Many will come to Me in that day.....

[waitinontheLamb]

I am sure this portion of scripture has been discussed but I don't see it. Could anyone please point me to something that deals with those who are told "I never knew you" and then told to depart into the fire?

Thanks..

[nightflight]

I don't see how anyone can say Jesus taught the salvation of all.  Paul, yes, Jesus?  No.

[Craig]

I don't see how anyone can say Jesus taught the salvation of all.  Paul, yes, Jesus?  No.

Jesus spoke in parables. Therefore, to understand what Jesus spoke if you are one of the crowd. A person needs the Spirit of God in order to discern what He was saying. It sounds mystical and things but, that isn't it. Read everything by Love, do not read from your own understanding, that is what trips people up and that is why the crowds and the pharisee could not understand them. They were of the world, and part of the world, operating as the world operates and so think as the world thinks. So in speaking parables, they could not hear, see or understand what he was saying. When Jesus spoke concerning those who prophesied in His Name and did mighty miracles in His Name. He was not literally saying that He did not know them. Of course He knew them, He knew their hearts and their deeds. They show by their actions, they did not know Him. Those who do not know Christ, show that they are not known as Christ, and so not known by Christ.

Just read through the Old Testament, there are many prophets who claimed to be from God but were not. There were many dreamers who dreamed dreams and what they dreamed came true but it was not in line with what God is and was.

Deut 13:1-5
1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (or a god you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Waitin!  :winkgrin:

I am sure this portion of scripture has been discussed but I don't see it. Could anyone please point me to something that deals with those who are told "I never knew you" and then told to depart into the fire?

Thanks..

To begin with, this notation does not remove SALVATION from these... they MUST be SAVED for only BY the power of the HOLY SPIRIT, can any man call JESUS, Lord...  Entering into the Kingdom of Heaven (God) is to die to oneself, and thereby be replaced as "KING" of ones life ...by CHRIST...

It is interesting that the verse you refer to notes JESUS saying, "and then will I profess unto them "...I... never KNEW, ...YOU... depart from me, ye that WORK iniquity"  (Matt 7:23)

The church teaches and places paramount emphasis about getting to KNOW God via worship...  but GOD gets to KNOW you by the amount of HIS WORD which becomes an investment IN YOU...

The ones which had just spoken to JESUS in Matt 7:22 ...smugly TOOK CREDIT for accomplishing the WORK which HE did  ...IN THEM, ...not work THEY did ...FOR HIM... which IS essentially, ...the iniquity of which He speaks them "working"...

When He says... I never KNEW YOU... JESUS is speaking of an INTIMATE relationship, which is TWO WAY, ...ONE which displays HIMSELF  24/7  as HE ...POWERFULLY...  WORKS IN US, ...not just the one, which once a week, ..."weakly" emerges from US as we sing or pray, in church... are you getting the "we" picture here bro?

Mark 9:49-50  For EVERY ONE shall be SALTED with FIRE and EVERY SACRIFICE shall be salted with SALT...  SALT is GOOD, but if the salt have lost his saltiness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and peace with one another...

The FIRE, restores even the ones who have lost the "saltiness"... (1 Cor 3:11-15)

peacE...
...willieH  :icon_king:

[dboutwell]

NightFlight,

I don't see how anyone can say Jesus taught the salvation of all.

Well, He did teach this..."But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." Which gose along with Paul's telling us that Christ will reign until everything and everyone is in submission to Him...however long it takes...

Remember it was the people of God that Jesus was warning about Hell/Gehenna. Not the sinners. "Depart, I Never know you" is speaking of the same thing as Jesus telling them they were children of Gehenna in Matthew 23.

A sinner would not be expecting to be part of the kingdom so Jesus couldn't warn them of Hell/Gehenna. I really believe there are certain ones chosen to be a part of what God is doing in the earth. Many are called but few are chosen, according to Bible....  The chosen one's have to bow just the same as everyone else and if they don't they will suffer punishment too. 

Just the way I see, I could be ever so wrong...still attempting to understand this wonderful plan of our Lord......

Debbie :)

[martincisneros]

I could come up with a more detailed answer later, but just glancing at the passage in question from Matthew 7, the way that we know that it was parabolic (although that's not the only interpretation that I could give) is that the chapter is sooo full of illustrations.  After this "many will say....I never knew you" passage, you've got Jesus saying "therefore..."  What's "therefore" there for?  Jesus was saying that because of what I've just said, if you build your house on My Words your house will survive any storm; if you don't build your house on My Words, then you're going down worse than the Titanic!  So, contextually, this passage doesn't have to either be an end of life or end of days passage, but about how we face life whether in the life cycle or in the death cycle; whether in the curse or in the blessing of Abraham.  It's talking about those who are doers of the Word verses those who are hearers only, deceiving themselves.  Therefore, it's not the storm that takes down anything in anyone's life, or God's sovereignty, or whatever, but the lack of foundation.  A foundation isn't "memory verses" 'cause many might chide me for saying this who could quote larger parts of the Bible than I could.  But was the Word first priority and final authority in word, thought, and action all of the days leading up to whatever anecdotal evidence they'd give me on why their views of sovereignty mean more than the exact Words of Christ?  Fruit grows moment by moment and seldom by spurts.  The whole chapter is talking about fruit.  Who's doing it, moment by moment, and who's giving lip service to it that the first storm that comes along will make look like the 7 sons of sceva?  I've had situations in my life over the last 18 years where the 7 sons of sceva got off easier!  And Jesus would have to take me back to Mark 4 and explain where I'd missed it and turned loose of something important [lifestyle related] at a critical moment when the situation was almost mine.  And thankfully, I'm having fewer and fewer of those moments where my head's doing the cartoonish morphing into a donkey because of this or that.  I've just about got all of the Bugs Bunnys chased out of my life with all of their plans for war, etc.  My own agendas, which is another thing Matthew 7 is talking about, are at an all time low as nothing else has been mattering for years except for glorifying Jesus Christ.

[SeekerSA]

Good post Willie and Martin

I have come to coin this phase of the "I-knew-you Nots" as the majority of the mainstream and specifically those puporting ET.

They sure like to zoom in on the "fire" texts, maybe they are moths  (Mindless Old Testament Heretical Saints) :laughing7:

I cannot add much to what has already been posted but the one thing I find in the context of these parables is the whom it was directed to, sometimes you need to back up a chapter to see who the audience is.

The only one that seems to oppose what I see is the sheep and goats (both clean animals) yet one is led to believe the goats are the sinners and the sheep the saints - wrong.  It is easy to get folk to make this connection as I am sure this symbol says it all

(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/d/dc/180px-Seal_of_Baphomet.svg.png)

See the goat?

Well then the stage is set yet what was the replacement that Abraham found trapped in the thicket when he was on his way to sacrifice Isaac?

Why a goat?

Well I do not want to sidetrack as that is another whole debate.

Also the passover - a goat was also acceptable.

Goats were clean animals used in the temple oblations and in fact there is the bit of the sin being place upon the goat and led out of the city/gates - don't have the details as I am not a follower of the OT sacrificial system neither do I believe it was ordained of God in the first place - others may choose to chime in as this is NOT my forte

All I encourage you to observe is the audience Jesus was sharing this with.  Now had He spoken of sheep and pigs then we would have a different perspective.

The problem with most ET folk is that they take verse out of context and string them together to support their man-made doctrines.  One needs to read the whole scrips and see the underlying message is of Love and NOT condemnation.  All folk can proof text to support their POV.  Most folk still read the bible with a veil as they have elected to regress back to the law and as Paul stated, "even today when the law is read it is with a veil" (paraphrased)

Blessings