The Bible Is Confusing....

[Jerm]

A incident in one of my classes brought up some questions I've been having and need some help working through.  During my Romans class, which is actualy tought by a professor who teaches UR, one my classmates began to debate with the professor over the truthfulness of UR.  My classmate began quoting scripture after scripture, from different books of the Bible to back up his case.  My professor eventually told him to stop "hoping around" and reminded him that the church that the letter was written to (Rome, around 50 to 60 A.D.) most likely only had the Letter to the Romans and the Old Testament (maybe the Gospel of Mark, but not sure) and it obviously must have been enough for them to follow Christ and serve in the Kingdom.  This incident has, like I said, led to alot of questions, like why is so much emphasis placed on the Bible when the church during the first century seemed to get along just fine with out it (except for, of course, the Old Testament.)  Plus, why do so many Christians act like the Bible is the divine answer book/full explanation of theology?  I mean, if I recall correctly from history, most of the books of the NT were letters written at specific time, by a specific person, to a specific audience, under specific circumstances.  And this one I'm almost afraid to ask, but how do we know that the councils who put together the official Canon weren't wrong in their picks?  I know that many believe that the Sprit guided them in their choices of what books to put in, but still....It's just all very confusing.  These questions haven't shaken my faith in God or in Christ at all, but I have come to severly question whether we truly need the Bible as it is today.  In all honesty, the way it has been put together seems to do more harm than good.  Look at all of the denominations and varying theologies that are in the world of Christianity right now.  If the Bible is suppose to be the clear Word of God, why is there so much division on it?  I mean, people use to use the Bible to defend slavery for crying out loud!  It seems to me that alot of the problems we have today wouldn't exist if the Bible we had was, I don't know, shorter maybe? Or simpler?  I'm just very confused.  What do y'all think?

[rosered]

 

  Hi Jerm ,

   I do agree the Bible  can be confusing to the  carnal man [thinking]
  the literal letter of the Law Kills and its the Spirit that gives us life
  when the Lord  gives us the mind of Christ [annointing ]  we are able to See spirtually , and that  Is the gift of God to me
  the Bible  is a  huge  SWORD /WORD of division between   the literal mind [carnal] and the spiritual mind [Christ]  the two WAYS  the Sword  turns  kills and make alive ,, I am not sure this will help you at all , but I am still hoping bro 

[Taffy]

  Hi Jerm ,

   I do agree the Bible  can be confusing to the  carnal man [thinking]
  the literal letter of the Law Kills and its the Spirit that gives us life
  when the Lord  gives us the mind of Christ [annointing ]  we are able to See spirtually , and that  Is the gift of God to me
  the Bible  is a  huge  SWORD /WORD of division between   the literal mind [carnal] and the spiritual mind [Christ]  the two WAYS  the Sword  turns  kills and make alive ,, I am not sure this will help you at all , but I am still hoping bro 

:icon_flower:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Jerm... :hithere:

A incident in one of my classes brought up some questions I've been having and need some help working through.  During my Romans class, which is actualy tought by a professor who teaches UR, one my classmates began to debate with the professor over the truthfulness of UR.  My classmate began quoting scripture after scripture, from different books of the Bible to back up his case.  My professor eventually told him to stop "hoping around" and reminded him that the church that the letter was written to (Rome, around 50 to 60 A.D.) most likely only had the Letter to the Romans and the Old Testament (maybe the Gospel of Mark, but not sure) and it obviously must have been enough for them to follow Christ and serve in the Kingdom.

Here are a few question for the "challenger" of UR:

FIRST question I would present to this person challenging UR, is  ..."CHRIST was sent to SAVE the WORLD [Luke 19:10] which GOD so LOVED"... If the WORLD is not SAVED... then did CHRIST fail to accomplish that mission?"

SECOND question... John stated in John 1:29 to "behold the Lamb of God which taketh AWAY the sin of the WORLD"... Is this a lie?  ...And if He in fact TOOK AWAY the sin of the WORLD (paid for it IN FULL)..  What SIN is left to be responsible for? (don't get me wrong... if you SIN [which you WILL]... there will be consequences IN THIS LIFE for it, and those consequences, WILL bring suffering, and eventually will end in DEATH)

This incident has, like I said, led to alot of questions, like why is so much emphasis placed on the Bible when the church during the first century seemed to get along just fine with out it (except for, of course, the Old Testament.)  Plus, why do so many Christians act like the Bible is the divine answer book/full explanation of theology?  I mean, if I recall correctly from history, most of the books of the NT were letters written at specific time, by a specific person, to a specific audience, under specific circumstances.  And this one I'm almost afraid to ask, but how do we know that the councils who put together the official Canon weren't wrong in their picks?

