Kingdom Fruit

[Andrew]

I have heard from ET believers that they can feel eternity inside of their heart, or that they have a supernatural peace that they carry during their days, or that they have an out of this world joy that they never knew in their previous life. I was wondering if UR believers have had the same experience. I would love to hear any thoughts on the subject, or if you have had a similar experience .

Thanks,

Andrew

[Ross]

G'day Andrew;

I have heard from ET believers that they can feel eternity inside of their heart, or that they have a supernatural peace that they carry during their days, or that they have an out of this world joy that they never knew in their previous life.

I have a brother who believes in ET. I used to and went to his services, as he is a minister, and was involved in prayer vigils/warfare. Was there when the "pouring out of the spirit" was happening to some people in the church. These people were falling backwards and experiencing a "peace" which they could explain by saying there were experiencing a light-headedness/utopic aura.
I felt I was missing out and had to "get rid" of more sin to come up to par to receive that spirit.

All the time I knew something was missing. Just could not work out what.
I can identify now with Paul when on the road to Damascus.
I was praying in the church at 1 A.M to throw out evil spirits and claim the territory of the church for Christ.
Then I just felt this is not right. This is achieving nothing.
Then I felt a peace I have never, EVER, felt before.
No bright lights. No falling backwards. No roaring emotions. Just peace.
That was 15 years ago.
Since that time I have been shown, in many ways, the reality of the fullness of Christ.
I have become like a child grows and learns through experience and interaction with their teacher/family.
Like Paul says,
                    "When I was a child I thought like a child, reasoned like a child.
                     Now I have become a man I have laid aside the things of a child."


I.M.O the ET guys experience something, but that brings in bondage as a slave, not freedom as a son. Esau, not Jacob.
The efforts of the flesh to copy the spirit.

1 Cor 14;33 " For God is not a God of confusion, but of peace."

1 Cor 14;40 " But all things should be done decently and in order."

The 'spiritual'  services do not display those concepts. The ones I went to were like organised chaos.
A "pouring out of the spirit".
I had to "Get Smart" to get out of there.
However; the positive of this is that I appreciate Christ work to the full because I have a basis of comparison from which to work.
Learning right from wrong requires the positive and negative reasoning to be elaborated on, and the hands on method works best.

And above all this-  NOTHING can keeps us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[marie glen]

I?ve always felt quite a bit of peace and joy, even during life?s trials snd stresses.. (I think yielding to Him during those times are very beneficial.) I?ve never believed in a hell or et. For a short while I thought perhaps tares were tares forever and perished as literal ?children of the devil? but that didn?t last long ad the fruit of such thinking has always been very bad! Besides as I kept reading our New Testament it became obvious we all used to be tares.. I?m getting sidetracked, lol. What I wanted to say is the studying of His word these 41 years, I?ve had my socks knocked off a number of times.. I am more (sort of) monastic than a church goer.

[rosered]

Ecclesiastes 3:11




11 Yet God has made everything beautiful for its own time.

He has planted eternity in the human heart, but even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God?s work from beginning to end.

Faith is  believing  without knowing , blessed are those whom confess they do not know  , yet wait on the Lord to reveal Himself .

  we all are but a vapour  in this corruptible and mortal state

  James 4 Do Not Boast of Tomorrow
13Come now, you who say, ?Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business, and make a profit.? 14You do not even know what will happen tomorrow! What is your life?

You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

15Instead, you ought to say, ?If the Lord is willing, we will live and do this or that.??

Job 7:7
Remember that my life is but a breath. My eyes will never again see happiness.

Psalm 39:5
You, indeed, have made my days as handbreadths, and my lifetime as nothing before You. Truly each man at his best exists as but a breath. Selah

Psalm 78:39
He remembered that they were but flesh, a passing breeze that does not return.

Psalm 102:3
For my days vanish like smoke, and my bones burn like glowing embers.

Psalm 144:4
Man is like a breath; his days are like a passing shadow.

Proverbs 27:1
Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring.

Isaiah 2:22
Put no more trust in man, who has only the breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?


Jesus gives us His peace  and knows what  the little children need in that hour .
It is impossible to judge another when we ourselves do not know  what will become of us !
  Trusting in GOD  is all we can muster up sometimes and it can be gone in a hair breath  unto the next  moment .

I have learned to fear GOD  in a healthy way and pray for others that are struggling with salvation too , it comes and goes, our peace  and our footing .

when we want to be right at all costs we loose our inner peace  for sure .   sometimes you have to trust in God  and just rest in that Hope that everything will work out as Gods will being done on earth as it is in heaven , Heaven being His throne and we are still  His footstool

  humbled by His  feet resting  with the readiness of the gospel of peace.

[dash]

Ecclesiastes 3:11




11 Yet God has made everything beautiful for its own time.

He has planted eternity in the human heart, but even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God?s work from beginning to end.

