Adam was not the first man , but let's take a closer look at him. By

[Mickiel]

Began in Medopotamia..  :thumbsup:

But I tend to think 6OOO years are set for letting things run their course.. From that so visibke option in Eden, of straying/imperfection. .. :Chinscratch: And if it had not been there, thinking would?ve had to be absent as well?

So things are running their course, then is a 7th millennium, a Sabbath. And then! Another one, an ?8th?! As Rev.20:5 tells us that after the resurrection/rising of all believers at the Lord?s return ?the rest of the dead don?t rise until after the thousand years?.

And He had said - ?these (not yet saved/still wild weeds/goats) will rise into aionion-kolasis/eonian-correction? Mt.25:46. So when else can that be?

I believe man has regressed not progressed. There?s good scientific minds that find no reason to disagree with the simple and straightforward ?morning and an evening, one day? and each one summarized that way.

I actually did quite a bit of study kn that whole topic. Then after a while got tired  of that ?debate? as folks can get so rude (regressive not progressive, lol).

My thought is when our Father does the (btw, fiery) ReGenesis of Rev.21:1-5 (w/ 2Pet.3:12-13) will it be by trial and error? Or wll it take him thousands or millions of years?
:Peace2:
L

On Matt.25:46  is basically saying people are going to be punished  , in an inordinate amount of time , basically for being selfish unbelievers.And those kinds of people perhaps constitutes most of created humanity. In my view it is impossible to be a Universalist and accept people being punished for long periods of time, like a thousand years. And anywhere , anybody in scripture who states something like that, I don't believe it. It does not square with God's ways as I understand them. This millennium belief is just another thing in scripture that I do not believe. And I see no where in scripture that condnemns me for not believing every little thing in the Bible that I cannot see or understand.

I believe everything in scripture that is of serious importance , and punishment for not believing I think is something that can get out of hand. Why should anyone be condemned for not believing in the millennium? Or lengthy sour punishment
. Anything that happens in scripture either God is involved  and it must lead to salvation , and if not , then I have to see it explained to me. I don't have to blindly believe it. I can't explain long drawn out punishments that God supposedly has ordained , or a second era of Satan deceiving saints who have lived with God 1000 years. That exposure to him tells me something is wrong with this millennium belief. To be personally exposed to Christ and God for 1000 years , then be duped by Satan to turn against God , my goodness no.

I offer my apology to anyone this offends , but the picture this paints out , and involving God and Christ. No , I can't get to it.

[marie glen]

Mikiel, the phrase is eonian correction - surely(?) just as we are being corrected now. Where do the images of fierce punishment come from? Not from God who is LOVE. We are very agreed on that.

We must get rid of the strange pathways of thinking in terms of an angry and vengeful god - we know who that one is.

An aion/eon of correction/straightening out veRy strongly implies no humans in the regenesis lake of fire - Rev.21:1-5, 2Pet.3:12-13 ..ALL purified by His loving Spirit/Presence before all are made new/pure/perfected. Three vivifications are listed in 1Cor.15:21-24,28. The barley harvest, wheat harvest and grape HARVEST. :banana:

Most afterlife scenarios believed are rather crazy. Either the tired punishment view or the wicked don?t worry about it, go on deciding good and evil for yourselves, hitlers, etc will be magically transformed at resurrection - what in the world would they ever learn by that? And if that were a way approved by God, why are we being corrected now? Instead of merely magically transformed?

Did you think I meant an eon in literal fire? How strange communication can be, lol :gsmile: on this side of the ages.

[marie glen]

p.s. there are mortal survivors of apocalypse.. and thus during the millennium.. so births, generations, even deaths.. And the resurrection of all the rest of humanity not resurrected at Jesus? return, occurs ?after the thousand years? which thousand years cannot be the age of correction/education/straightening.. as those not yet ?corrected? are still in their graves.. they rise after the Sabbath millennium, and logically after the final (fiery) defeat of the adversary, also in Rev.20.

