
I can fry
Fry-eye-eye

[DeeDee]

Brian, you and I are definately birds of a feather and so glad that here we can flock together.

:boyheart: :bgdance:  :girlheart:

Dee