Faith is  believing  without knowing , blessed are those whom confess they do not know  , yet wait on the Lord to reveal Himself .

  we all are but a vapour  in this corruptible and mortal state

  James 4 Do Not Boast of Tomorrow
13Come now, you who say, ?Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business, and make a profit.? 14You do not even know what will happen tomorrow! What is your life?

You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

15Instead, you ought to say, ?If the Lord is willing, we will live and do this or that.??

Job 7:7
Remember that my life is but a breath. My eyes will never again see happiness.

Psalm 39:5
You, indeed, have made my days as handbreadths, and my lifetime as nothing before You. Truly each man at his best exists as but a breath. Selah

Psalm 78:39
He remembered that they were but flesh, a passing breeze that does not return.

Psalm 102:3
For my days vanish like smoke, and my bones burn like glowing embers.

Psalm 144:4
Man is like a breath; his days are like a passing shadow.

Proverbs 27:1
Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring.

Isaiah 2:22
Put no more trust in man, who has only the breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?


Jesus gives us His peace  and knows what  the little children need in that hour .
It is impossible to judge another when we ourselves do not know  what will become of us !
  Trusting in GOD  is all we can muster up sometimes and it can be gone in a hair breath  unto the next  moment .

I have learned to fear GOD  in a healthy way and pray for others that are struggling with salvation too , it comes and goes, our peace  and our footing .

when we want to be right at all costs we loose our inner peace  for sure .   sometimes you have to trust in God  and just rest in that Hope that everything will work out as Gods will being done on earth as it is in heaven , Heaven being His throne and we are still  His footstool

  humbled by His  feet resting  with the readiness of the gospel of peace.

Beautiful passages.

You have a wise and beautiful heart.

The closer to God I become the more I see the: 'sons of men' as children gone astray.

The wiser one becomes the more unwise the 'world'...

Iniquity is a lack of wisdom.

When I see people worship/follow a perceived 'eternal torturer' I think:

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart (the feelings, the will, the intellect, centre) [is] deceitful above all and frail/feeble who can understand it?


Isaiah 54:16
...I have created the destroyer to destroy

I think it's best to reserve judgment till the time appointed when God will make known the thoughts and intents of people's hearts.

Proverbs 24:20
For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.

[rosered]

The closer to God I become the more I see the: 'sons of men' as children gone astray.

The wiser one becomes the more unwise the 'world'...

Iniquity is a lack of wisdom.

When I see people worship/follow a perceived 'eternal torturer' I think:

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart (the feelings, the will, the intellect, centre) [is] deceitful above all and frail/feeble who can understand it?


Isaiah 54:16
...I have created the destroyer to destroy

I think it's best to reserve judgment till the time appointed when God will make known the thoughts and intents of people's hearts.

Proverbs 24:20
For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.

dear brother dash ,

  I once  was taught that  though "the traditions of men "of eternal torture  , but saw the Word become a contradiction ,

but now we have the Holy Spirit to teach us  , Thanks be to God for that !  what a day it was to discover that we need not to be taught of mankind  ...


not to love evil and saw nothing but evil  in me and in everyone  , 
How can we be saved ?
 

To not love the world and be in the world but not of it ,  yet  God you love the world  and gave your only  one of a kind son for it , I discovered later  , He also was not of this  world .again a rejoicing in my heart  for all of mankind , we all have the LORD TO SAVE US .

but told to

  pray for our enemies  and do good and love those that hate us ,  was a hard test for this one to realize , learning to keep silent when evil speaking comes forth accusing 
LORD PLEASE stop  the mouth !

the LORD REBUKE this tongue or that tongue etc.speaking in the Spirit to the Lord ... We must learn to put into practice as we are being taught of the Lord

  James 3   Taming the Tongue 5 So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things.

How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire!

6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness.

The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.


?7All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles, and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man,


8but no man can tame the tongue.


It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.


9With the tongue we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God?s likeness.?

 

I have been on both sides of this   great SWORD  /Word   and it cuts both ways .

  how can anyone be happy in their salvation  when others are struggling to  know God ??

I no longer can  sit under the other mans fig tree  any longer .I go boldly to the throne of grace  and ask JESUS  .




also  making the two fold son of hell   Matt 23  oh the woes of getting it right with God ,

13 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men? s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let in those who wish to enter.

15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ?If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.

17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes it sacred?

18And you say, ?If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.

19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes it sacred?

20So then, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.

21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the One who dwells in it.

22And he who swears by heaven swears by God? s throne and by the One who sits on it.

  It is  never wise to promise God anything !   we become utterly broken by the weight of it , our promise and failure  to keep it .

I have learned the hard way  making vows are for the foolish  .and tried and failed miserably   , and was glad to die under the law of sin and death for my error  , it was so hard to bear .

