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[Lamentation]

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[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi Brian,

Unfortunatly,  it will be when God decides to allow you to fully believe this message that you will.  However, please do not see that as my excuse not to try, because it is often through this manner in which it DOES take place.


First and foremost let me say something very seriously to you.   There is no amount of anxiety or depression that will change anything that will happen concerning the truths of God.   So begin to dwell upon the fact that there is not a thing you can do about what God is going to do, whether he be a monster or whether he be our loving heavenly father that will never allow us to remain lost.  I realize that to some that might be counter productive, but as a person who has been blessed with huge strides in this area, the softening of the truth causes more long term damage that sneaks up on a person before they realize it.    Swallow some hard truth and read on dude.


Secondly,   the psychotic episode you experienced very well could be a result of a guilt complex that Christianity builds in a person.   This guilt complex is based upon displeasing the organization that is associated with anyone that you developed a relationship with in any church or churches you attended.   Quite seriously,  you are taught to adhere to the teachings and remain in unity to the group or God will get ya. You are taught that Christianity is equal to God, that they are one and the same.   They may not come right out and say it, but any one who expresses that they want to distance themselves from Christianity is labeled as someone who has followed the devil,  so you be the judge of that.  The reality of the episode is a detachment from  the people you know there, because it is a very real and painful emotional experience.   And co-dependance is a hard core reality to break.


Lastly, the process  to break free often involves getting angry (righteously) at the situation that has caused this, NOT THE PEOPLE.   Let me repeat NOT THE PEOPLE.   The people are in the same bondage you are.

Once you get angry at the situation, you can continue your journey where I can assure you that you will see your time in that bondage as the teachings of a Loving heavenly Father, that I can gaurantee you without any doubt whatsoever.


Ok, on to scripture.

I am not going to dwell upon a lot of scripture.  I am going to give you one scripture then I am going to give you a homework assignment to prove that when christians who believe in an eternal hell say "context" it is not a biblical context, but one of opinion.

1Timothy 2:4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.


ok, pay attention to each and every word of that verse, but  I do not want you to dwell on the word ALL but indeed make sure you focus upon the exact "WORDING".  Because the word ALL here is not what gives this verse the context.

What I want you to do  is find a biblical scripture that will change the context of this verse to read  "God does not Will that all mankind be saved, but ONLY those who have made a free will decision of their own to follow Christ"

The Christian explanation to this verse cannot be found in scripture.   They will give other scriptures but they will explain what it means with words the scriptures do not use.  This will be the justification used to say that a verses wording in the bible can be rightly changed.   It seriously is a theological loophole that is not grounded in the word of God,  think about it very seriously.  You will see.

Ok, begin your home work.    Seriously.


Take care brian, I look forward to more conversation

Paul

[BridgeBuilder]

Hi Brian,

First, let me say that I am not a Christian Universalist, but I think I may be able to provide some assistance to you, as I was able to release my fears of hell.

Having gone through some extreme anguish myself in the past, not so dissimilar to what you describe, to the point of dysfunction, even coming to the same conclusion that there was ONLY evil and ONLY hell, the best thing I can advise you to do is simply this:  Pray.  Ask God to show you the way.

And then I would like you to turn in your Bible to 1 Corinthians 13.  As you read, think about how a LOVING God, as described therein, who is "patient" and "kind" and "keeps no record of wrongs" could TRULY allow a place like a fiery hell to exist.  If ONLY hell existed, there would be NO Love in the world, and we KNOW that is NOT the case.  Even if ANY hell existed, there would be NO God.  Yet God IS - there is no doubt of that, and you know it.  And God is Love, just as we are told in 1 John 4:8.  Let God love you Brian, as much as you can.  I must admit I still have trouble letting God Love ME because of much the same fears you report from my own past.  It's a trust issue, and it takes a long time to get over such severe distrust.

You are going to be ok Brian.  You are not the first person this has happened to, not by a long shot.  I know of others who have experienced something similar.   Some call it "a spiritual emergency". 

I'll be praying for you Brian.  There is comfort in the Bible, but also fear, so be careful with it.  Try to focus on the LOVING verses right now, as just randomly opening to fear-based verses will NOT help you.  Think of all the LOVE you have seen in your life, not the evil, but the LOVE.  That's God.  And where there is LOVE, there is no hell, not for you, not for ANYONE.

In peace,
BridgeBuilder

[martincisneros]

Hi Brain,

Welcome to Tentmaker and thank you for telling us where you've been regarding all of this.  It all comes down to translational and contextual issues on why mainstream Christianity believes the way that they believe.  And I want to thank Paul Hazelwood and BridgeBuilder  for sharing what they've shared thus far with you.  You don't sound like you're ready for the Biblical proofs and the Biblical refutations of the myth of eternal separation from God.  Focus on the promises of the Word regarding God's love and the Scriptures that you're aware of thus far that indicate the Universal Restoration.  Focus on God's love for you and say it over and over again as you're laying in bed waiting to go to sleep: "God loves me.  God loves me.  God loves me......"  Focus on that every night as you're trying to get to sleep and just let the reality of that sink in on you, until the love of God is what you're the most conscious of, of anything in your life.  Then His equally commited love for others will be as easy to embrace.

We, at Tentmaker, love you and bless you in the Name of Jesus.



:hihat: I'm surprised I didn't catch such a big typo as I'd left on this post. Better late than never with the edit. :coolsmile:

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi Paul,

First, I'm not sure what you mean by softening of the truth.

Hi Brian,

What I was hoping to say was that ultimatly  God does what he wants and we hope that his Love means what we want it to mean.   If indeed God was a monster, we have to reconcile that there is nothing we can do about it.   The reason I point that out to people is that the fear people have over any aspect of God contradicts a fundamental truth in the bible when we are told to not worry about anything.  Now I am realistic enough to know that we all will.   :)
I probably didn't get my point across very well (my fault), so I will move on because at this point it may not even pertain to where you are at in your walk.


Secondly lets deal with the two verses you posted and it will go along with the task I asked you to do concerning the verse in my last post.

I really do not have the time right now to give a refutation of hell that would be any better than what you can find at the main website  http://www.tentmaker.org.   I do not see everything in the writings, but I find that I do not have any serious problems that would cause me to think that those writers are not properly trying to get the truth from the manuscripts.

With that said I will write the literal translations of the verses you posted, this is important to get a picture of how these verses are questionable in the translations that are used when supporting hell with them.


Matthew 25:46  "And shall-be-from-coming these into chastening eonian the yet just into life eonian

Revelations 20:10 "and the thru-caster the one-straying them was-cast into the lake of-the fire and sulfur  the where and the wild beast and the false-before-averer and they shall-be-being-ordealized of-day and of-night into the eons of the eons.


Now, this is not to show you that because you do not see the words forever and ever or everlasting that I have proven anything.  It is to set the stage for proper translation.


eonian is an adjective of eon.   While the dictionary is a reference, there is a grammer issue that needs to be addressed and it is evidence that forever and ever and everlasting should not be the proper translation.

First and foremost is the redundancy of forever and ever, considering the same word is translated  in the hell doctrine as  "forever"  then  "ever"   we have to consider the ridiculousness of saying  forever and forever.   And of course in english, forever and ever sounds ok to us, but it is not proper.   eons of the eons  defined as ages of time is proper.

Ages of time is universally recognized as having a beginning and an end.  the true length of time is irrevalent, because we are talking the difference between a really long time and  never ending.   


Secondly is that eonian is an adjective of eon,   an adjective cannot have a greater meaning than the noun it is modifying.  You cannot modify something having a beginning and and end to something not having a beginning and an end.   So eonian is  is properly translated to age bearing or for ages and ages.


ok, now how this relates to the verse I posted in the other reply.   Try to see how the use of forever, wrongly translated, would cause someone to twist the meaning of 1 timothy 2:4 in order to make it say something it does not.

Because brian,  if you do not change 1 timothy 2:4 at all, while keeping forever and everlasting in the verses you gave you have a contradiction that you cannot work around without adding or taking away from the word of God.   It is impossible.

Try it.

Take care

Paul

 

[firstborn888]

Welcome Brian!
   Glad you are here and look forward to sharing about God's love and grace...
- Byron

[ChuckK3]

Hi Brian,

Welcome to Tentmaker. :smile:

  I too have been agonized by the eternal torment doctrine, and have spent a whole lifetime battling psychiatric problems as a result of it.

    I would also eventually develop anxiety/panic attack issues, where I would suddenly feel a sense of doom.  I'm taking Xanax for my condition.

   I do know that the brain is a very complexed organ, and can store a lot of stuff that we have been exposed to over a lifetime.  It's very difficult to just shake off much of what we have been taught if it is stored in the back recesses of our brain, and our mind.  Sometimes the remedy to counteract negative influences is to introduce positive influences.  I have a large collection of UR teachings, many from Tentmaker and Gary Amirault.  When I get to where I start feeling anxious or fearful, I will often start playing some of Gary's teachings and I listen to them in my sleep.  I also find that my dreams are also more positive, even if they start out as potential nightmares.  I will often in my dreams find myself in a dreadful situation, only for something positive to happen and the dreadful event that had threatened me would diminish.   

   I do recommend the teachings available on cassette here at Tentmaker, and they even have a CD of just about all the Tentmaker teachings by Gary in mp3 format.  All of this is available at the Tentmaker bookstore.   Whether or not you listen to them in your sleep like I do is up to you.  But you will learn a lot from them, and of course you can listen while you are doing things that would forbid you to read, like drive a car for instance.

   I do pray that you find peace while you are learning that what you were taught in your youth was in error, and that you will know the truth that truly sets you free.

God bless,
Chuck

[Taffy]

A belated welcome Brian :icon_flower: