Matthew 7:21-23

[Our Wings are Burning]

Matthew 7:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

When I first accepted Christian Universalism, I couldn't figure out what these verses meant or how they didn't imply eternal punishment.  I recently read that it just means that those who are not known are simply brought into age-during judgment.  If those who Jesus doesn't know depart from Him, how does this coincide with Revelation 14:10, where it is said that they "shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb?"

How can people depart from Jesus and yet be tormented in His presence?

[Molly]

How can people depart from Jesus and yet be tormented in His presence?

No access to his grace, peace, and rest?

Just look around you today.




... how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

--Mat 23


22Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

23Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

--Numbers 14

[Tony N]

Matthew 7:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

When I first accepted Christian Universalism, I couldn't figure out what these verses meant or how they didn't imply eternal punishment.  I recently read that it just means that those who are not known are simply brought into age-during judgment.  If those who Jesus doesn't know depart from Him, how does this coincide with Revelation 14:10, where it is said that they "shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb?"

How can people depart from Jesus and yet be tormented in His presence?

Please note that "he shall be tormented in fire and sulphur is concerning the beast in Revelation 14:9. He is the one tormented. The beast is tormented in Christ's presence.

Notice that the people who worshipped that beast and took an emblem on their forehead or on their hand, that the *fumes* of their torment is ascending for the eons of the eons (Rev.14:11). It does not mean that those who received the emblem are tormented for the eons of the eons but that the smoke ascends as a testimony to the day they died in torment.

When Christ comes back and tells the wicked in Israel: "Depart from Me" that is when He fulfills the prophecy which says:

Mat 13:41 The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness,