proof of people exiting- leaving the Lake of Fire

[darryl]

non believers in UR often voice the objection that nobody is ever shown to exit the Lake of Fire...I agree that the Bible does not EXPLICITLY show anybody leaving the L. of Fire but I believe it IMPLICITLY does...one of the reasons is the evidence of the 'Nations'....I've been working on a little treatise on it and will venture to present it to you though it's not finished and I've not really had time to proofread it as minutely as I'd like.I hope it's not too laborious a read !.
The word Nations occurs 22 times in Revelation. 1x in connection with believers being given authority over the Nations. 1x in connection with Christ ruling the Nations. 1x in connection with Christ being King of the Nations.1x in connection with Christ striking the Nations.1x in connection with the Saints in Heaven prophesying that all Nations will come and worship Christ. 1x in connection with the eternal gospel being proclaimed to the Nations. 6 times the Nations are mentioned in connection with or in the context of, heaven. 10 times the Nations are mentioned within the context of antagonism and enmity toward Christ, on EARTH. The extraordinary fact is EVERY time the Nations are mentioned in terms of their actions on EARTH, it is within the context of antagonism and enmity toward Christ. The last act of hostility toward God the Nations carry out is in Revelation 20:9. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

The Nations of the earth are devoured, TOTALLY wiped out annihilated by Fire. Gone from the earth. We hear no more of the Nations till Revelation 21:24 speaking of the New Jerusalem, the nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendour into it. There is no mention at all of the Nations accepting Christ and repenting before being destroyed between Rev 20:9 and Rev 21:4. As these are wicked nations we must assume they were cast into the Lake of Fire, yet we see them walking in the Holy City, the New Jerusalem.

One might raise the objection that these Nations walking in the New Jerusalem are prior righteous Nations not hitherto mentioned in Revelation but this is reading something into the text that is not there.There is no mention whatever of any righteous Nations existing on the earth during the period described in the Book of Revelation before the total destruction of the Nations in Rev 20 :9.ALL the nations mentioned that are existing on the earth are described in very negative terms.

The inescapable conclusion is that these righteous Nations walking in the New Jerusalem are the same that were so rebellious and antagonistic toward God earlier in the Book of Revelation.

It is my view that these wicked  Nations have been cast into the Lake of Fire and have exited it and entered the New Jerusalem. In my opinion, the above is compelling evidence of human beings exiting the Lake of Fire.

[darryl]

may I add that Nations in the Bible are not blocks of land, grass, mountains, lakes, beaches, trees, meadows, fields etc.No, the word  nations designates people, human beings..nations = masses of human beings...people  living/ existing in geographical areas.

[WhiteWings]

Many read Revelation roughly as follows.
Christ returns. Big war. Christ wins. Saints live with Christ in New Jerusalem. All others are doomed.

But then ask yourself these questions:

a]
Rev 22:2 It flowed down the center of the main street. On each side of the river grew a tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, with a fresh crop each month. The leaves were used for medicine to heal the nations.
How can nations be healed when they already eternally doomed?

b]
How can nations even exist if Christ totally annilated them during His war against evil?

c]
Rev 21:6 And he also said, ?It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega?the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give freely from the springs of the water of life.

It's finished. In mainstream Christianity that means Christ has placed some in heaven and all others in hell. Eternally.
But who is going to dring from the water of Life? The very reason the saints are already in New Jerusalem is that they (long ago) did drink from that spring.
So after the 'finished' Christ still converts people.

d]
The end of the Bible is found in 1Cor not in Rev

First of all I would like to show that Revelation not in every sense the last book of the Bible.
In 1Corinthians 15:22-28, we have:
No more rule
No more authority
No more power
No more enemies - 26 the last enemy is done away--death;
No more reigning - 24  then--the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power
All subjected  - 25 For he must needs reign, until he shall put all his enemies under his feet :
No more death - 26 the last enemy is done away--death ;
All made alive, immortal (1Co 15:22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

In Revelation we have:
Still rule -20:6; 22:5
Son still reigns -22:1-5; 21:5
Authority -21:24-25
Power -21:24-25; 22:2
Kings -21:24-26
Saints reign -22:5
Second death still exists -21:8
The nations still mortal -22:2


d]
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2020&version=NKJV
Possibly there is a 1000 years between Rev and the above quoted verses of 2Cor
New Jerusalem signals the start of Christ's 1000 year reign together with His saints.

Another hint can be found in this verse: 1Cor 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
I Christ return, fights a massive war, is victiorious, then there is nothing left to submit. Then there are just 2 groups. The victorious and the defeated.
The submission happens during His reign. I don't think being victious on the battlefield qualifies as 'reign'.
So could that submission take many years and during that time gradually pagans come to drink the living water and eat from the tree mentioned under a]

e]
Finally, LoF is a description of a crubicle.

[jugghead]

I remember reading somewhere that the book of Revelation was a prophesy of what the mind of men would turn Christ into,

like White Wings said:
Christ returns. Big war. Christ wins. Saints live with Christ in New Jerusalem. All others are doomed.

It stuck with me because when I saw the mind of the world as one of competition, winners and losers, I didn't see that as from God

I myself do not view God's plan as those who win and those who lose, I view God's plan as those who understand and those who don't understand, because those who don't still have a mind of competition

and this all relates to how this world thinks ... those who go to heaven are winners and those who go to hell are losers
rather then understanding as:
those who are given light (understanding) and those who still do not understand (remain in darkness)

which by the way, if you view the Lake of Fire as understanding that consumes, (whether it be of God or of men) people are able to leave it

my  :2c:

[darryl]

I remember reading somewhere that the book of Revelation was a prophesy of what the mind of men would turn Christ into,

like White Wings said:
Christ returns. Big war. Christ wins. Saints live with Christ in New Jerusalem. All others are doomed.

It stuck with me because when I saw the mind of the world as one of competition, winners and losers, I didn't see that as from God

I myself do not view God's plan as those who win and those who lose, I view God's plan as those who understand and those who don't understand, because those who don't still have a mind of competition

and this all relates to how this world thinks ... those who go to heaven are winners and those who go to hell are losers
rather then understanding as:
those who are given light (understanding) and those who still do not understand (remain in darkness)

which by the way, if you view the Lake of Fire as understanding that consumes, (whether it be of God or of men) people are able to leave it

my  :2c:

good post !...thanks, Jugghead !

[darryl]

Many read Revelation roughly as follows.
Christ returns. Big war. Christ wins. Saints live with Christ in New Jerusalem. All others are doomed.

But then ask yourself these questions:

a]
Rev 22:2 It flowed down the center of the main street. On each side of the river grew a tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, with a fresh crop each month. The leaves were used for medicine to heal the nations.
How can nations be healed when they already eternally doomed?

b]
How can nations even exist if Christ totally annilated them during His war against evil?

c]
Rev 21:6 And he also said, ?It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega?the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give freely from the springs of the water of life.

It's finished. In mainstream Christianity that means Christ has placed some in heaven and all others in hell. Eternally.
But who is going to dring from the water of Life? The very reason the saints are already in New Jerusalem is that they (long ago) did drink from that spring.
So after the 'finished' Christ still converts people.

d]
The end of the Bible is found in 1Cor not in Rev

First of all I would like to show that Revelation not in every sense the last book of the Bible.
In 1Corinthians 15:22-28, we have:
No more rule
No more authority
No more power
No more enemies - 26 the last enemy is done away--death;
No more reigning - 24  then--the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power
All subjected  - 25 For he must needs reign, until he shall put all his enemies under his feet :
No more death - 26 the last enemy is done away--death ;
All made alive, immortal (1Co 15:22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

In Revelation we have:
Still rule -20:6; 22:5
Son still reigns -22:1-5; 21:5
Authority -21:24-25
Power -21:24-25; 22:2
Kings -21:24-26
Saints reign -22:5
Second death still exists -21:8
The nations still mortal -22:2


d]
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2020&version=NKJV
Possibly there is a 1000 years between Rev and the above quoted verses of 2Cor
New Jerusalem signals the start of Christ's 1000 year reign together with His saints.

Another hint can be found in this verse: 1Cor 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
I Christ return, fights a massive war, is victiorious, then there is nothing left to submit. Then there are just 2 groups. The victorious and the defeated.
The submission happens during His reign. I don't think being victious on the battlefield qualifies as 'reign'.
So could that submission take many years and during that time gradually pagans come to drink the living water and eat from the tree mentioned under a]

e]
Finally, LoF is a description of a crubicle.

great stuff here !..some things I never realized !.thanks, WhiteWings !

[CHB]

I personally think the "lake of fire" is not a literal burning fire, I think it is a spiritual fire. The reason I think this is, death and hell, {grave} were cast into it. I also think the second death is a spiritual death. We have a literal birth and a spiritual birth, stands to reason we would have a spiritual death and a literal death.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

CHB,
I think nobody is really spiritual dead. It's more that the spirit is (severely) blocked by all kind of carnal things/behavior. Even so much that perhaps it can be called dead.

The Bible speaks about we being refined as gold. The description of LoF is identical to how refining gold works in the natural world.
In the refiners furnace impurities are separated from the gold.  Those impurities are 'bad behavior' that silences the spirit.
So in LoF sin/carnal nature dies, and because of that the spirit gets a voice again.

So imo, LoF is the liberation of the spirit.

[Lazarus Short]

Keep in mind that the Fire which devours the nations in the Revelation, chapter 20 is...

...Godfire.

It is the Fire of God, Who kills AND makes alive.  Yes, it devours the nations, but it also refines them as gold, until the Refiner can see His reflection in the molten metal as He pulls off the slag, aka, dross, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble.

[jugghead]

CHB,
I think nobody is really spiritual dead. It's more that the spirit is (severely) blocked by all kind of carnal things/behavior. Even so much that perhaps it can be called dead.

The Bible speaks about we being refined as gold. The description of LoF is identical to how refining gold works in the natural world.
In the refiners furnace impurities are separated from the gold.  Those impurities are 'bad behavior' that silences the spirit.
So in LoF sin/carnal nature dies, and because of that the spirit gets a voice again.

So imo, LoF is the liberation of the spirit.

I agree  :thumbsup:

[Andrew]

Posted by Daryl

"The inescapable conclusion is that these righteous Nations walking in the New Jerusalem are the same that were so rebellious and antagonistic toward God earlier in the Book of Revelation."

You're theory reminded me of this verse

Mathew 13 42

42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

As some have suggested that in this verse those thrown in the furnace then become the righteous?

[jugghead]

As some have suggested that in this verse those thrown in the furnace then become the righteous?

I can definitely see that

[CHB]

When I said spiritual death I meant the kind of death Paul talked about. For instance, being dead in Christ. (Rom. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.  Verse 11 says, "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." If Christ is in us we have passed from death unto life. I think this is the second death. I believe that is why some won't be hurt by the second death, the ones that have Christ in them.

Just my thoughts though.

CHB