2020

[GodIsLove]

2020 has been a very tumultuous year.
I?m interested to see some of Tentmaker?s member?s insights or words from God about what is happening.
I?m sad that the site was down for so long that it may have caused some members to give up and leave.
I personally have had a lot of mental energy wasted on what is going on in 2020. It seems some big things are happening (IMO these big things are negative in nature) and there?s a sense of foreboding about what is going to happen.

I am looking forward to anyone?s input!

[marie glen]

H i! Godislove! I?m so happy to see you here! :gimmefive: :hiya:

I?ve studied bible prophecy for a long time.. and of course there are many, many views concerning it. But it seems to me it is - slowly - (I hope very slowly!?) lining up.

Honestly the biggest thing I see is called the false prophet. Now most folks believe the false prophet is the little horn of prophet Daniel, or what is popularly called the antiChrist (AC). Which they also believe will be identified by Rev.13:13 but that indentifies an office. Which I will leave that there except to point to Seal 6 in chapter 6, but that is difficult as the seal is described as its FULL effects from its first to very last..

But I have for a very long time thought of the false prophet/teacher/teaching whose strong delusion causes a great falling away from the faith (western civilization and culture falling away from the faith). That the false prophet, in a sense, began with a man, but is more and he has many modern miracles and wonders up his sleeve. (One of them is/was the capability of 13:13.)

This false prophet/teacher/teaching has in essence seated man as tho in the temple of God, showing himself to be god highest power deciding good and evil.

This false prophet, not a person. Has definitely arrived more fully upon the scene - in 2020.

I?m not saying we are all of a sudden on the brink of the inevitable collapse of all things built on sand and not upon the Rock. As I pretty strongly believe we are, in Revelation, where we have been for sometime (long to us). Being exactly at Rev.7:1, which immediately follows(ed) the breaking open of seal six from off the scroll which scroll is the vision. Rev.7:1 - four angels hold back the winds (of seal 6, chap.6) lest they harm earth, trees or seas..

So I expect a huge sign before things escalate in real earnest. An interruption of 7:1, the holding back of those winds. (I actually felt a weeping in my spirit just now..)

I may as well continue, as the rest is easy. After the 7:1 holding back is interrupted, the huge many headed beast (of today(!) Ps.2:1 - why do THE NATIONS rage? ..caps in place of quotation marks which are not working here, lol) - the huge many headed beast and the 13:13 -office- will step up - and bring in the notorious 7 year peace! peace! treaty with the many (Dan.9:27). And the two will pretty much morph into one..

The rest of the story, as they say, is (imo) in the math riddle of Dan.12:11-12.

Also Rev.12 can be read as an insert and total history on its own, with Mt.23:39 as cross ref. to verse 17 (also Rev.16:14,15,16). When read this way is very revealing! I don?t quite know how it is missed.. And verse 12:16 cross references Rev. chapters 17 and 18.

Notice how (Rev.17:16) the ten horns/seats/kings of the huge many headed beast will devour wicked $ity babylon (and on, lol). Socialism will finally do away with Capitalism gone both extreme, and pornos the Greek word translated harlot.

Happy the one who waits, and comes to... Daniel 12, verse 12. [Not a 7 year tribulation, a seven year treaty, broken in the middle with Israel [of course! or, go figure!] Then! 3.5 Hebrew years plus 30 days (a Hebrew leap month?) later will be set up the final desolating abomination, this time upon the human temple meant for the Spirit of God(? but I am pretty sure of this). And, HAPPY is the one who waits, and comes to, 45 days later. the last ten days (Rev.2:10) escalating from cannot buy or sell to will be killed?

I know this may be more than you asked, but truly, I just cannot help myself.

Oh! I wanted to mention one more thing. The Rev. vision is told 3 times:
    6:1-11:19
     ch.12 as insert (mt.23:39 w/v.17)
     13:1-19:11
My confirmation in the Word is how the verses in this start (6:1) and ends (19:11) with a rider on a white horse. Many lock the vision in a box labeled 7 years only, but it spans from the gospel riding forth, and throughout the age, with the rider on the white horse.. conquering and to conqueropenly victorious over powers and principalities when He rise from the grave which could not hold Him!

p.s. see? the two cast into lake of fire (man made) at the retufn if the Lord, the (huge, many headed) beast and the false prophet, are not persons! But institutions of man.. previously I did not realize there is indeed an institution or institutions we could call the false prophet..

[GodIsLove]

Hi Marie, I?ve missed you and everyone else!

