Heaven Now

[ed]

Just thinking out loud, working some thoughts on 1 Corinthians 15, chime in with your thoughts.


41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

>>I'm thinking we have been raised from the dead.  I am raised in incorruption.  My flesh body has nothing to do with it.


43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

>>>>>> I've had my dishonour days, I'm raised in glory now, I have the power now to become a child of God.


44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

>>>>>I'm not expecting my physical body to be raised, other than we can have health in this body.  I'm living from my spiritual body now, are we to expect a body in a far away heaven somewhere?  My vote is no, what is yours?


45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


>>>>>This soul of Adam is not a body, it is a soul, in a body.  In Adam is sin, in Jesus Christ is perfection, the overcoming of the Sin body.


46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

>>>>>>>The Natural soul that sins is Adam, the Spiritual soul that sins not is the Perfect Son of God, I make the choice daily to live in the perfect Son of God.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

>>>>>>>I have chosen earthy, and now I choose heavenly, in Christ Jesus, and in the Power of the Spirit of God I am not in living the kingdom of the heavens.............no?  I'm going with yes.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

>>>>I am heavenly, it seems we are not talking about a body hear but a soul.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

>>>>>  Can we stick Now in there somewhere?  We shall also Now bear the image of the heavenly?  What is this image anyways, can you see the heavenly, it must be in the understanding, or the seeing of the mind.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

>>>>>>>Flesh and blood do not inherit the kingdom of God, but my soul right now does, my flesh will always desire corruption, my saved soul will always glory in life.


51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

>>>>I'm already changed, and am not concerned with death, death does not concern me for I am changed alive now, this body will be cast off.  All will experience this change and that is a greater glory.

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

>>>>Dead bodies?  Dead souls, or souls that that never found the truth and died in corruption.  All corrupted souls will be raised in incorruption by the truth, all souls will be changed by the truth and glory of the love of God in Christ Jesus.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

>>>>Flesh and blood in no way is going to inherit the kingdom of Glory.  The soul that is changed will, the soul that has been raised will, the soul that finds the truth is raised incorruptible, now and forever.


54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

>>>>Death has already been swallowed up in victory for those already raised in Christ, and those corrupted souls will be raised as well.  Flesh and blood, is not the picture here.


55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

>>>>>>>>Jesus Christ climbed out of the grave and showed for all creation that there is no lasing victory for the grave, the sting of death is decimated. 


56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

>>>>>>>>We do not live in this sin state, we do not live in this death state, we don't live in this law state for we have been raised and we live the resurrection from the perfect Spirit of God which is our inheritance and our birthright.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

>>>>> I have the Victory now folks, in and with our Savior Jesus Christ.


58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

>>>>>>We labor in life!  We labor as those that are alive from the dead, Praise God.

[darryl]

Just thinking out loud, working some thoughts on 1 Corinthians 15, chime in with your thoughts.


41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

>>I'm thinking we have been raised from the dead.  I am raised in incorruption.  My flesh body has nothing to do with it.


43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

>>>>>> I've had my dishonour days, I'm raised in glory now, I have the power now to become a child of God.


44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

>>>>>I'm not expecting my physical body to be raised, other than we can have health in this body.  I'm living from my spiritual body now, are we to expect a body in a far away heaven somewhere?  My vote is no, what is yours?


45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


>>>>>This soul of Adam is not a body, it is a soul, in a body.  In Adam is sin, in Jesus Christ is perfection, the overcoming of the Sin body.


46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

>>>>>>>The Natural soul that sins is Adam, the Spiritual soul that sins not is the Perfect Son of God, I make the choice daily to live in the perfect Son of God.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

>>>>>>>I have chosen earthy, and now I choose heavenly, in Christ Jesus, and in the Power of the Spirit of God I am not in living the kingdom of the heavens.............no?  I'm going with yes.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

>>>>I am heavenly, it seems we are not talking about a body hear but a soul.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

>>>>>  Can we stick Now in there somewhere?  We shall also Now bear the image of the heavenly?  What is this image anyways, can you see the heavenly, it must be in the understanding, or the seeing of the mind.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

>>>>>>>Flesh and blood do not inherit the kingdom of God, but my soul right now does, my flesh will always desire corruption, my saved soul will always glory in life.


51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

>>>>I'm already changed, and am not concerned with death, death does not concern me for I am changed alive now, this body will be cast off.  All will experience this change and that is a greater glory.

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

>>>>Dead bodies?  Dead souls, or souls that that never found the truth and died in corruption.  All corrupted souls will be raised in incorruption by the truth, all souls will be changed by the truth and glory of the love of God in Christ Jesus.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

>>>>Flesh and blood in no way is going to inherit the kingdom of Glory.  The soul that is changed will, the soul that has been raised will, the soul that finds the truth is raised incorruptible, now and forever.


54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

>>>>Death has already been swallowed up in victory for those already raised in Christ, and those corrupted souls will be raised as well.  Flesh and blood, is not the picture here.


55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

>>>>>>>>Jesus Christ climbed out of the grave and showed for all creation that there is no lasing victory for the grave, the sting of death is decimated. 


56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

>>>>>>>>We do not live in this sin state, we do not live in this death state, we don't live in this law state for we have been raised and we live the resurrection from the perfect Spirit of God which is our inheritance and our birthright.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

>>>>> I have the Victory now folks, in and with our Savior Jesus Christ.


58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

>>>>>>We labor in life!  We labor as those that are alive from the dead, Praise God.

sounds good !

[jabcat]

I see a lot of that as indeed "having passed from death unto life"  :dsunny:    I.e., victorious child of God, which through His grace and mercy alone is able to "live above" the misery of this world - "Christ in us the hope of glory" - the knowledge and hope of better things to come, living in the promises.  His Spirit within bringing peace and joy despite circumstances.

"If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable."

2 Cor 5  For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened.  Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.  For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Victory now - even better things to come.  :)

[ed]

.
"If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable."

2 Cor 5  For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened.  Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.  For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Victory now - even better things to come.  :)

It seems that Paul did preach a bodily resurrection.  Do you think he is right?  Do we or must we be risen exactly like Christ?  Jesus Christ is even now at the right hand of the Father in his ascended state, what does that say about his ascended state?  Sure he is risen, but he is also ascended, are you waiting for Him to come back in his risen state?  Must we?

Been a while jabcat, always like your perspective.

[jabcat]

Hi ed :)   Yes, maybe, I'm not sure, I hope so.  I think somewhere in there I answered all those questions.   :laugh:

Yeah, I sure don't have all the answers.  Many things I don't understand, take my best "shot", and then hope and try to trust on the rest.

I'll try to respond a little more thoroughly though, interesting topic.

Yes I think Paul was right, as I believe the scriptures, correctly transcribed, accurately translated, Spirit revealed are accurate and trustworthy.  Now, exactly what all he meant by every statement, I can't say.  Even Peter stated that some things Paul taught were "hard to understand".  On one hand the scriptures talk a lot about "now" (such as having been raised with Christ, having already passed from death to life, living in the kingdom) yet OTOH it talks about our hope of things to come, that we are sorely tried here but will one day be fully delivered, etc.).

I'd ask Cardinal to address this more if she could (and everyone else join in!)?  I.e., the idea that we are spiritually reborn at moment of being given faith to believe and trust Jesus as Savior and our Salvation.  So already reborn, regenerated, "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise unto that day".    But then secondly, the walking worthy of the high calling, picking up our cross and following, the trials and struggles that go along with that, while we are "sanctified, dying to self, being brought into His likeness through obedience".   Then thirdly, our complete redemption, which Paul called "the redemption of our bodies", when we are given immortality and Christ is All in All - completely filling everyone and everything.  "...unto that day.." What a day that will be! 

:dsunny:

[ed]

I've been studying the writings of Charles Fillmore, the founder of Unity.  They Don't teach an eternal hell or heaven for that matter, but multiple incarnation of the soul.  It took me a really long time to accept that as a possibility.  Am I going to hell?

Quick search:
"Consequently, many Jews are surprised to learn, or may even wish to deny, that reincarnation - the "revolving" of souls through a succession of lives, or "gilgulim" - is an integral part of Jewish belief. But this teaching has always been around. And it is firmly rooted in source-verses."
https://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380599/jewish/Judaism-and-Reincarnation.htm