Ecc 5 As a dream comes when there are many cares, so the speech of a fool when there are many words. When you make a vow to God, do not delay in fulfilling it. He has no pleasure in fools; fulfill your vow. It is better not to vow than to make a vow and not fulfill it.

This was my foolish heart before I learned better ...........   Gods mercy is just that " mercy"   I can never take any credit  for any good thing only God has that right . 
I love Him for His mercy on us all .....

[rosered]

I did not mean to bold all that  :sigh: and tried to change it , so sorry .. and apologise  for embolding  that  last part  :doh:

[dash]

dear brother dash ,

I once  was taught that  though "the traditions of men "of eternal torture  , but saw the Word become a contradiction ,

but now we have the Holy Spirit to teach us  , Thanks be to God for that !  what a day it was to discover that we need not to be taught of mankind  ...

At a point in my life many years ago I was faced with the traditional 'christian' 'god'. 
Before this I had had many spiritual experiences and 'knew' that God was love because I had felt and witnessed the power of the spirit...But He was to me then a sort of 'unknown God'... My name for Him was 'Creator'.
But the bible was mistranslated and full of eternal torture and hell and contradictions (due to man's corruption of it) and people much older than me at the time who had studied the bible all their days were telling me I was wrong and that there was a hell and 'god' would torture most of his creatures forever and that I was possessed and my spiritual experiences were evil and from the devil.

I was faced with...'do i worship their 'god'? - Or do I worship my 'own' God?  (The indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
I wanted nothing to do with the 'christian god' but I was confused as I loved Christ...It was a very 'trying' time...So much confusion...
At the time (knowing no better (i did not know the bible had been deliberately mistranslated back then)) I tore up and took all my Bibles and mainstream 'christian' books to a skip and dumped the lot of them...I could not worship an eternal torturer.

...But I continued to seek love and truth...  And we know that such is God (God IS love)... Christ IS the 'truth'.
But back then, i was going by 'blind faith' shall we say, but led by the spirit.
But now I know that it was the Lord was with me and He brought me through but I never trusted people or was led by them. 
We must not worship/follow anyone or anything out of fear.
It was only until years later when I learned about Apokatastasis or reconciliation of all  that I was brought back to the 'true' Christian God, Who was the One Who had been guiding me all along!  Just as i 'knew'...No hell, no 'punishment' (for the sake of it).  God was all I had hoped (and knew inwardly).

To not love the world and be in the world but not of it ,  yet  God you love the world  and gave your only  one of a kind son for it , I discovered later  , He also was not of this  world .again a rejoicing in my heart  for all of mankind , we all have the LORD TO SAVE US .

When it says 'world', i understand now that it is kosmos mostly (the ordered 'system). - Not 'people' specifically but rather their 'ways'.
"Hate what is evil" yet "Love your enemies". - You know this no doubt, I am just pointing out my opinion on this.

pray for our enemies  and do good and love those that hate us ,  was a hard test for this one to realize , learning to keep silent when evil speaking comes forth accusing 
LORD PLEASE stop  the mouth !

It is very hard...I see evil people destroy the world and blind folks following along... We must walk the narrow path, or face another (second/next) death (lake of fire).
Who knows how young or old a 'soul' is?
All one can do is 'be patient towards all' and 'gently teach' etc.
I struggle being patient at times when I see the state of the world and knowing what is about to come.

You are correct about the tongue.
I know you mean to do me good, and I thank you for loving me enough to show me this...

Thank you sister.  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

When it says 'world', i understand now that it is kosmos mostly (the ordered 'system). - Not 'people' specifically but rather their 'ways'.
"Hate what is evil" yet "Love your enemies". - You know this no doubt, I am just pointing out my opinion on this.

YES ! thanks for that!  it is  the ordered system ...set in motion .


And   a little love  goes a long way  when it is  the  real   deal .. 

love what you shared also , I went though the same  suffering and  changes   from the  god of this world to  the Holy Father 

  of all light and life . I remember when I could not even read the bible at all .   It was like a foreign language  to me  and when I did it was   scary  and confusing 

  I know now it was  something  we have to grow into spiritually speaking , learn to live and live to learn  , now   LOVE the SPIRIT of Truth and the WORD of Truth   I believe they are the two witnesses   that help everyone in the time appointed  to reveal the hidden things  in every  one .  :HeartThrob:


James 1 ?16Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.


17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights,


with whom there is no change or shifting shadow.


18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.?

[dash]

love what you shared also , I went though the same  suffering and  changes   from the  god of this world to  the Holy Father 

Yes, most people believe books and words of men over the indwelling conviction of spirit, not matter how much they 'know' something is wrong.

Luke 12:57
Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right?

1 Cor 3:16
Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?

Luke 16:31
He said to him...'They will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

of all light and life . I remember when I could not even read the bible at all .   It was like a foreign language  to me  and when I did it was   scary  and confusing 

I used to believe most of it was unknowable as many still do.
It is certainly written to discern the heart and thoughts etc.