Jesus said, ?All those in the tombs/graves will hear His voice and will come forth? (from the graves/tombs) ?some in the resurrection of life.? (quote - ?this is the first (therefor not the only) resurrection? rising into what has been called THE millennium following Jesus? return.) ?And some, the rest of humanity/God?s children (rise) into the resurrection of judgment? (Jn.5:28-29) - which elsewhere, He calls aionion/eonian-kolasis ?agelasting-correction? (Mt.25:46) NoT punishment - like we believers are being corrected now.. Why wouldn?t ALL correction be the very same process for every human? - which to me seems to be of logic (root word logos). :gsmile:

[marie glen]

Thus an ?8th? day a ?last great day? (Jn.7:37 being a glimpse and shadow of..) which an 8th day/eon/aion pretty much proves UR/CU - as logically, who would be so hard headed as to refuse to bend the knee and deny reality all that while? What patience our Father has! Letting straying run its course for 6000 years (6 days).. Why? As some may think, some sort of error occurred beyond God?s control? and foresight?  :doh: :laughing7: I think of this 6000 years as the parable of the rotten apple (of apocalypse, which began at the first disobedience, unavoidably apocalypse because God is Life, and ?is perfect? - Good news! Life hAs to be perfect!) Once the apple begins decomposition (imperfection) can it change course back to perfection? He has left the decomposing apple (imperfection - hamartia - ?missing the mark?/sin) on the counter (or table? lol) for all to plainly see. Proving to all, His point. Straying/imperfection can only ever result in apocalypse (both individual and collective). Thus proving once and for ?all? Good from evil/notGood. Life from its opposite, notLife.

He repeats the msg over and over.. It?s why circumcision was done on an infants 8th day..
   

[Mickiel]

Interesting, this belief in two ressurections. But if the millennium is acceptable, then so is two ressurections. I do see it differently Marie. As in 2Thess.1:9-10 , he mentioned everlasting destruction, but I don't believe that is for humans,  but I do see Jesus coming for all saints "In that day." And I believe all of humanity will be in that day. I can see how many believe as you seem to , I wonder why they cannot believe as I do? :laugh:  Just kidding. This is how people can create this belief in a rapture , they make sperate ressurections , the saints get caught up and hosted away for 1000 years , I don't know where , but it has to be on earth in the Kingdom and I guess all of humanity are in graves until this second ressurection. Whew I just cannot see that. There are saints on earth before Christ comes who have his holy spirit that Satan cannot deceive , Matt.24:24 I don't see it possible to deceive a saint of who is a spirit being in the Kingdom of God for 1000 years. Ohh we :eek: goodness no.

[Mickiel]

Interesting, this belief in two ressurections. But if the millennium is acceptable, then so is two ressurections. I do see it differently Marie. As in 2Thess.1:9-10 , he mentioned everlasting destruction, but I don't believe that is for humans,  but I do see Jesus coming for all saints "In that day." And I believe all of humanity will be in that day. I can see how many believe as you seem to , I wonder why they cannot believe as I do? :laugh:  Just kidding. This is how people can create this belief in a rapture , they make sperate ressurections , the saints get caught up and hosted away for 1000 years , I don't know where , but it has to be on earth in the Kingdom and I guess all of humanity are in graves until this second ressurection. Whew I just cannot see that. There are saints on earth before Christ comes who have his holy spirit that Satan cannot deceive , Matt.24:24 I don't see it possible to deceive a saint of who is a spirit being in the Kingdom of God for 1000 years. Ohh we :eek: goodness no.

I guess that's one of the things that bothers me , for the millennium to be true, then that means thousands of saints will betray God and Christ after living with them for 1000 years, and in Matt. 24:24 showing the elect in the flesh cannot be turned against God, "If it were possible , to fool the very elect." I think Christ here provides proof that the elect in the flesh cannot be turned away from God. My goodness, if a  believer in the flesh cannot be deceived , how can you' square with that by suggesting a spirit being in the Kingdom can be deceived after being exposed to God for 1000 years?

[Mickiel]

 I have to be honest , I have never seen a scripture that mentions a second ressurection. It's certain lts certainly implied, so I understand the confusion. In John 5:28-29 Jesus teaches that a time is coming when ALL that are in graves shall come forth in what he calls"The ressurection of Life".  And the ressurection of damnation. We cannot accept there is a damnation ressurection and be Universalist. But then we have Rev. 20:4 where beheaded believers were killed then Jesus brings them to life and they rule 1000 years.5-9 clearly shows a thousand year period.Satan is loosed in vs.7. In vs 8 he goes to every nation on earth and deceives thousands. Who are these deceived idiots? Either they are spirit beings or fleshly humans. If they're human , then you are teaching there will be flesh in the Kingdom , which I do not accept as truth. Teaching this 1000 year period , I think needs more scripture to help me understand it. I cannot see the use of it, in my view it is a waste of time. And I just cannot see God as a waster of time. The Kingdom of God is going to suffer this violence?

[Mickiel]

I look at verses like Acts 24:15; Having a hope in God  that there shall certainly be a ressurection of both the righteous and the wicked. Some may see two separate ressurections in this, I only see one for the both of them together having the same future. In John 6:39 Jesus claims  that the will of the Father who sent him, that all the humans God has given him that he will not loose any of them but  raise them all up at the last day. We know in John 17:2 that the Father gives Jesus all humans. I view this as one ressurection. So millennials need two ressurections for their belief to make some kind of sense. That would be a very dynamic sad event in my view, Satan again for the second time is allowed into a holy place of God, into his kingdom and to the very gates of the holy city , with deceived spirit beings, or flesh humans not yet transformed;  hey, stop! All this does is open things up to a lot more confusion. Well at least it does to me.

[Mickiel]

 I am very superstitious about the scripture saying Satan is bound for one thousand years and then loosed on a mission of mystery by God to  deceive the residents of heaven , the number of people deceived is " As the sands of the seas," which is the biblical way of saying billions of people. Rev.20:8 there are billions of sand grain in the sea. So this belief has to supply Satan with billions of people who came from where? This means they were already ressurected and placed in the Kingdom . In Rev. 20:10 the devil and the false prophet were dealt with;  well now the false prophet, so religion was in  on all this ?

[Mickiel]

Even more mystery in Rev.19: 19 there is a war between Christ and his angels , and the armies of earth. Satan and the false prophet is among them , leading them . Then Satan is captured along with the false prophet and thrown into the lake of fire.. the armies are killed. Satan is then taken from the fire and thrown into a great pit and bound. He then is loosed after 1000 years , he immediately deceives billions of saints I suppose , spirit believers in heaven, or  humanoids , I don't know, it's weird to me.Now another war. Satan and all the humanoids or decieved saints are slaughtered  except Satan I guess, he is put back into the lake of 🔥 fire. The there is a great ressurection and all are saved ; I guess this is how it goes?

[Mickiel]

Yes I certainly do not believe in two ressurections , or two "Days of the Lord", why? Well because it's not in scripture. I am not a believer that sees some kind of rapture in scripture neither. The Bible very plainly mentions "The first ressurection",  I have seen that in scripture , but I have never seen any mention of a second ressurection. Don't you think if the Bible has no secrets or signals or implications of there being a first ressurection , why would it not even once mention a second ressurection? I mean if there were two, it would mention two , you know. No hidden meanings or vague implications. Matthew 24th chapter helps , 29th verse says immediately after the tribulation Jesus shall come in great glory , his elect gathered from all over the world, verse 34 states  that generation of humans on earth shall not pass until all these things be for filled . No other tribulations , no more wars with Satan, and no more ressurections. This makes sense to me , but I guess it does not to others.

[Mickiel]

I think one reason many believe in a second ressurection, is because of the scripture mentioning a second death. So this use of "A second" in scripture we tend to overlap them. Even the second death is not humans dying , as I learned from Gary Amirault years ago, the second death is the death of the first death. This second death being tossed into the lake of fire is either highly symbolic , or it could be some kind of angelic being designed to be death itself, which I tend to favor, but I really don't know; and it may sound cold, but I don't care either.

[Mickiel]

We build today on what we built yesterday. That principle can be applied to scriptures. We cannot advance in knowledge of God by building on deceptive work. Examine Jesus in John 6:39 ",This is the Father's will, that All he has given him he should raise the up " AT" the last day." We know from John 17:2 that the Father gave him ALL of humanity. We all will be AT the last day. No other place or day.


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[Mickiel]

As I have stated that the belief in two ressurections opens up all kinds of confusion. Consider this: John 11:25-26 , " Again Jesus, I am the ressurection and the life, he that believeth in me , though he were dead , yet shall he live." " And whoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Do you believe this, Jesus asked. Listen if you look closer at this, when he taught in vs 25 though he were dead , yet shall he live again is the first ressurection , then Jesus teaches that these ressurected shall never die, in vs 26. Obviously Jesus did not teach that those humans that are ressurected will have to die yet again. But this two ressurections belief seriously contradicts Jesus. If you accept two ressurections , then there will be billions of resurrected humans who have to die again and Jesus teaching must be removed from the Bible. What billions you may ask? Well Rev. 20:8, Gog and Magog , attacks the holy city IN the Kingdom of God, 1000 years INTO the Kingdom of God, Satan decieves enough kingdom residents , the Bible describes them as being numbered as the sands of the sea, obviously billions, they are slaughtered and killed, that means they died a second time in direct violation of Jesus teaching that they shall never die again. Those billions can only be true if there are two ressurections and Jesus needs to be informed of this glaring insult of his prophecy

[Mickiel]

As I have stated that the belief in two ressurections opens up all kinds of confusion. Consider this: John 11:25-26 , " Again Jesus, I am the ressurection and the life, he that believeth in me , though he were dead , yet shall he live." " And whoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Do you believe this, Jesus asked. Listen if you look closer at this, when he taught in vs 25 though he were dead , yet shall he live again is the first ressurection , then Jesus teaches that these ressurected shall never die, in vs 26. Obviously Jesus did not teach that those humans that are ressurected will have to die yet again. But this two ressurections belief seriously contradicts Jesus. If you accept two ressurections , then there will be billions of resurrected humans who have to die again and Jesus teaching must be removed from the Bible. What billions you may ask? Well Rev. 20:8, Gog and Magog , attacks the holy city IN the Kingdom of God, 1000 years INTO the Kingdom of God, Satan decieves enough kingdom residents , the Bible describes them as being numbered as the sands of the sea, obviously billions, they are slaughtered and killed, that means they died a second time in direct violation of Jesus teaching that they shall never die again. Those billions can only be true if there are two ressurections and Jesus needs to be informed of this glaring insult of his prophecy

You may ask how did I miss this, if you now see it for the first time? Well it's being revealed to you by God's Spirit , the same way your other beliefs were. The second death does not mean we have to die twice. The second death , is death itself and the grave - which symbolize death, will be eliminated in Rev.20:14 But if the millennium is true, it then opens up Rev.20:8 to be true, Needs 20:8 to be truth. Which will mean Paul's teaching in 1Corinth.15:50 is false that no flesh will be in the Kingdom of God. And you have to teach that those billions that Satan deceives in God's kingdom were human flesh, unless you dare teach that they were spirit beings and residents now being deceived and killed in heaven. Oh Jesus help us to see and believe what is the truth.

[Mickiel]

Of interest is the biblical use of the word ressurection. The term in many versions is used around 41 times . The phrase "First ressurection" ,  is used only twice , in Rev.20: 5-6. The phrase 'Second ressurection " is never used in scripture. So again the more times phraseology is used in scripture , the more verses there are on the same subject or topic , then I think the more we can pull doctrines from it. Does that make sense? Do you think it makes sense to formulate a doctrine from one verse in the Bible? If you make a decision to formulate doctrine from one biblical verse, whew you'd better be right. Is it possible , I doubt it but I am willing to look at it if you are willing to share it. This is not a challenge, rather it's a chance to learn.

[Mickiel]

It's different if you're studying names or characters listed in the Bible , it's all kinds of people out there offering their own study of it, the lists can vary from hundreds to almost 3000. A professor named Lawrence Mykytiuk has an interesting study where he claims 53 biblical characters can be verified.

[Mickiel]

 I have a request for anyone here who could explain the belief in a second resurrection , or if you believe it can you show me why. I hold no interest in changing anyone's mind or arguing the topic.

[Mickiel]

Blow your trumpet Lord and awake those of us who are sleep. We need that ressurection for sure. The ressurection of motivation and inspiration , along with a thrist for righteousness. A ressurection of righteousness. People create doctrines of a Trinity , when it is never mentioned in scripture. They feel it's religious and righteous for a mother to kill her unborn child , and mask it behind a woman rights to decide death. Here on mother's day , the nation is reeling over a court ruling that would stop the killing. How any believer could stand for abortion , is again the wiles of Satan. Trying to make it biblical and moral to murder an unborn child. There is no biblical support for that. The example In scripture is Mary being impregnated against all those righteous people who would have killed her if they knew. She did not abort our Savior. They would have cut her head off and  rip Jesus out of her womb and split Jesus unborn body into.

There is a doctrine called the second ressurection , which again is no where found in scripture. I call it "Magical doctrines." like pulling a rabbit out of a hat , things are being pulled out of the Bible that are not really in there. Deception is being wrong but not being conscious of being wrong.

[Mickiel]

I have a request for anyone here who could explain the belief in a second resurrection , or if you believe it can you show me why. I hold no interest in changing anyone's mind or arguing the topic.

I guess no one here believes in the second  ressurection or cares to show it to me in scripture.