I love the interpretation of the false prophet and beasts being institutions and I so agree that it seems to fit. I don?t totally know how I view revelation but at the very least that seems to be true throughout human history right? Human and satanic created institutions that lead humankind astray and that are worshiped. I keep thinking that 2020 seems to be a replay of humans trying to create a utopia but instead of having a spiritual connection they worship ?experts? and government and celebrities etc as saviors instead of connecting to God and being humble. I feel like there are factions in the US that want to burn it all down and recreate society in THEIR image. There seems to be a lot of spiritual warfare underlying the politics of today but so many are blind to what is going on. I usually don?t speak in terms of Satan and spiritual warfare because I used to like to focus on God and love but man, it?s so apparent to me this year that there is something going on behind the scenes.

Love you all, and thanks for the reply Marie!!!

PS if you want to clarify, what institutions do you think are at play? I think the media, government and Hollywood/celebrities are all connected. Social media is being used as well.

This year we decided to try to simplify and remove ourselves from the world?s systems. We are going to homeschool, we got chickens and have a garden. We hope to move somewhere with more land and have more of a little farm. I just have a feeling of foreboding, that we need to pull away from the world right now. Some people think I?m right and some think I am probably crazy, but it?s just a gut feeling I have.

[marie glen]

I think you?re right about moving away from the world system a bit. Also about the institutions.

I think history reveals a lot. Why always and constantly throughout history this crazy idea of totalitarianism? And over and over some fall in line with it. I guess like you say, trying to create a utopia. I think mankind?s last great idol (tho now I see two) are like the ancient king and priest ruling alliances. Today yes, atheism, communism, as the hidden goal.. seems to be wanted by many.. media, hollywood and extremists. Ps.2:1 says why do the nations rage? And yes it does seem to be Satanic inspired. Burn down the order there is and replace it. Though probably not with what the burners think. Which is rather sad. The adversary seems able to oppress and push at people, until some want to turn violent. And I also remember movies like -Animal House- and the like and the so called sexual revolution that didn?t help the culture at all, and has made life difficult for many what with a sort of falling apart of the family structure.
    So many things eating away at the foundations. I think prophecy reveals the main players in the final scenario of this playing out of imperfection. I figure God is both Life itself and is perfect-Mt.5:48. Which makes imperfect to be the opposite of life, with the fruit being troubles, ruin (noT forever hallelujah) and ultimately death, opposite of Life/God/Perfection (but God is savior of all! :banana: ) Biblically called tribulation, apocalypse, death ...Which God warned of. Why did He include in the garden a visible option of imperfection/disobedience/straying? I have to think it?s like just how does He create, genuinely, able to think and reason beings (His own family!) AND keep paradise/perfection intact? Would we really be thoroughly convinced except through experience? And see how -all in heaven and Earth- are taking this journey/lesson all together at once. Plus I think -the judgment- the one the Lord talked about will be a great ?day? of intense review of all history. I think we?ll need the millennium to prepare ourselves for that second resurrection (Rev.20) and that review and all of histoy?s trauma. I don?t believe those who (through no fault of their own) died still in their sins, as the Lord called it, will rise perfected, but our day of atonement (and correction-kolasis) is during what is called today (Heb.4?) but theirs will be during the judgment (which I believe will last 500 years because of the Fall holy days - Lev.23, and their pattern (Trumpets-10 days to - Day of Atonement - 5 days to Tabernacles :banana: :dsunny: God will now -tabernacle/dwell/tent with humanity upon earth made new :friendstu:  )
   
Yes, -beasts- in prophecy are human governings.. and I think a crises (real or manufactured?) will bring about, finally that dream of one body more or less governing the world.. one waiting in the wings and has some bad players involved - dictators and the like sitting in some of its seats.. even sharia trying to be weaved into it..

I think more self sufficiency could be key. Especially the final 45 days ? Daniel 12:11-12. The Lord is able - Rev.7 (with the chapters TWO groups, one counted one too many to count) if they can be kept safe from scorching sun (a symbol?) He can keep safe.

I?ve wandered a bit.. I never expected the false prophet to become so obvious and in play.. always thought sort of behind the scenes role, just providing the capabilities.. first of man to produce a lake of fire and then the notorious 666 apparatus whatever that turns out to be. These capabilities sum up the 3 main players.. which in Revelation, I think there is five (a pentagram). A world  governing body - why do -the nations- rage; modern ?science?; the office which released fat man and little boy; babylon the great and wicked $ity w/ its corrupting of culture and family; and its forehead/psyche opposite the one of Rev.7 which is all confusion - mystery babble.

But God?s creation is still beautiful! And -The lion will eat straw like the ox, the bear will graze with the cow, Is.11:7 :cloud9:

Have a great day GodIsLove!

[jugghead]

I have always considered myself blessed that I have not been a worrier, I have always had the mindset of "everything will work out" this was even before my experience in 2005.

I myself view myself as "I'm in the world, but I am not of the world", to clarify, I do not read newspapers, I do not watch the news, In short I refrain from any outside influences that could stir up any kind of anxiety or fear.

