The Sheep & the Goats

[FineLinen]

Jonathan Mitchell

http://greater-emmanuel.org/jm/sheepgoats.htm

[FineLinen]

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a 'simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure.

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

"Concordant Literal, Youngs literal, Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham's Emphasized, Scarlett's, J.W. Hanson's New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth's (unedited), Clementson's, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger's Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell's translation (2010).

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."

Scarlett's New Testament written in 1792 has aeonian punishment in place to everlasting punishment.

And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.

The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:

And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.

Young's Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:

And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.

Professor Young also compiled Young's Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:

And these last will go away into aeonian punishment, but the righteous into aeonian life.

The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:

"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life."

Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as life of the ages, fire of the ages; and in Rev. 14:6, The good news of the ages.

It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth's version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.

The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word forever which is the same word for eternal which says: "Literally, for the age."

Clementson's The New Testament (1938) shows,

And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.

Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,

And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.

It should be noted that the cutting-off refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.

The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word "timoria."

The Concordant Version (1930):

And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.

The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:

And these shall go away into age lasting cutting-off and the just into age lasting life.

Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,

These shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976

Age-abiding correction instead of everlasting punishment.

Jonathan Mitchell's N.T. Translation

And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age).

Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King's translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment."

The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

"Depart from Me you that are abiding under a curse into age-abiding fire."

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure.

[FineLinen]

Kolasin

https://salvationforall.org/10_Strongholds/7-kolasin-meaning.html

Tom Talbott

According to Aristotle, there is a difference between revenge and punishment; the latter (kolasis) is inflicted in the interest of the sufferer, the former (timōria) in the interest of him who inflicts it, that he may obtain satisfaction. Plato also appealed to the established meaning of kolasis as support for his theory that virtue could be taught: For if you will consider punishment (kolasis) and what control it has over wrong-doers, the facts will inform you that men agree in regarding virtue as procured. Even where a punishment may seem harsh and unforgiving, more like retribution than parental chastisement, this in no way excludes a corrective purpose. Check out the punishment that Paul prescribes in I Corinthians 5:5. One might never have guessed that, in prescribing such a punishment that is, delivering a man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh Paul had in mind a corrective purpose, had Paul not explicitly stated the corrective purpose himself (that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus). So as this text illustrates, even harsh punishment of a seemingly retributive kind can in fact serve a redemptive purpose.

"And these will go away into everlasting [aionian] punishment [kolasis], but the righteous into eternal [aionian] life" (Mt. 25:46).

Isn't it ironic that the passage most often used to support everlasting punishment is in fact one strongly opposing it when accurately understood?

[FineLinen]

Kolasin defined by Greek thinkers

More important than the visual picture of kolasin as pruning to increase fruitfulness is the fact that prominent Greek-speaking thinkers explicitly define it as corrective punishment.

The case for kolasin as corrective punishment is virtually unassailable.

Plato (c.428-347 B.C.) & Plato Protagoras =

For if you will consider punishment Socrates, and what control it has over wrong-doers, the facts will inform you that men agree in regarding virtue as procured. No one punishes a wrong-doer from the mere contemplation, or on account of his wrong-doing, unless one takes unreasoning vengeance (τιμωρεῖται) like a wild beast.

But he who undertakes to punish with reason does not avenge (τιμωρεῖται) himself for the past offence, since he cannot make what was done as though it had not come to pass; he looks rather to the future, and aims at preventing that particular person and others who see him punished from doing wrong again. And being so minded he must have in mind that virtue comes by training: for you observe that he punishes to deter.

[FineLinen]

Canon F.W. Farrar: Aeonian

Of all the arguments on this question, the one which appears to me the most absolutely and hopelessly futile, is the one in which so many seem to rest with entire content; viz. that eternal or aeonian life must mean endless life, and therefore that aeonian chastisement must mean endless chastisement.

This battered and aged argument, if it had possessed a particle of cogency, would not have been set aside as entirely valueless by such minds as those of Origen and the two Gregorie's in ancient days, nor by multitudes in the days of St. Augustine and St. Jerome, nor by the most brilliant thinker among the schoolmen, nor by many of our greatest living divines .

No proposition is capable of more simple proof than that aeonian is not a synonym of endless.

It only means, or can mean, in its primary sense, pertaining to an aeon, and therefore indefinite, since an aeon may be either long or short; and in its secondary sense spiritual, pertaining to the unseen world, an attribute of that which is above and beyond time, an attribute expressive not of duration but of quality. Can such an explanation of the word be denied by any competent or thoughtful reader of John 5:39; 6:54; 17:3; 1 John 5:13,20? Would not the introduction of the word endless into those Divine utterances be an unspeakable degradation of their meaning?

And as for the argument that the redeemed would thus lose their promised bliss, it is at once so unscriptural and so selfish that, after what Mr. Cox and others have said of it, one may hope that no one will ever be able to use it again without a blush. I cannot here diverge into a discussion with Bishop Wordsworth and Canon Ryle, whose sermons need some adversaria rather longer than I can here devote to them; but as they both dwell on the fact that people who spoke Greek interpreted aionios to mean endless, I reply that some of the greatest masters of Greek, both in classical times and among the Fathers, saw quite clearly that, though the word might connote endlessness by being attributively added to endless things, it had in itself no such meaning.