I know now it was  something  we have to grow into spiritually speaking , learn to live and live to learn  , now   LOVE the SPIRIT of Truth and the WORD of Truth   I believe they are the two witnesses   that help everyone in the time appointed  to reveal the hidden things  in every  one .  :HeartThrob:

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

I understand what you mean here from the above verse. (Spirit/word).
Speaking of the two witnesses of revelation they are 'assemblies' or 'churches'...Bodies of believers.
So this idea works singularly or speaking of groups as you will know.

Blessings Rose!

[dash]

I have heard from ET believers that they can feel eternity inside of their heart, or that they have a supernatural peace that they carry during their days, or that they have an out of this world joy that they never knew in their previous life. I was wondering if UR believers have had the same experience. I would love to hear any thoughts on the subject, or if you have had a similar experience .

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew I noticed you asking a lot of questions of a similar vein and so I hope you don't mind me making this post to respond.
I like to see questions being asked because it shows a thirst for knowledge (or for God) and shows you are not 'above' being a student (as we all are).

I really feel like God is going to move in your life soon in a big way and it has compelled me to write what I am about to write.

Firstly:
There is a way that seems right to a man...
People can believe anything and have an 'idea' (what they think is 'right') of 'peace' or 'out of this world joy'...Even murderers... (and worse).
But the devil deceives...
No doubt there is pleasure in sin or people wouldn't do it.
But sins' pleasures are not profitable and are fleeting.

Hebrews 11:24-26
24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward.

Sin fully fledged leads to death. (James 1:15).

People can show themselves to be happy and even seem like perfect saints, but very often this is very far from the truth.
We cannot know another persons' true thoughts or their hearts' intents (which is why we are not to judge (yet)) and we don't know what goes on behind someone's locked doors or whether a person has inner peace or not when their lights go out at night and they are alone with their thoughts. 
I have known a pastor who 'seemed' the perfect gent but behind closed doors, mistreated his wife.
I've known 'christians' who were such for decades who all they ever did was talk about God - suddenly lose their faith and disregard God like it was nothing.
I have known countless 'religious' leaders with big followings who were really just in it for the money and a free house...Their whole lives a sham.

We really have to seek God (Truth) out for ourselves...
Only we ourselves can know when we are grounded and settled in the faith.  Colossians 1:23
We each give (of ourselves) an 'account' and thusly we should focus on our relationship with God above all, carrying our cross...Running the race, not constantly looking over our shoulder to see where the next person is and what they are doing and how close to the Lord they 'claim' to be or wonder about their latest book about 'hell'.

What I am saying is that it is about 'Christ in YOU' when it comes to a 'personal relationship' (or 'walk') with God.
That is the spirit of love inside us, the spirit of life and truth.
How can we REALLY know how close someone is to God then? Or their dog for that matter?  Or their parent or sibling? - We can't.

Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

When you know the truth it sets you free and:-
1 John 2:27
The anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Do you really seek God?  Do you really want to know What love is?  Or are you seeking knowledge at this time more than God?
Are you seeking 'life' but not going to the saviour for that life? John 5:39
There is no right or wrong answer. - It is your walk and each of us in our own order!

If you draw near to God He will draw near to you.

Andrew, very simply... If you know what love is (Who God is) you KNOW there is no hell.  How could there be?
...What would an eternal torture in hellfire do to please 'Love'?  -  It's ridiculous and utterly nonsensical. - It's the equivalent to saying evil would be overjoyed about a loving eternity for all.
The only reason people believe it in the first place is brainwashing/deception. (From the deceiver) and of course fear.  (What will God do to me if I don't believe in hell?) - This totally irrational fear has to be overcome, denounced and cast away for the nonsense that it is.
Anyone claiming to know God/Love but worshipping an eternal torturer and claiming any sort of 'joy unfeigned' is clearly deceived.

Focus on a 'sound mind' and you will be able to spot deception.
I urge you to take a bold step in courage and faith/trust towards the living God who is love Itself.
You know what love is? I don't think you would be here otherwise. - Why are you letting people tell you their version of 'love' and not listening to the One who I believe is in you?

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Blessings brother, let me know if you would like prayers and be as specific as you like.

[Andrew]

Thanks Dash, I appreciate your words.

One of my gifts, and also my weakness in a way is that I tend to believe the testimony of People. So when someone who is a Christian says that they went to hell in a dream or near-death experience and they experienced unimaginable pain, I generally tend think they are telling the truth, which leads to me think why would God allow them to have that experience of pain if it was not true. I understand your point about the fallacy of worshipping a God that would torture people forever, but, the way I understand that ET believers get around that idea is that God has no choice in the matter, as it would be from  this perception that it is an eternal law for unrepented sin to be punished in hell.  I'm not saying that's true but it definitely would paint a different picture if true. I read a book once called "Heaven is so real" where the author says that Jesus took her to hell and showed her that her parents were in hell, and Jesus was weeping with her. I have many testimonies of hell circulating in my mind so I try to balance that out by trying to ask questions to universalists about their testimonies or what God has been showing them.

I often wonder that even if I had an experience of the absolute most perfect unconditional-blissful love that I would still be skeptical of UR just because i have read near-death experiences where they say they experienced an "unconditional perfect love" but it seems by what they also experienced while there - such as  new age ideas and other things that appear to go against scripture  - that they were not in the Truth. And some even say that drugs like DMT can simulate an experience like that. So will I ever be able to now for sure that UR is true? I have definitely been led to the UR path, and have had my share of supernatural experiences but I still sometimes wonder if I am truly saved.   

I think you are right about me seeking knowledge over love...or possibly even waiting to attain enough knowledge before I will step out in faith to act in love...i guess i'm still searching for that perfect testimony of someone who repented of their sin, and gave their entire life to Jesus, and then the Father revealed to them that UR was true. I hope you are right about God moving in my life in a big way.

Thanks brother,

Andrew

[dash]

I generally tend think they are telling the truth, which leads to me think why would God allow them to have that experience of pain if it was not true.

'Let God be true and all men liars'. Rom 3:4
Jesus said it would be a 'small flock'...'Most' people are deceived and make things up and imagine crazy things and when you probe them you discover their 'testimonys' are riddled with lies and nonsense.
Try to secure that 'sound mind', which comes from a knowledge of the truth.

When Jesus cast out 'evil spirits', modern 'christians' make the events seem like scenes from some silly Hollywood (pedowood it's callled now) movies, (I say this because what they say is invalid being 'abominable') like the exorcist or something.
In reality, what Jesus was casting out was this:

When someone is happy we say they have a cheerful spirit or they are in 'good spirits'.
If someone is sad we say their spirits are 'low'.
The same is true of evil spirits.

When Jesus cast out evil spirits of people (a spirit of hate/greed/whatever); look what happened (in reality) to the people after the evil left them...

Mark 5:15
When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

When
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2532: And, even, also, namely.

they came
ἔρχονται (erchontai)
Verb - Present Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 2064: To come, go.

to
πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

Jesus,
Ἰησοῦν (Iēsoun)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 2424: Of Hebrew origin; Jesus, the name of our Lord and two other Israelites.

they saw
θεωροῦσιν (theōrousin)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 2334: From a derivative of theaomai; to be a spectator of, i.e. Discern, (experience) or intensively (acknowledge).

the [man] who
τὸν (ton)
Article - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

had been possessed
δαιμονιζόμενον (daimonizomenon)
Verb - Present Participle Middle or Passive - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 1139: To be possessed, be under the power of an evil-spirit or demon. Middle voice from daimon; to be exercised by a d?Mon.

by the
τὸν (ton)
Article - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

legion {of demons}
λεγιῶνα (legiōna)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3003: Of Latin origin; a 'legion', i.e. Roman regiment.

sitting [there],
καθήμενον (kathēmenon)
Verb - Present Participle Middle or Passive - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 2521: To sit, be seated, enthroned; I dwell, reside. From kata; and hemai; to sit down; figuratively, to remain, reside.

clothed
ἱματισμένον (himatismenon)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 2439: To clothe, provide clothing for; pass: To be clothed. From himation; to dress.

and
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2532: And, even, also, namely.

in his right mind;
σωφρονοῦντα (sōphronounta)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 4993: To be of sound mind, be sober-minded, exercise self-control. From sophron; to be of sound mind, i.e. Sane, moderate.

and
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2532: And, even, also, namely.

they were afraid.
ἐφοβήθησαν (ephobēthēsan)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Passive - 3rd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 5399: From phobos; to frighten, i.e. to be alarmed; by analogy, to be in awe of, i.e. Revere.


We have to look to the truth (Christ); not someone's interpretation lest we ourselves be deceived. 
We must go to scripture and 'understand' what we are reading in depth, not just look at the top layer of words which are often  mistranslated and misunderstood but diligently seek...


I understand your point about the fallacy of worshipping a God that would torture people forever, but, the way I understand that ET believers get around that idea is that God has no choice in the matter, as it would be from  this perception that it is an eternal law for unrepented sin to be punished in hell.  I'm not saying that's true but it definitely would paint a different picture if true. I read a book once called "Heaven is so real" where the author says that Jesus took her to hell and showed her that her parents were in hell, and Jesus was weeping with her. I have many testimonies of hell circulating in my mind so I try to balance that out by trying to ask questions to universalists about their testimonies or what God has been showing them.