In a sense, I live a very uneventful life, basically the same thing over and over in this physical existence, I do not want any excitement in this existence, all my excitement is not of this world, and it always comes in the form of being "shown" something and then "understanding" His written word in different forms.

My job is a blessing, I am a truck driver who is always by myself, I use the term "by myself" because I am not alone, in other words, I am physically alone but not spiritually alone, I always have my thoughts of what He shows me through the things in this world. God, using all the physical things in this world and revealing the spiritual implications hidden within each one.

It is because of this, hardly any negativity ever enters into my thoughts.

I do get a little upset at some of the crazy drivers out in the world, but when I react angrily to something they did, the very next moment I am apologizing to Father for getting angry. Another one is when I see billboards stating "Where are you going, heaven or hell" and gives a number that includes a phone number like "83 for truth", I can't help but feel sorry for those who don't know the peace that goes beyond the understanding of this world.

In short, I do my best to refrain from any outside influences that can destroy the peace I have when I am in conversation in my mind and heart, meditating on the examples He shows me.

As I have heard MG say many times, she basically lives a hermits life, as do I, letting Him guide me in my thoughts (and probably her too).

Blessings GIL

P.S. I felt the need to write something when I ran across your post from last march about "the state of the world", As I have already mentioned, I do not know the state of the world, only the state of my relationship with His Spirit, for He keeps me from the state of the world.

[GodIsLove]

It?s good to hear different experiences and perspectives. I am somewhat hermit-ish because I am not working, my husband is working from home and we are homeschooling. But I think being younger and having kids also means I am more invested in how the world is because I know some day they will be entering it. The things I am worried about have nothing to do with hell believers and more to do with things like the government, the media, the division among different religious and political and racial and socioeconomic groups. I just see so many fruits of evil everywhere: pride, arrogance, selfishness, hate, greed, deceit. I want to just remove myself and my family and we are doing that on many levels, but it?s just very difficult to live in the world while also not being of the world, especially when friends bring up current events or I read about sinister things that many consider conspiracy theories but that have a lot of hard evidence to prove if you go down those routes of reading and researching. I don?t want to focus my mind on these things so I do it for a time and then stop for a while just to clear my mind. I guess I am struggling with it, with accepting that things are the way that they are. Sometimes my hope is affected because it seems so bleak, and ?it will all turn out ok in the end? is something I believe but it still doesn?t help when we aren?t at ?the end? yet.

[Andrew]

I feel like there are two different ways this could go, or perhaps they both are intertwined with each other and it will all work out in the end. I see a lot of Christians talking about this being the end times, and I've heard Christians say that they will try to implant us with a chip, or we will have to enter a virtual simulation (Haven't really heard Christians talk on this but I have contemplated it), or/and merge with machines, and even the Wormwood prophecy that an asteroid is scheduled to hit the earth in nine years. I have felt in the last year that God was saying that like you, GodIsLove, I will have to move out of the world, and live on farm land. And that perhaps by pulling away from the world - this will be protection from whatever destruction is being planned for earth. But I've also been guided towards this Kingdom Age mentality that some Christians are talking about where they engage with Heaven to bring Heaven to earth - I talk about this in my The Futuristic Maze thread.   

https://tentmaker.org/forum/humor-poems-songs-movies/the-futuristic-maze-poem-movie-spoken-word/msg217381/#new 

So perhaps both ideas could be true. If it necessary for the Christian to be physically separated from the "world" - I think we have probably have at least seven years to make the move as there are still - in my opinion - way too many Christians who have not received that revelation yet - unless it's a Noah's ark situation where only a few are saved when the destruction hits, and the new world arrives...     

[rosered]

   

2020 has been a very tumultuous year.
I?m interested to see some of Tentmaker?s member?s insights or words from God about what is happening.
I?m sad that the site was down for so long that it may have caused some members to give up and leave.
I personally have had a lot of mental energy wasted on what is going on in 2020. It seems some big things are happening (IMO these big things are negative in nature) and there?s a sense of foreboding about what is going to happen.

I so agree with you sis !!
  I believe that everyone scatters into their own place when the Shepherd is struck , Jesus said so
Babylon is going down to me sis . 

and Her pride  will not  get away  scott free , but is to be dealt with by Gods own hand of power . Isaiah 13



The Bible says that ?the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God? (1 Corinthians 3:19). There is no amount of human intellect or skills sufficient to accomplish the work of God effectively. It is not by power nor by might or abilities of our own, but by the Spirit of God, that we will live fruitful lives in the Lord?s service on this earth.

Zechariah 4:6  So he said to me, ?This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ?Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,? says the Lord Almighty.

It is troublesome times  for sure . any and all pride will be humbled .
   I was given the scripture   in  remembrance to help when in trouble over judging wrong  , being earthly  minded .
Get behind me satan you are not mindful of the things of God but the things that be of men just like Peter was told , it was those negative thoughts that stumbles us all  :sigh:
 
Mark 8:33
Turning and looking at His disciples, Jesus rebuked Peter and said, "Get behind Me, Satan! For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

Romans 14:13
Therefore let us stop judging one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

Colossians 3:2
Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.

Really got to keep GOD first  and than everything else will fall into place  it seems
  I do get out of line  and off the path of Life  at times sis

    the struggle is real .

[CHB]

Hi aLL,

I guess I see things a little different than most. I think a lot of Revelation has already been fulfilled, most back in 70AD. I do believe that some is yet to happen.  Don't know how many share this view?

CHB 

[rosered]

Hi aLL,

I guess I see things a little different than most. I think a lot of Revelation has already been fulfilled, most back in 70AD. I do believe that some is yet to happen.  Don't know how many share this view?

CHB

  I do also CHB , but knowing there is nothing new under the sun , makes me think that   GODS WORD is perpetual , it is always in times  and seasons   and always applies  on some level  to all of us , not apart from what already  is or happened  to others Collectively .

1never ending or changing.
"deep caves in perpetual darkness"
Similar:
everlasting
never-ending
eternal
permanent
unending
endless
without end
lasting
long-lasting
constant
abiding
enduring
perennial
timeless
ageless
deathless
undying
immortal
unfailing
unchanging
never-changing
changeless
unvarying
unfading
invariable
immutable
indissoluble
indestructible
imperishable
sempiternal
perdurable
uninterrupted
continuous
unremitting
unceasing
persistent
unbroken

2.
occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted. in and out of seasons and times that we all are  experiencing  going though the same things over  again  directly and indirectly as to  being  corruptible  and also incorruptible imagery .

[marie glen]

It?s good to hear different experiences and perspectives. I am somewhat hermit-ish because I am not working, my husband is working from home and we are homeschooling. But I think being younger and having kids also means I am more invested in how the world is because I know some day they will be entering it. The things I am worried about have nothing to do with hell believers and more to do with things like the government, the media, the division among different religious and political and racial and socioeconomic groups. I just see so many fruits of evil everywhere: pride, arrogance, selfishness, hate, greed, deceit. I want to just remove myself and my family and we are doing that on many levels, but it?s just very difficult to live in the world while also not being of the world, especially when friends bring up current events or I read about sinister things that many consider conspiracy theories but that have a lot of hard evidence to prove if you go down those routes of reading and researching. I don?t want to focus my mind on these things so I do it for a time and then stop for a while just to clear my mind. I guess I am struggling with it, with accepting that things are the way that they are. Sometimes my hope is affected because it seems so bleak, and ?it will all turn out ok in the end? is something I believe but it still doesn?t help when we aren?t at ?the end? yet.

:thumbsup: I think about my grand daughters.. ages 21, 12 and 2.. My adult children are strong individuals, sometimes too much so, lol.
   I think there?s two ways to be prepared, spiritually - Psalm 91. And then worldwise, imo. A little preparation in case the grocery stores, etc. collapse.. But I believe the critical days will only be 45 - because of Dan.12:11-12. With only the last ten being life threatening :mshock: S.O.S. - 8:14 - ?Come away my beloved and be like the deer on the mountains..?

I think the signs gjven are very clear snd precise.. but ppl think I?m nuts, lol, (or interest in that part of the Word and purpose means you?re afraid, oye) but I think I get nudges and confirmations from the Lord. And when He teaches something, He builds upon it..

I?m starting to think all genuine believers will be supernaturally empowered in the last days.. Perhaps the two witnesses (so empowered!) are the two groups of Rev.7 (towards the end of 7:1,3). And like Stephen who was looking up at the Lord while the stones barely registered?

? Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past.? Isaiah 26:20 [But then, last ten days? ?Come away my beloved..? And what if verses like Rev?s - He will lead to springs of living/fresh waters - are not only spiritual but literal as well? As He iS so vety clever.. Rev.7?s sealing on the foreheads could also disperse all the confusion.. and make those clear signs stand out.. (Dan.9:27 w/ 12:11-12 + Rev.2:10).

[GodIsLove]

Hi aLL,

I guess I see things a little different than most. I think a lot of Revelation has already been fulfilled, most back in 70AD. I do believe that some is yet to happen.  Don't know how many share this view?

CHB

  I do also CHB , but knowing there is nothing new under the sun , makes me think that   GODS WORD is perpetual , it is always in times  and seasons   and always applies  on some level  to all of us , not apart from what already  is or happened  to others Collectively .

1never ending or changing.
"deep caves in perpetual darkness"
Similar:
everlasting
never-ending
eternal
permanent
unending
endless
without end
lasting
long-lasting
constant
abiding
enduring
perennial
timeless
ageless
deathless
undying
immortal
unfailing
unchanging
never-changing
changeless
unvarying
unfading
invariable
immutable
indissoluble
indestructible
imperishable
sempiternal
perdurable
uninterrupted
continuous
unremitting
unceasing
persistent
unbroken

2.
occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted. in and out of seasons and times that we all are  experiencing  going though the same things over  again  directly and indirectly as to  being  corruptible  and also incorruptible imagery .

I agree with both CHB and Rose, I think that time is not linear but a corkscrew in that there are seasons and cycles and that things have happened but will also happen again, the corkscrew is also moving in a forward fashion toward the ?end? so there?s progress as well  as regressions and repetitions.

I know things work out in the end (ultimate end when all is reconciled to God), but I tend to think that what we are in for in the immediate future isn?t a short process but a longer, more drawn out process. I would be relieved to have someone tell me otherwise, but in my gut it seems like we aren?t looking at a relief, peace, millennium period, etc for a while. I don?t think things have gotten quite bad enough yet to say it?s nearly over, I think it?s all just revving up.

777, when you say it?s going to be a third or fourth of the world geographically, you probably mean it will be centered in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe (some crazy stuff is happening down there with authoritarian measures), 76% of the population lives in Asia and Africa, so the rest of the world is roughly 1/4 of the population and are mostly ?western? countries.

[GodIsLove]

I am somewhat averse to only insulating myself to one view or interpretation which is why I like this forum to take from each person?s perspective. Everyone on here is biases toward their own beliefs and interpretations and so I try to sift and find the truth within all, but also realize we are all humans and therefore fallible.

Chiastic yes, the beginning and the end line up.

[GodIsLove]

I think the plain reading of the Bible without looking into translations and doctrinal influence would lead people to fall into 3 categories:
Eternal hell
Annihilation
Universal reconciliation

Which is why we have these 3 interpretations. Just showing the Bible verses is futile because of bias and doctrine and previous beliefs.

I found the truth of UR via an answer to a prayer, yes it was via scripture but it was only after my seeking and God answering did I get the truth.

So I think bible and personal revelation go hand in hand and both are needed for the truth.

[rosered]

 

  What a blessing what you all have shared .  :dsunny: I am loving this  deep and beautiful amount of sharing thoughts of  truth ........
  I pretty much keep to myself these days   what   I believe is the Holy Spirit teaching in all levels of lives

I agree that the world is going to get much worse  and there will be a lot of quenching the HOLY Spirit  by resisting and wrestling BY    the worldly wisdom  being   the carnal mind of death  that is a torment of itself  though covetousness.always desiring more and more and more and never  filled , but it is an empty  dark hole that can never be  satisfied   though violence and boundless , it has no boundaries    , but is always encroaching  and has no limits ,always  robbing and stealing and killing  our peace and joy and Holy Spirit

the curse of covetousness is 
a strong desire or will  to conquer  anyone doing good to obtain their  wills and strong desires  to please God and yet it is only going to please the worldly wisdom / satan that is a true enemy against the Holy Spirit  by  a gathering up  of many to bring on a cause  or standard though brainwashing and a wearing down of the  Holy ones    that is FAKE AS CAN BE AND  IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP going as it is . to me it is a prideful spirit of Babylon that creates confusion and every evil work  by manipulating and controlling  though constant brain washing /floods of Lies and calling it the truth  .


noun. eager or excessive desire, especially for wealth or possessions:Social media so often encourages us to compare ourselves to others, inspiring covetousness and insecurity.

What's the Bible definition of covetousness?
covetous, greedy, acquisitive, grasping, avaricious mean having or showing a strong desire for especially material possessions. covetous implies inordinate desire often for another's possessions.   for me it namely  their servitude!!!!!!!!!!!!  using them up and casting them away like  they mean  nothing .sucking them dry and moving on the next one .grrrrrrrrrrrr!!  always needy and greedy playing the role of the  wise  one or the victim !! narcissistic spirits of usury ! for their own gain and control of a miserable existence  , empty and vain souls  and for what ?? to look good in front of others ??  .

The carnal mind is the result of  evil  getting its way by reaping the  fruit of its doings .
  I believe  that the TRUTH is  also  seeds of good planted in our hearts /minds     

  when you are trying to please God  the world is going to hate you and use you for its own gain , being slaves to sin , maybe not your own sins of guilt and shame before God  , but to their sin  of pride of life!!! sin is error , missing the call of Wisdom from above !  sins are also demonic in nature that try to drain you by never measuring up , we have failed to keep our own boundaries in check !
What we can do ,willingly and with a  precious heart of charity , without the Lord we can do nothing and nothing is what it will always amount to !


Babylon  is always  thinking you are better off than others  because you are saved because they say so  , if you keep doing what ever they say ..........

Look at Christianity  for example  , the foolishness of preaching   1 Cor 1 The Message of the Cross

  is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the whole world !!!  the grace of GOD  though Jesus Christ , the gift of LOVE and forgiveness  for all sin and errors  of the temporary life of learning and failing and stumbling  though it
but the inward man of the heart is being renewed day by day   as a stronger   spiritual being led by  the HEAD OF ALL AUTHORITY  given all  death  [tasted death for every one ]   to be  raised up into life again .


?20Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

22Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom,?

  God uses the most base and despised things of the world to prove His power  and Wisdom 

1 cor 1 Wisdom from God
?27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

28 He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast in His presence.?

It is all just this amazing humbling experience learning to let God do His entire  work  for all .
  LOVE will always prevail  over the knowledge one has been given ,  to know GOD is to LOVE GOD for God is love .

[rosered]

I think the plain reading of the Bible without looking into translations and doctrinal influence would lead people to fall into 3 categories:
Eternal hell
Annihilation
Universal reconciliation

Which is why we have these 3 interpretations. Just showing the Bible verses is futile because of bias and doctrine and previous beliefs.

I found the truth of UR via an answer to a prayer, yes it was via scripture but it was only after my seeking and God answering did I get the truth.

So I think bible and personal revelation go hand in hand and both are needed for the truth.

  Yes !! indeed the WORD  IN POWER , The truth sets us free
  How?  by the Holy SPIRIT   , it  shows us  what pleases God  by comforting our  thoughts  that seek his love and approval .


to have a relationship  that is honest and REAL! 
  We cannot pretend with GOD like we can with humans . 
the TRUTH  can withstand all adversity  with grace  abounding the more,  LOVE COVERS all errors /sins
  not that we want to error from the truth  , God knows our hearts better than we do ,  that is for sure .

Learning to handle the Word of Life , to me,  comes though the  trials and errors  as the ability  to understand  comes with age and exercising grace


.grace is "the love and mercy given to us by God because God desires us to have it, not necessarily because of anything we have done to earn it". It is not a created substance of any kind. ...


It is an attribute of God that is most like our Heavenly Father that we  desire  to  be most like .
HAVING  the same nature of goodness and mercy helps us to overcome the world   that usually gains power though the love of violence , not the love of GOD ,  that He desires no one to perish  but come to the knowledge of the TRUTH to be set free  from all  forms of evil  doing .
the fruit of our doings makes all the difference , our contentment  comes from pleasing GOD and knowing what LOVE is .

[rosered]

22Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom,?

Thank you for that!


This is a great passage.
What is your understanding of this passage?

Well lol .. at first   the Jews were given the Word of God but used their own wisdom / carnal and worldly wisdom
  they never come to the knowledge of the truth , they used it as a weapon of power over all other nations  , thinking they were chosen and special  and despised anyone else that was not like them  ,
  I also think that GOD did this on purpose  to TEACH  with
  Suffering  for doing good and suffering for doing evil , the world will hate you if you suffer for doing  good , but God will love you 

  and hate comes though calling evil good and good evil, confusion/ Babylon  of seeking praise  for doing what is right in the first place !

  they called hate GOD   !   very ignorant but not accountable in ignorance , it is when you LEARN  better and STILL  call GOD hatred   .

despising and splitting hairs    over every little thing , how to be a FAKE .

I believe GOD opened up  and showed us all  what LOVE IS AT THE CROSS  and yet many hated  the TRUTH

GOD LOVES EVERYONE   WOW !     Babylon cannot play GOD  any longer .

I  believe that  God grants wisdom  to those whom seek His face  and it is a very personal  and small path that leads to LIFE

What God allows us to learn of HIM  by , in the here and the now .

All will come to repentance eventually  but not without excuse  ,We are reaping what we sow ,  by the  law of boundaries
as you  judge so shall you be judged   , loving those whom you do see now in need of TRUTH , share yours with them if they want to be free of sin in error  or let God teach them  as they come in last place .

  I see the race that Paul speaks of as a race to GLORY OF GOD   1 Cor 9   Paul was a seed sower of truth that righteousness would spring   forth  in   Truth ,  is Jesus Christ LIVING TREE . the Word made flesh that would not return to God void and empty , but bear much fruit of the Holy SPIRITS  abundance  .

but
in MATT 12

  Good and Bad Fruit
?35The good man brings good things out of his good store of treasure, and the evil man brings evil things out of his evil store of treasure.

36But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.??

I see the first shall be last and the last shall be first  , Wisdom IS  justified of her children /seeds of God /love

over the seeds of evil /adversity , they called Jesus a friend of sinners a glutton and wine bibber  , not knowing the TRUTH of the matter and calling evil good and good evil ...
God's wisdom, however, is shown to be true by all who accept it."

[rosered]

I must say that all  flesh is condemned already to die ....
but most judge the flesh  and God has told us that no flesh pleases Him
  so I believe many are beating a dead horse ..    it is a pointless and useless task and weary
but we do not want to be just flesh and blood beings , there  is so much more to LIFE AND LOVE than this world of woes ..
But we are learning to be spiritual beings  and we know that even evil spiritual beings have its place in Gods plan  , they cannot prevail forever  , right ?