Many pose this question bro... but do you really think that GOD has no CONTROL over His WORD in this world?  It comes close to bordering on blasphemy to believe that MEN have (exclusive of GOD's leading) decided what the "Canon" would contain... and then labeled that Canon, GOD's WORD...

I know that many believe that the Sprit guided them in their choices of what books to put in, but still....It's just all very confusing.  These questions haven't shaken my faith in God or in Christ at all, but I have come to severly question whether we truly need the Bible as it is today.  In all honesty, the way it has been put together seems to do more harm than good.  Look at all of the denominations and varying theologies that are in the world of Christianity right now.  If the Bible is suppose to be the clear Word of God, why is there so much division on it?

CHRIST, who was the WORD manifest in the flesh, even stated that there would be DIVISION over and concerning Him (the WORD)... The reason for DIVISIONS, is manifest according to the PURPOSES of GOD... not men...

Men will impose division, because they shall THINK themselves correct, and with their opinions, deduce you (using their views) as INCORRECT if you differ with them... :rolleye:

All because they are ADVERSE to the WORD... If you stand up with and FOR, the TRUTH, ...expect that ADVERSITY to come against you... and you will find yourself DIVIDED from them accordingly...

Men (foolishly) think they CONTROL everything... when quite the opposite is true... MEN control NOTHING...  GOD is in CONTROL of EVERYTHING... and MEN only do what GOD ordains that which they do...  (Rom 9:15-21)

GOD in His WORD (Prov 14:12 / 16:25) says:  There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof... the ways of DEATH...

So the "control" which is ESTEEMED and born of men, only brings about the conclusion of DEATH...

I mean, people use to use the Bible to defend slavery for crying out loud!  It seems to me that alot of the problems we have today wouldn't exist if the Bible we had was, I don't know, shorter maybe? Or simpler?  I'm just very confused.  What do y'all think?

I think you should not worry much over what others think... and just remain busy pursuing GOD on a personal basis, trusting that He is leading you where He wishes your understanding to be... and from there, continue to seek.

If you find the WORD of God too complex as a whole... then simplify that complexity in your TRUST... believing you shall KNOW what He decides you shall KNOW, and when you shall KNOW it...

I think the biggest problem with many Bible students, is that they feel they have to KNOW everything... instead of seeking the guidance of GOD, and specializing in the areas where He takes your heart...

Many people do this same thing in life... they wish to be the best at everything, and after all is said and done, really end up GOOD at NOTHING... 

They cook a little, ...play sports a little, ...fix the car a little, ...tinker on this instrument or that one, ...etc... and end up knowing a LITTLE about EVERYTHING, but KNOWING a LOT about NOTHING...

If GOD should want you to be a specialist about a given aspects of Biblical premises, then GO where you are drawn...

If you love the Old Testament and the pioneering aspects of it... then don't worry about knowing everthing PAUL teaches about in the NT... Be good at the portions of the WORD you LOVE...

You sound like a student in a Bible college... My first suggestion to you is to LEAVE it.  ...What Bible college did Peter go to?  Jerusalem Tech?  Or John, ...Bethlehem U?

The last thing a TRUE seeker of God needs is the tainted teachings of the various Seminaries... which only present the viewpoints of their individual "religion"...

If it were me, and I wished to be a student of the Hebrew or Greek languages, I would do so in colleges and/or via courses that do not have BIBLICAL opinions of these languages...  Then I will gain insight of the language without getting indoctrinated by any "beliefs" that the teacher might have...

Don't accept what men teach you... seek GOD as your teacher...

My  :2c:

peacE...
willieH   :happygrin:

[Pierac]

A incident in one of my classes brought up some questions I've been having and need some help working through.  During my Romans class, which is actualy tought by a professor who teaches UR, one my classmates began to debate with the professor over the truthfulness of UR.  My classmate began quoting scripture after scripture, from different books of the Bible to back up his case.  My professor eventually told him to stop "hoping around" and reminded him that the church that the letter was written to (Rome, around 50 to 60 A.D.) most likely only had the Letter to the Romans and the Old Testament (maybe the Gospel of Mark, but not sure) and it obviously must have been enough for them to follow Christ and serve in the Kingdom.  This incident has, like I said, led to alot of questions, like why is so much emphasis placed on the Bible when the church during the first century seemed to get along just fine with out it (except for, of course, the Old Testament.)  Plus, why do so many Christians act like the Bible is the divine answer book/full explanation of theology?  I mean, if I recall correctly from history, most of the books of the NT were letters written at specific time, by a specific person, to a specific audience, under specific circumstances.  And this one I'm almost afraid to ask, but how do we know that the councils who put together the official Canon weren't wrong in their picks?  I know that many believe that the Sprit guided them in their choices of what books to put in, but still....It's just all very confusing.  These questions haven't shaken my faith in God or in Christ at all, but I have come to severly question whether we truly need the Bible as it is today.  In all honesty, the way it has been put together seems to do more harm than good.  Look at all of the denominations and varying theologies that are in the world of Christianity right now.  If the Bible is suppose to be the clear Word of God, why is there so much division on it?  I mean, people use to use the Bible to defend slavery for crying out loud!  It seems to me that alot of the problems we have today wouldn't exist if the Bible we had was, I don't know, shorter maybe? Or simpler?  I'm just very confused.  What do y'all think?

