Wages of sin is death - what does it mean?

[WhiteWings]

It may sound stupid but I don't understand that verse...  :sigh:

All die (besides the believers that are alive when Jesus returns).
So believer or sinner we all die.
We also get resurrected sooner or later. No difference there either.
If you believe ET or UR then you don't die either.
Only when you believe in annihilism you truly die (again)

[pneuma]

For me we all die to the old man nature, its appointed unto man once to die and then the resurrection.

[WhiteWings]

But then "Wages of being human is death" would be more appropiate....?
Afteral believers also die.
Yeah all believers are sinners too; but the verse is directed against the unrepenting sinner I think.

[joyful1]

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

this is the verse that you are questioning, WW, right?

Backing up in Romans 6 we find:

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

and just a little further down:

10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


The ONE death which men are appointed to, I believe, is the spiritual death of the old man, the carnal mind....this can only be accomplished if we are baptized into Christ and die with Him--death is an ongoing process.We "die daily."

Joyce :)

[Paul Hazelwood]

It may sound stupid but I don't understand that verse...  :sigh:

All die (besides the believers that are alive when Jesus returns).
So believer or sinner we all die.
We also get resurrected sooner or later. No difference there either.
If you believe ET or UR then you don't die either.
Only when you believe in annihilism you truly die (again)

One of the difficulties in this verse is a presumption that the rapture is a correct doctrine.

[joyful1]

I have a few more comments, but maybe I'm not answering what you want to ask here....your thoughts, ww?

Concerning the "baptisim" spoken of...

I'll go out on a limb here and comment that I don't believe that ANY physical "ritual" can change one thing on the inside of us, in the spiritual sense. John baptized people in water when they would repent of their sin....and Jesus was baptized by John, but at that point, the NEW Covenant was beginning....and Jesus now, as John prophesied, baptizes us with fire and the Holy Spirit.

For me, I see this as, being immersed in the Word of God and understanding it as it is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. No MAN can baptize you this way....only Christ can.

Does this help, ww?

[WhiteWings]

Even if you go a little off-topic I don't care. I learn. That's also important.
My thoughts....
Ok, spiritual death. Fine with me because that's mainly what religion is about. But still I read things like new/glorified bodies. But for one moment lets assume this is a ET board.
Both good and wicked live eternally. There is no difference between them. Besides the place they are in of course. The ones that are on fire are likely more aware of their existence than the ones in Heaven. So the wages didn't make any difference.
For UR their is no difference either.
Only for annihilism see the difference.

Paul I'm not suggestion rapture. Perhaps my question leads that way but certainly that's not the meaning of it.

[willieH]

willieH: Hey there dudes  :icon_king: ...and dudelettes  :icon_queen:

My  :2c:  ..........

The wages of sin IS DEATH... means just what it says... We all earn by disobedience, the right to DIE!  And GOD pays that wage by drawing us ALL (and our souls) back to the dust...  The SPIRIT which gives the body and soul LIFE, returns to YHVH (Ecc 12:7)

The SOUL which LIVES, is a combination of the dust and the SPIRIT of YHVH... (Gen 2:7)

For me we all die to the old man nature, its appointed unto man once to die and then the resurrection.

I think that Joyce made a good point, ...that being that "dieing daily" (putting to death the Carnal nature) is an on-going process... but that "dieing daily" thing is NOT the "death" ALL MEN are appointed to... :mnah:

ALL MEN do NOT "die daily"... but ALL MEN do eventually die the DEATH of the FLESH...  :dontknow:

The death into which she referred those as "dieing daily",  ...is foreordained in those who are called (Eph 2:10)... CHRIST's death... which is the death of the Carnal nature (in THIS lifetime)... and is the FIRST resurrection... NOT ALL men are ordained to "walk in these Good Works" which Paul speaks of...

Rather, MOST are "ordained" to walk otherwise... (Rom 9:18-19)

For when one are baptised into CHRIST's DEATH, one is also RAISED with Him into His LIFE... (Rom 6:3-8)  Which is actually the PREFACE of this topic which is noted in (Rom 6:23)



<----  <----  <----  <----  <----  <----  <----  <----  <----  <----  <----


:sigh:  THE WAR:

ALL MEN are to die in FLESH of SIN... for the FLESH is that which WARS with the SPIRIT (Rom 7:23 / Gal 5:17)...

The SPIRIT eventually wins the WAR (in ALL cases)... for Michael and His Angels prevail (Rev 12:7)  Which results in EVERY KNEE bowing and EVERY TONGUE confessing... (Rom 14:11 / Phil 2:11 / Is 45:23)

Michael and His Angels = CHRIST (and His WORDS) beginning in us as veiled and eventually REVEALING Himself via those bearing GOD's TRUTH about us and thereby, transforms us into agreement with the SPIRIT...

The devil and His angels = Those portions of us which remain in adversity to that TRUTH, ...remain in agreement with the FLESH, and disagreement with the SPIRIT... (Rom 7:25)




:boogie:  THE VICTORY:

All this does not come to conclusion for everyone within their individual lifespans in the flesh... but shall conclude on the LAST DAY... in which Resurrection and (the passing results of) Judgment shall occur (John 6:44 / John 12:48)

When GOD's JUDGMENTS are enacted in the Earth... the "inhabitants" LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS (Is 26:9) 

JUDGMENT is the TEACHER of TRUTH which results in LIVING within Righteousness...

TRUTH is the CREATOR of FREEDOM...  (John 8:32)... which delivers from the bondage of SIN...

DEATH is swallowed up IN VICTORY... which means that ALL DEATH is eliminated, and ALL which have been affected by it are released from it... (1 Cor 15:54-55 / Hosea 13:14)

DEATH is a "state", and is the removal of the "state" of LIFE in the temporal (TIME)...

LIFE prevails over it in ALL instances in the ETERNAL... and when...

LIFE has prevailed in VICTORY forever...

DEATH is found ELIMINATED forever...

peAce...
willieH    :popout:

[WhiteWings]

Thanks for the quick and lengthy answers!

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

But when I stick to UR or ET then that verse should have been:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is punishment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Afteral everyone gets eternal life. Without the sacrifice of Jesus and without repentance we still would live eternally. In hell...

I understand all the explanations about spiritually dead; but even those who are spiritually death get ressurected after their 'fleshly' death. So isn't the verse just stating the obvious or something we have no control over.
"The wages of being born in this universe is death..."
Well great information.... but what am I supposed to do with that knowledge.

Bedtime for me.
Unless I wake up dead tommorrow I'll read your replies.  :thumbsup:

[pneuma]

Thanks for the quick and lengthy answers!

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

But when I stick to UR or ET then that verse should have been:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is punishment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Afteral everyone gets eternal life. Without the sacrifice of Jesus and without repentance we still would live eternally. In hell...

I understand all the explanations about spiritually dead; but even those who are spiritually death get ressurected after their 'fleshly' death. So isn't the verse just stating the obvious or something we have no control over.
"The wages of being born in this universe is death..."
Well great information.... but what am I supposed to do with that knowledge.

Bedtime for me.
Unless I wake up dead tommorrow I'll read your replies.  :thumbsup:

Think of it this way WW,

the wages of sin are death

What death?

Jesus paid the wages

How?

by way of the CROSS

What does the cross do in the beleivers life?

Kills the old man.