We learn though evil what is good and right  and pleasing to GOD /LOVE .     a tool of opposition and adversity and correction that beats us down  to size ..  the humbled one admitting defeat ,I was wrong in thinking that .....

  Lord I cannot do this on my own strength or power , You do what is best for us all .

If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

James 4:6
But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, ?God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.?

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,

Matthew 23:12
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

James 4:10
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Proverbs 3:34
Toward the scorners he is scornful, but to the humble he gives favor.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, ?I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[rosered]

22Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom,?

Thank you for that!


This is a great passage.
What is your understanding of this passage?

   After all that lol , this simple truth maybe ............
  I am an overthinker !!!!   sorry about that .

  When God gave them His Word they become prideful in their knowledge

and abused its power ,and  did not apply it to themselves   , the Law is a mirror  to observe what man you are 

I believe the greeks  had already been humbled by their own ways and life's choices and was ready for the TRUTH to set them free

[rosered]

 

  Thank you for sharing brother  , love the many perspectives  of seeing things !!  you have a good perspective on that passage .
  I find them  amazing  when everyone shares . most helpful , and  a lifting up of sorts

[GodIsLove]

I think the plain reading of the Bible without looking into translations and doctrinal influence would lead people to fall into 3 categories:
Eternal hell
Annihilation
Universal reconciliation

Which is why we have these 3 interpretations. Just showing the Bible verses is futile because of bias and doctrine and previous beliefs.

I found the truth of UR via an answer to a prayer, yes it was via scripture but it was only after my seeking and God answering did I get the truth.

So I think bible and personal revelation go hand in hand and both are needed for the truth.

If you re-read what I wrote that is is exactly what I said...Looking into what the scriptures 'actually' say rather than base our 'beliefs' on what we 'think' it says.  (Which means research and study of the original (God breathed) intent behind the meanings) and forsaking any 'traditions' or 'bias' which you say everyone here has.

Quote

Everyone on here is biases toward their own beliefs and interpretations

I don't believe that everyone on here is biased. - Anyone seeking truth has to forsake their own biases and 'lean not on their own understanding' etc. 
I am not sure how you meant this, (though I am certain you didn't mean it in a 'bad' way whatsoever), of that I AM sure.
But ... It was 'non bias' that brought me to God...Trusting Him (truth) when the whole world was telling me 'hell' etc, (which sounds like the same sort of experience you had).
If someone is bias towards the scriptures then they oppose them and can't be trusted as they are 'biased' and thus not seeking things of God but things of themselves. 
Indeed 'bias' is simply 'unbelief' (not trusting God) (enough). 
We must always be open to the truth...
And no matter what anyone else says one CAN 'know' the truth.  Jesus promised that.
...People who doubt are like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind as James records. 
Doubting 'truth' is doubting God.

The fundamentals 'should' be well established.  Yes there are things we 'see dimly', but 'truths' are truth and should be accepted as such.

Of course the 'Spirit bears witness'... I agree with you completely...(Because it's scriptural)... And because it goes without saying since the Spirit IS truth... We 'know' when we are deliberately lying to ourselves/others etc. 

Please consider what I say and I pray God grants you understanding of what I mean here and I will pray also for my own understanding if I have missed anything or misunderstood in any way as we all have pieces of the puzzles so to speak seeing that God is all and all is thus 'God'. 
Remembering this - that doing harm to another would be only harming ourselves and thusly doing injustice to very 'God' we claim to worship.
Without love 'we are nothing' and so I write in love and would like what I write to be received in that way.

Lots of love to you.

I guess I was just making the distinction that the spirit of God is needed for the truth, because reading the Bible, people can come away with a lot of conflicting beliefs.

The bias I am talking about is not negative, I just mean that everyone views everything through a lens. The lens is their cultural experiences, their life experience, their previously held beliefs, etc. I even believe that God?s guidance can be different for each person based on their individuality and each person needs on their walk. So, like the parable of the blind men and the elephant, all of us on Tentmaker may be describing our individual beliefs about God and they seem to be contradictory but they all may be portions or parts of the whole truth.

An example of bias would be in the first century, the Jews vs the Gentiles and the somewhat different perspectives of Peter and Paul. Or my friend who was raised Pentecostal vs a friend who was raised Catholic and then turned Baptist vs a friend who was raised Jewish and how all 3 of them interpret spiritual matters, the Bible, etc varies.

Yes the big things people can know to be true, I suppose, like: God exists, everything that exists came from and through God, everything will ultimately be reconciled back to God...

But so many details are discussed here, usually civilly and in love, and those details can be up to interpretation and maybe even contradictory views may somehow both be correct.