You are correct

Joh 5:38  "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent. "You search the Scriptures (O.T.) because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Now add the fact that 98% of the people could not even read in the first century!  :laughing7:

[martincisneros]

Now add the fact that 98% of the people could not even read in the first century!  :laughing7:

The Scriptures were read to people back then.  St. Paul instituted the same practice in the Churches that he founded.  And illiteracy wasn't anywhere near that bad among either the Jews or the Romans.  The problem then as today wasn't with the Scriptures but with commentaries and commentarians that were thought more authoritative than the Scriptures, or that supposedly the Scriptures weren't understandable without the extraneous baggage of both the [published] literalists and the [published] allegorizers.  Libraries back then were as common as public restrooms and roads.  Not all of them were as big as in some of the more well known cities, but it's even that way today where if I want a big library, I've got to leave Fort Worth, Texas and go to at least downtown Dallas, Texas.  The Scriptures are all we've got until the New Earth for rightly discerning the consistency of any spirit that we're dealing with and whether it's a spirit of AntiChrist or whether the Holy Spirit is speaking to us, in us, and through us.  I hate using an ET maxim, but with either limited duration future punishment or just the Hell of this life, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.  Life's DANGEROUS without the Holy Scriptures.  Everybody's got an opinion and the Scriptures indicate that few of them are worth anything so that it's just safest to do it all by the Book.  As George MacDonald said, one of the biggest problems with people ever understanding God's Word has been people trying to understand with no intention of doing what the Scriptures say.  Or wishy-washy intentions of "I'll obey tomorrow."  So, people wind up keeping the frogs for another night.  When it comes to obedience, Lord Jesus frequently gets the same answer that Moses got on when the frogs should be removed: "tomorrow." :dontknow:

[reFORMer]

97% of the people who say they've been born-again, believe the Bible and go to church regularly have never read the bible through even once.  How could you expect them to understand or agree about the Bible?

Many, if not most, aren't understanding enough to submit their minds to the fact it was written in Hebrew and Greek. Very little study and most will discover that they cannot lean with their full weight on the hireling translators who often pleased the titled among the religious bureaucracy. Yet they so often fight for something in English that isn't faithful to the original.

Another point already made I'll re-state.  It was God that confused the languages and divided the land at the tower of Babel, thus effectively breaking up the unity the people previously had.  If not, it would be a juggernaut, destroying all in it's path.  It is God's mercy when human government is not so well organized or when religious institutions of men can't come to a consensus but fight each other.  It keeps them off our backs!

Then too, God hides things.  The curious and carnal cannot enter.  "None of the wicked shall understand." (Dan 12:10)

[Pierac]

97% of the people who say they've been born-again, believe the Bible and go to church regularly have never read the bible through even once.  How could you expect them to understand or agree about the Bible?

Many, if not most, aren't understanding enough to submit their minds to the fact it was written in Hebrew and Greek. Very little study and most will discover that they cannot lean with their full weight on the hireling translators who often pleased the titled among the religious bureaucracy. Yet they so often fight for something in English that isn't faithful to the original.

Another point already made I'll re-state.  It was God that confused the languages and divided the land at the tower of Babel, thus effectively breaking up the unity the people previously had.  If not, it would be a juggernaut, destroying all in it's path.  It is God's mercy when human government is not so well organized or when religious institutions of men can't come to a consensus but fight each other.  It keeps them off our backs!

Then too, God hides things.  The curious and carnal cannot enter.  "None of the wicked shall understand." (Dan 12:10)

And they all said... Amen!

Paul

[Jerm]

Thanks for the insight.  I think you had a very good point martincisnero when you wrote "The problem then as today wasn't with the Scriptures but with commentaries and commentarians..."  This is where much of the the confusion comes into play, and to be honest, I do have a tendency to read commentaries by others more often than the actual Scriptures.  I guess I need to spend a little less time reading what others have to say and more time figuring it out for myself.  And willieH, you also had a good point in that I don't have to know EVERYTHING, I just need to let God lead me in my understanding of what He wants to reveal.

[rosered]

good question Jerm ,
  good posting from you all , I always  come away  with something of value , thats why I love coming to TM ! 

  We got to thank God for  such grace

and a place to '' gather '' in Him /His Name  :HeartThrob:
love ya all to pieces