Why?

[nightflight]

If UR is true, why would God allow the traditional teaching of eternal torment to be propagated throughout the centuries?  So much suffering has come to humanity because of that hateful, abusive theology. 

My own life has been made hell because of the teaching of hell; I find myself once again fantasizing as I did when I was a child, that there was no god.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi N-F...  :welcome:

Such concerns touch us all brother(sister?)...

If UR is true, why would God allow the traditional teaching of eternal torment to be propagated throughout the centuries?  So much suffering has come to humanity because of that hateful, abusive theology. 

My own life has been made hell because of the teaching of hell; I find myself once again fantasizing as I did when I was a child, that there was no god.

We are all part of the POTTERY of GOOD and EVIL, which GOD, the great POTTER is MOLDING for the ETERNAL benefit of the ENTIRE CREATION...

As it groans in anticipation of the GLORIOUS LIBERTY of the SONS of GOD...

We must come through it to really KNOW what it is... and we are all playing various (good and evil) parts in that revelation...

It won't be long bro (sis?)... and the finished product, called the SONS of GOD, will be COMPLETE (perfect)

PeacE...
...willieH  :laughing7:

[martincisneros]

Romans chapters 9 through 11 talk about the partial blindness that's come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.  Those chapters talk about the Church being grafted into Israel, therefore, if partial blindness has come upon Israel, then partial blindness has come upon the Church until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

[Redkora]

Is it possible that people at one point of history are less capable of understanding deep, abstract, spiritual concepts and truths than people at another point of history? If this is true, could it be possible that God knew that people up until fairly recently in history could not handle Universal Reconciliation? Human Western culture (Romans, Greeks, etc) was pretty brutal back then compared to now.

[martincisneros]

Is it possible that people at one point of history are less capable of understanding deep, abstract, spiritual concepts and truths than people at another point of history? If this is true, could it be possible that God knew that people up until fairly recently in history could not handle Universal Reconciliation? Human Western culture (Romans, Greeks, etc) was pretty brutal back then compared to now.

Good point.  I hadn't thought of using a historical perspective argument on this one.  Similar argument to what the Hal Lindsey type will make about their futurist perspective of Bible prophecy on why the only language for attack helicopters would have been some of the insect descriptions used in the prophets.  They didn't have the vocabulary back then that we have today, if the futurist interpretation of the book of Revelation is one of the legitimate interpretations.  With the brutality of the age of the Roman Empire, the idea of God reconciling the oppressed with the oppressors was totally anathema to people like Tertullian and Augustine.  They had no frame of reference for that kind of complete love and wisdom, and from the time period that the Scriptures were written, it was still to be a few ages before we'd fully see all of the fulfillments.  And as the poverty, shame, and futility of the dark ages grew, then so did the hatred for one's enemies and the hotter the hell that was preached in all centuries prior to the 20th century when the C.S. Lewis version started to catch on with Protestants and Catholics of "God doesn't send anybody there.  You decide to go there."

It's perdy much without the ability to contradict that the hotter the Hell was that was preached, it was usually a reflection of the times rather than a reflection upon the Word of God.  Usually when some of the old timers have been asked about their particular brutality in the midst of a war, their genuine answer from the heart is "You weren't there.  Times were different back then."  Perhaps that explains, if it doesn't entirely justify, some of the preaching of previous ages.

[WhiteWings]

"With the brutality of the age of the Roman Empire, the idea of God reconciling the oppressed with the oppressors was totally anathema to people like Tertullian and Augustine."

Why? The Bible has always taught to love/forgive eachother. That's UR on local/personal/human scale.

[martincisneros]

"With the brutality of the age of the Roman Empire, the idea of God reconciling the oppressed with the oppressors was totally anathema to people like Tertullian and Augustine."

Why? The Bible has always taught to love/forgive eachother. That's UR on local/personal/human scale.

Some of it would have to do with the definition of a human being in previous centuries.  It wasn't until after the Reformation got started that the movement against human slavery started gaining momentum from the pulpits of the Revivalists.  If there was a context of centuries where people were that deceived and confused about what a human being was, and the idea of "all men Created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights..." was that foreign to their thinking and their emotions, then to whatever degree people viewed animals, and to the degree that people regarded other people as animals, then you couldn't help but have animalistic behaviour even from the pulpits.

It comes back to the dominion nature that God gave to man in the beginning and that's reactivated through Jesus Christ to a higher level according to Romans 5 and various other passages.  If people aren't living in dominion over their emotions, their money, their health, to varying degrees over their circumstances, then the natural human inclination is to start trying to take that out on other people and to try to control relationships, other groups of people through either legislation or the courts, etc.  A movie came out a few years ago with the important line "with great power comes great responsibility."