I like to say I am humble but maybe I am just weak, but I do not have a firm belief on most everything in life, I am prone to questioning, wondering, and yes even doubting. I used to beat myself up about it but right now, subject to change in the future, I am accepting of this about myself. It means I am curious and open, and searching.

I wholeheartedly believe the truth is that there is no eternal hell, God exists and we came from and will return to God, but even those truths get challenged and I waver, and I am ok with that. God is always there whether I am strong or weak, and for now it?s my journey.

I don?t feel any animosity in our exchange and I still very much appreciate your presence here. For a while the website forum was down and then when it finally was back up it seemed like no one was active and I was sad, because this place has been a source of uplifting, and of gaining new insight and also just fellowship, because it?s a lonely road out there for a Christian right now, let alone a Universalist and often I don?t fit anywhere with my views.

So thanks for the exchange, and since this is a print medium, just know that I am never posting on here with any intent for discord. I know you have invited people for a live chat because of the limits of this form of communication but for now, my time for online fellowship is usually typing on my phone for quick moments while I am multitasking homeschooling 3 kids and taking care of the house and other responsibilities, so unfortunately it would be a limited thing. Maybe if we all want to discuss a day and time that works, we could get together here and there and I would be interested in something like that?maybe start a new thread with that in mind?

Love to you and Rose and all others on here as well!

[Ross]

I always have my thoughts of what He shows me through the things in this world. God, using all the physical things in this world and revealing the spiritual implications hidden within each one.

It is because of this, hardly any negativity ever enters into my thoughts.

Amen.

Perfect love casts out all fear.
Knowing Who is actually in control makes everything fall into a logical process.
Even though bad things will come, they will be necessary for the correction of what things to truly value. Why the things seen are temporary and the things not seen are eternal is a useful concept for me.

[GodIsLove]

Ah yikes, I feel the tone of this is going where I would rather not participate. Thanks for taking the time to dialogue though.

Quick points:
I never said the elephant parable was from scripture. Its a story but it illustrates an aspect of human experience. The elephant parable is called that; its called a parable. A parable isnt just a story from Jesus, its  just a simple allegorical story illustrating a moral. Truths can be found in other extrabiblical stories as well.

You are making many assumptions about what I mean, and there are too many to sort out right now.

I dont waver about hell, hell is a silly and irrational idea.

I didnt ask for correction, and though you seem to think you are offering something and are guided by the spirit to do so, I dont discern it as such from my end.

As I said before this medium is tricky to converse through.

Also, the forum guidelines on here specifically ask that things are phrased as I believe and I think...so I am also following the rules of engagement here.

Also, would it be interesting to say that I was also where you are once? Its not always as simple as a linear progression.

[GodIsLove]

I will try to articulate my stance once more, then I?m going to take a break because I don?t like that this conversation has distracted me from my responsibilities and duties for the day.

God is infinite therefore no human mind can comprehend God completely. By default we will all have a portion of the truth. Because we are finite, and God is infinite.

Recognizing the limitations of the human mind, even with the spirit of God within us, is what I am trying to get across.

God is much more patient than humans as well. This need to know the truth and profess it in our finite human lifetimes is impatience and arrogance.

Do you think the infinite can be distilled into a finite book such as the Bible? I hope not. The Bible is beneficial and truthful but not the entirety of truth because it is a finite book. It doesn?t even profess to cover all of the details about the nature of reality, many things are left unsaid. The world is incredibly complex, the universe even more so, and the possibility of other worlds/dimensions/times adds an infinite amount of complexity. If God is infinite then what if creation is also infinite, since we are made by God and therefore of God and in God.

I was once much more sure that I had found the truth and I tried to evangelize others. I didn?t have the truth, I had a sliver of it. The idea is not to have it all figured out on earth, though it?s fun to try. Do you notice how often Jesus didn?t say things, versus when he did? When I said I have doubts I mean questions as to the true nature of reality, the complexity of if that isn?t contained in a book, not small details of Christian doctrine. Most doctrine is man made and therefore the bias I was talking about.

I respect other people?s journeys and I am discouraged when other people don?t offer me the same consideration. It?s hard to not feel misunderstood, and that is the biggest take away from this conversation, the fact that I can?t possibly articulate the lifetime of experiences that brought me to where I am today and neither can you, so we should respect the place each person is at in the moment. So I think you are misunderstanding me because of the limits of the nature of human communication, even more limited via text on a computer. I said this in an earlier post as well.

[rosered]

  I love you GODISLOVE !! 
You  have  taught me many things and love your heart!!! I did not know about the  earth and its divisions to 1/4    that is amazing !

Never loose  that wonder ,

I have had that my whole life and consider it a blessing !!   


Been super busy today  and seen this  and it makes me wonder what is going on here ???

And sure believe in misunderstandings , it  happens to all of us,  all the time ...