God had no choice?  Really?  Andrew, please think more about what you are saying here...
God...Who has the future and past and present laid out before Him and is everywhere and everything...Has no choice? 
The painter can't choose what it does with it's painting? (Even though the painter created the paint and paper and animates (gives life too/births) the painting?)
Can you explain to me how it is possible that God has no choice? - That the very One Who created choice itself... Has no choice...  :Chinscratch:
I bet you can't.  And why not?  Because it's not true.

You know that God can do anything.  (Or He would not be much of a god!) 
You know that God is love. 
So if God is love and can do anything what is the going to be the ONLY outcome of that?

There is a reason why the most wretched bible translations are 'appointed to be read in churches' by the rulers of this world.
It's because they deliberately want to screw up people's minds and ruin people's relationship with God so that they can be controlled.
Because 'they' cannot control someone who follows God and not man or someone who isn't controlled by money (can't be 'bought' (to sin)). 
The 'truth' (God/Christ) is dangerous to 'them', which is why the world is so fake and the media is full of lies.  If many of these little devils heard the truth they would explode from the shock.
Reading about a good god (who will burn you forever in hell) is enough to make a person insane. 
It would be like having a dad who is really nice to you and buys you things and takes you places and is great to be around and full of life and fun and joy and in the evenings he suddenly turns nasty and beats you up and burns you with fire and tortures you (all while telling you how much he loves you) - then he suddenly stops and is nice to you again. - Exactly how Satanic rulers raise their children.  (To mess up their minds and keep in controlled through fear).
The devil wants your mind screwed up.  Babylon = confusion.  The devil distorts and twists all that God does.


2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

If you think that love would or could or be profited in anyway by being infinitely evil (by torturing it's creation forever) then you need to rethink Andrew.
I love my family.  I wouldn't torture them for a single moment, the thought wouldn't even cross my mind and I am a mere man. - Think of what you are saying here about God...

I often wonder that even if I had an experience of the absolute most perfect unconditional-blissful love that I would still be skeptical of UR just because i have read near-death experiences where they say they experienced an "unconditional perfect love" but it seems by what they also experienced while there - such as  new age ideas and other things that appear to go against scripture  - that they were not in the Truth. And some even say that drugs like DMT can simulate an experience like that. So will I ever be able to now for sure that UR is true? I have definitely been led to the UR path, and have had my share of supernatural experiences but I still sometimes wonder if I am truly saved.   

Andrew when you know What love is (Who God is) you will realize that reconciliation back to the Source is the only way things could be.
When people sin THEY are the ones creating distance between them and love (God). 
Love loves... It always loves.
God is always the loving Father waiting for the lost son to come back. 
If there was any kind of 'hell' (so to speak); people create it for themselves by 'hiding' from God (hiding from love/truth/common sense/reality etc).
You are preventing yourself from entering His presence due to unbelief (concerning Who God is (love) (and 'light' with no darkness in Him AT ALL).

I think you are right about me seeking knowledge over love...or possibly even waiting to attain enough knowledge before I will step out in faith to act in love...i guess i'm still searching for that perfect testimony of someone who repented of their sin, and gave their entire life to Jesus, and then the Father revealed to them that UR was true. I hope you are right about God moving in my life in a big way.

Thanks brother,

I appreciate you hearing me and urge you to take the first step out in faith, courage and love. 
Seek first the Kingdom first and then the rest will be given to you. 
You have to take that first step in faith Andrew. 
We must 'draw near to God THEN God draws near to us'. 

Sometimes the only way to help ourselves is to help someone else...to love our neighbour. 
The command is: 'love each other'. 
Helping others helps us, as it is 'more blessed' to give than receive....
Notice that the command is not 'read lots of books' or 'listen to someone's nde testimony' or what someone said about 'hell' etc. - No. We are to love.

I challenge you to spend the next few days thinking of ways you can make everyone around you happier, more peaceful, more loving and better people in themselves and set a good example through odd-jobs, visits, kindness, gifts,...Whatever. - Think of ways to make people's day.  God Who sees your efforts will reward you...
That's how you find God and it's why most people never find God. - They never take that first step in selflessness and just 'love' with all their heart whatever the outcome or whatever this world is all about etc. 
Through fear and hardship and distress and pain and sorrow... Love, and you'll be ok.  Love is the answer because God is the answer to everything...

In this wicked age 'real life' is more 'real' when it comes to fantasy computer games than actual modern life!  Have you noticed this?!
This is why life sim games (harvest moon/minecraft/the sims/roblox) etc are the biggest sellers by a long shot I believe.
Far from being an escape 'from' reality these games seem really to be more about an escape 'to' reality, because these games are more how life should really be than life in this current wicked age.

In Stardew Valley, for example; the game begins with a man seeking peace in his life and so he leaves his meaningless robotic factory job for a big crooked corporation for a simple life in the country, getting to know people and forming real relationships with others (not talking to people on a computer), and getting his hands dirty and working with animals and nature etc...Just how life is supposed to be...
Yeah, neighbours 'should' speak to each other just like in 'childs' games' like animal crossing. 
You 'should' be able to build a home where you like and how you like from the resources (trees etc) God made for ALL of us. 
Yeah you 'should' be able to keep livestock and plant crops and not be bundled into 'smart cities' or tiny apartment blocks.
Yeah you should be free to explore the world without a 'convid' pass or other's approval or forced to have a toxic vaccine or wear a mask to cover what God made.
And so I understand why people are so confused nowadays...Many have no real knowledge of 'real' life. 
But you must see what real life is; it's very important. 
You have to get the scales off your eyes...
Christ came to give us real life...Life 'in all it's fullness'.

1 Timothy 6:19
...that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
You need to see this world for what it really is.

At the end of the day Love surpasses knowledge etc. 
We don't have to know everything about the world and the ins and outs of everything. 
In the end the person with the most love will go furthest in the kingdom.
Love covers over a multitude of sins and it must have first and last say in our lives because God (Who is Love) is Alpha and Omega. 
But you can know 'truth'. 
Jesus told us this. 
He told us he was the truth.
People can have opinions but at the end of the day there is 'absolute truth' (God). 
Jobs friends had 'opinions' but all of them were wrong about God.
There is not 'two truths' or 'my truth' and 'your truth', because God (truth) is One and we are to come together as One in 'truth' and in love.
What I am saying is that you can be absolutely certain there is no hell...It is NOT an opinion. - It is nowhere to be found in scripture.
When you come to know truth you will be able to 'test the spirits' and be able to spot a spirit of error.

It is up to you whether you consider what I say or not.
I ask that you don't just read this once quickly and overlook most of it but really dwell on the things I've said in deep prayer. 
Spirituality has to be nourished...

We must make sense in our own minds and sort out an issue once for all then move on from it established and grounded in truth...Not keep going back to the same 'baby food' again and again.
A person has to seek till they find, and having found the treasure you buy the whole 'plot' of land where you found it.

If you seek God, (God being love); then you must seek love and put love into practice and get to know Christ by 'walking a mile in his shoes' (walk as Jesus walked)... Carry your cross and follow Him.

[dash]

and have had my share of supernatural experiences but I still sometimes wonder if I am truly saved.   

Andrew, what does 'saved' mean to you?

[Andrew]

Posted by Dash

"Andrew, what does 'saved' mean to you?"

In the context that i was speaking in, I was referring to whether I will make it into Heaven...

[dash]

Posted by Dash

"Andrew, what does 'saved' mean to you?"

In the context that i was speaking in, I was referring to whether I will make it into Heaven...

Ok.  What is 'heaven' to you?  Is it a state (of mind) (becoming 'Christlike') or a literal place after you die or a relationship with God? - How do you see heaven?

Do you feed the carnal nature more than the spiritual? 
In other words do you consider yourself to be more 'in Adam' or more 'in Christ'?
Are you being 'renewed' daily (getting closer to God each day) or are you getting worse and more sinful and further away from God each day?

We have to check ourselves that we are 'in the faith'.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

[marie glen]

Amen.. I think one of the things to trust is God (surely?) has done all things as He has, in order to bring about the best of all possible outcomes.. The flood? When, quote - every thought (thus act?) was evil. How soon before total self destruction?
    As His taking responsibility, saying He the LORD created evil, I figure he did that indirectly - not like it was He acting in Hitler and the like! - But by endowing thinking and reasoning ability, it changed, of course, everything! ..Don?t you think? But.. what was/is the other option?
    And why put that visible option of straying/imperfection in the garden if you?re not going to let it tun its course? (Which is and will prove to all in heaven and earth the utter futility of straying away from God/Perfection/Life which can  only ever result in trouble (tribulation) calamity, ruin (apocalypse) and ultimately death (not being) - But! - God is savior of all! - 1Tim.4:10.
    We live in an age where many are more concerned for the criminal than the victim. God is not like that! When He had to take some folks out - like those burning children alive to Molech - the very next thing they know, resurrection / per these verses how the Lord said - all those in the tombs (graves) will hear His voice and will come forth ..some in the resurrection of life, and some in the resurrection of judgment (Jn.5:28-29). Which is, quote, after the thousand years (Rev.20:5).
     And he said, Matthew 25:46 - these will rise into aionian-kolasis *AGE*LasTing-CORRECTION (translated, everlasting punishment) but the righteous into aionian life (the millennium, called THE age).
      I also believe Jude 7 tells us lake of fire is prophecy, not a place! As taught, but event(s). 2Pet.3:10; Rev.20:9,10; 2Pet.3:12-13. Not exactly the fire that purifies our hearts and minds (some during what is called today and the rest during day age of correction.. The long second advent patterned acter the Fsll holy days, like his first fulfiiled the Spring ones.