I cannot conceive how any candid mind can deny the force of these considerations. If even Origenist's would freely speak of future punishment as aionios but never as ateleutetos [without end]  if, as even these papers have shown, Plato uses the word as the antithesis of endlessness, if St. Gregory of Nyssa uses it as the epithet of an interval, as though to leave this Augustinian argument without the faintest shadow of a foundation, there are absolutely two passages of Scripture (Hab.3:6 and Rom.16:25,26) where the very word occurs in two consecutive clauses, and is, in the second of the two clauses, applied to God, and yet is, in the first of the two clauses, applied to things which are temporary or terminated, what shall be said of disputants who still enlist the controversial services of a phantom which has been so often laid in the tomb from which it ought never again to emerge. How is it that not one out of the scores of writers who have animadverted on my book have so much as noticed the very remarkable fact to which I have called attention, that those who followed Origen in holding out a possible hope beyond the grave founded their argument for the terminability of torments on the acknowledged sense of this very word, and on the fact that other words and phrases which do unmistakably mean endless are used of the duration of good, but are never used of the duration of evil.

[FineLinen]

Search = "everlasting punishment"

Results = 1 verse found (Matt. 25:46)

The five (5) qualifications for aionios kolasis/ everlasting punishment according to the Master of reconciliation =

1.________________?

2.________________?

3.________________?

4.________________?

5.________________?

1. I was an hungry, and you gave me no meat.

2. I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink.

3. I was a stranger, and you took me not in.

4. I was naked, and you clothed me not.

5. I was sick, and in prison, and you visited me not.
This single one text of Scripture is the foundation for "everlasting punishment".

The fundamentalist has based their dogma of unending punishment upon this single text of Canon.

Questions =

1. The context of Matt. 25 is speaking of sheep and goats. Why?

2. The context is also speaking of pure virgins (5 wise & 5 unwise). Why?

3. Why not sheep and pigs (1 clean & 1 unclean), or pure virgins and loose women (clean & unclean)? Why?

4. What does the koine kolasis mean?

5. How does kolasis apply?

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment...." -Matt. 25:46
The fundamentalist has based their dogma of unending punishment upon this single text of Canon.

Questions =

1. The context of Matt. 25 is speaking of sheep and goats. Why?

2. The context is also speaking of pure virgins (5 wise & 5 unwise). Why?

3. Why not sheep and pigs (1 clean & 1 unclean), or pure virgins and loose women (clean & unclean)? Why?

4. What does the koine kolasis mean?

5. How does kolasis apply?

"These shall go away into everlasting punishment...." -Matt. 25:46

[ed]

1. The context of Matt. 25 is speaking of sheep and goats. Why?

Sheep are already won, Goats are not yet won.

"God resists the Proud, but gives grace to the humble", Why does God resist the proud, to bring them to the place of humility that they may find life, and grace.

The goats are in process, the sheep have arrived.

How much of our fellowship with God is golden and good, mostly?  Are we still in struggle in our fellowship with God? We are coming along. 

I believe Matthew has come to pass, yet there is still a working of eternal torment, and eternal life in each of us. 

The goat in us, we welcome the discipline of the Lord, because we know it is for our good.

The fundamentalist has based their dogma of unending punishment upon this single text of Canon.

It is inserted into many other places of judgement.  Can we show that all the things that Jesus talked about in the gospels have come to pass?  The church needs to move on, it can not move on if it is focused on saving people from this horrid place that does not exist.  I think that koine kolasis does exist, but it is not in the future, but in the present.  In the future koine kolasis will not be working, because all will have been corrected.

[FineLinen]

Hi there Ed. I believe the entire context is in relation to virgins and servants of the master. At the top of this page is Jonathan Mitchell regarding the sheep and goats.

Jonathan also has his own Bible translation which has taken over 20 years to prepare.

https://www.jonathanmitchellnewtestament.com/

[ed]

Hi there Ed. I believe the entire context is in relation to virgins and servants of the master. At the top of this page is Jonathan Mitchell regarding the sheep and goats.

What's all the waiting about? Isn't the kingdom a present reality?

[jabcat]

I think only partially...came, coming.  Believers can live in the kingdom (limited due to the flesh) now, with "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done" in process.  2 Cor. 4:4   "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."   John also says the god of this age will be cast out.

But if we mean a believer can enjoy the relationship and kingdom now, I believe absolutely we should - there are just still constraints IMO that are yet to be taken away - but will be!    :dsunny: 

[jabcat]

Paul said the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy, in the Holy Spirit.   :thumbsup:

[Ross]

1 Cor 13:12 " Now we see obscurely through a mirror- then, face to face: now I know in part, then I will know fully, as I was also known. "

Pretty awesome concept.
In our current state of flesh we cannot be in the heavens- a bit like trying to enter the sun,  and our Father is greater than the sun.
The promise is that we WILL BE LIKE HIM in Every regard: we are in the fixed position  now but are hidden in Christ till His return

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[darryl]

'aionios kolassis = correction of the world to come...read Ramelli's book on aionios.