     His long 2nd advent?
I.  Trumpets of Rev & return at
    the 7th - 10days/1000yrs
II. ?the judgment? 5days/500yrs,
    (as) Day of Atonement
III. Tabernacles! (2Pet.3:12-13;
     Rev.21:1-5; Lev.23:23-36)

[dash]

Amen.. I think one of the things to trust is God (surely?) has done all things as He has, in order to bring about the best of all possible outcomes.. The flood? When, quote - every thought (thus act?) was evil. How soon before total self destruction?
    As His taking responsibility, saying He the LORD created evil, I figure he did that indirectly - not like it was He acting in Hitler and the like! - But by endowing thinking and reasoning ability, it changed, of course, everything! ..Don?t you think? But.. what was/is the other option?
    And why put that visible option of straying/imperfection in the garden if you?re not going to let it tun its course? (Which is and will prove to all in heaven and earth the utter futility of straying away from God/Perfection/Life which can  only ever result in trouble (tribulation) calamity, ruin (apocalypse) and ultimately death (not being) - But! - God is savior of all! - 1Tim.4:10.
    We live in an age where many are more concerned for the criminal than the victim. God is not like that! When He had to take some folks out - like those burning children alive to Molech - the very next thing they know, resurrection / per these verses how the Lord said - all those in the tombs (graves) will hear His voice and will come forth ..some in the resurrection of life, and some in the resurrection of judgment (Jn.5:28-29). Which is, quote, after the thousand years (Rev.20:5).
     And he said, Matthew 25:46 - these will rise into aionian-kolasis *AGE*LasTing-CORRECTION (translated, everlasting punishment) but the righteous into aionian life (the millennium, called THE age).
      I also believe Jude 7 tells us lake of fire is prophecy, not a place! As taught, but event(s). 2Pet.3:10; Rev.20:9,10; 2Pet.3:12-13. Not exactly the fire that purifies our hearts and minds (some during what is called today and the rest during day age of correction.. The long second advent patterned acter the Fsll holy days, like his first fulfiiled the Spring ones.

     His long 2nd advent?
I.  Trumpets of Rev & return at
    the 7th - 10days/1000yrs
II. ?the judgment? 5days/500yrs,
    (as) Day of Atonement
III. Tabernacles! (2Pet.3:12-13;
     Rev.21:1-5; Lev.23:23-36)

What I see from the flood is that God gave people a chance to escape it. - But they didn't take it.  They were too busy with their wickedness to notice.
It's like with Peter and Ananias. - People are quick to say 'GOD KILLED HIM!  POOR GUY!'  No...The scriptures don't say that.  It was God's righteous judgement upon sin. 
'Hearing' what Peter said (knowing what Peter said was true), (guilt-ridden etc) Ananias died on the spot. 
Guilt is an awful thing.  Did Judas kill himself because of guilt perhaps? (because he let God down).
The deluge was an inevitable consequence of sin as God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but sin must be judged for God to be God (just).  Sin = The consequences of sin.
Even stupidity = the penalty for being stupid.  God's laws are in place and don't change.
It is just as REV 1:1 tells us that 'these things 'must' occur' in the very first line of revelation. -  Evil is rife right now...It is in every dirty nook and cranny of society and it MUST be done away with or these evil people WILL destroy the world and not only that but the good things in the world as they rule as Kings, including the planet itself.
God cannot have this...
God's judgements are upon evil (in totality).
A new world is coming!  :girlheart:

'As in the days of Noah' (will be the coming of the Son of man). 
Here we see a repeat of those days (which are already upon us) and how many realize or even care?  How many are prepared?  And thus how many will be saved? 
We are called to be ready, sober, vigilant etc by our 'Master'. - If we are not is He really our master?

Evil (devil) is just a necessity to know good (God)...
2 Cor 4:6
It is God who said, Out of darkness light is to shine

...There is no other way.  If God did not do this none of us would 'be'... At all. 
All of this is of God (in Him we live and move and 'have our 'be-ing').
Without this contrast It would be like looking at a two-tone painting, then removing one of the tones - there would be blankness and that means no meaning or purpose or knowing etc.
It says God does not vex the sons of men 'willingly'.  (We also do not want to suffer), but we know that afterwards we reap rewards...A crown, since anything of value such as honor etc must be earned and cannot be bought.  We need God to do this for us as it is not in us to 'choose' discomfort, and yet: - no discomfort - no comfort.

2 Timothy 2:6
The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

II Timothy 4:8
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day

Hebrews 12:11
11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

Lamentations 3:33
For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

It will all be good in the end.  (God all in all!).
But... I don't want to be handed my 'test' results back and find I have to resit the test while I see everyone else entering the 'feast'.  ... There is no 'hell' but there is judgement for sure, as nothing impure will enter.
I find the main thing now is to check myself each moment whether I am in Adam or in Christ.
Again; for God to be God He must be just and any just person wouldn't have it any other way.

Blessings Marie.